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For Christians-Evangelicalism, what's your take on it?

Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Junglej25 said:
Depends on the doctrine. I've long forgotten the reason why Mormonism is considered heretical by Evangelicalism. I pulled this off of OrthodoxWiki. Is this accurate about your beliefs?

"A major pillar of Mormon belief is their concept of deification, which they refer to as the "Doctrine of Eternal Progression." In opposition to the Trinitarian dogmas of the First and Second Ecumenical Councils, Mormons believe that God the Father, whom they refer to as "Elohim"[4] or "Heavenly Father," was originally a flesh-and-blood human being, who was spiritually "begotten" by another "god" (and his "godess" wife) and then physically born on another planet (not Earth). "Elohim" lived a normal human life, and by embracing his world's version of Mormonism, he "progressed" to become the "god" he is today.[5]
Having attained to "godhood," this "Elohim" and his wife were enabled to create and populate their own universe--namely, ours--with spiritual offspring who, by coming to earth and taking on human flesh, embracing and fully living the Mormon religion, and "enduring to the end," could themselves acquire "godhood," where they in turn could begin this process anew. It should be noted that this LDS doctrine of "pre-existence" of spirits, by which we all are alleged to have existed "spiritually" in heaven prior to our birth on this earth, was specifically condemned by the Fifth Ecumenical Council."

For a casual observer, this may seem similar to the Church's teaching of theosis, but this is most emphatically not so:
First, there is a definite distinction in the Church between God and mankind, between the Creator and His Creation. God is eternal, and existed for eternity prior to (and entirely separate from) His creation (which, unlike its Creator, is not eternal), until the incarnation of the pre-eternal Word of God, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, as Our Lord Jesus Christ. This was a unique union between God and His creation, which never existed before. Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that only matter and intelligence are truly eternal (not God), and that all of their "gods" essentially "evolved" in the same fashion, from physical matter.Second, the Orthodox Church clearly teaches that the Most Holy Trinity has always existed precisely as one God: "the Trinity, One in Essence, and Undivided." Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in "purpose" only, and most emphatically not one in essence or hypostasis (as the Orthodox Church teaches). They are three "gods," say the Mormons, and not "one" in anything except a common purpose and mindset. Furthermore, say they, there are potentially billions of "gods" beyond the three they acknowledge as belonging to this world. All of this is diametrically opposed to Orthodox Christian teaching.Third, Theosis is a unification between God and mankind, not the creation of an entirely separate deity (or dieties).Mormonism's designation by Orthodoxy as being "heretical"--instead of "heterodox," as is the case with the Roman Catholic and most major Protestant faiths--stems primarily from their spurious doctrines on the Holy Trinity and the nature of God, together with various other specious beliefs.
Mormons have a very difficult time understanding why Orthodox and other Christians deny that they are Christian. The simplest answer to this question is that the Mormon god is simply not God--at least not the God worshipped by Orthodox Christians (and other Trinitarians). This does not mean that the Mormons are necessarily immoral or wicked people, simply that they worship a god completely dissimilar from the Christian Trinity. "
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You covered a lot there. Some of what you quoted is accurate (e.g. we really do believe it). Some of it is absolutely false. Some of it falls somewhere in the middle. I'd welcome a respectful dialogue on the specifics of what we really believe as opposed to what those outside our faith seem to think we believe, but this thread probably wouldn't be the best place for that to happen. It would take us completely off the topic of the OP. I realize this is your thread, though, so its your call.
 
Katzpur

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Junglej25 said:
Of course he CLAIMS he's teaching the "true" message of Christ which usually translates to teaching that Jesus was a good man but he wasn't God, wasn't sinless, didn't atone for sin, and/or didn't demand repentance.
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For the record, Mormons believe that Jesus was God (though not the same individual as His Father), that He was sinless, that He did atone for our sins, and that He did demand repentance.

You might ask why we make such a big deal about silly doctrines so long as one is a "good person"? Because we believe it's through the blood of Jesus that we find forgiveness. Being "good" isn't good enough. Without the blood of Jesus one would have to be perfect to not need forgiveness.
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I can't argue with that.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Katzpur said:
For the record, Mormons believe that Jesus was God (though not the same individual as His Father), that He was sinless, that He did atone for our sins, and that He did demand repentance.

I can't argue with that.
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More precisely "Jesus is [a] God?" I mean to say that LDS affirms with other Christians that Jesus is alive?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Katzpur said:
Absolutely. The Bible describes Him as sitting at the right hand of His Father. Thanks for picking up on some poor wording on my part.
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It's not poor wording. I just wanted to ask because I couldn't remember.
 
JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Junglej25 said:
Translation: your comment was baseless
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Translation, you got nothing to say so you make an excuse up for it lol. Wasn't baseless. I told you an evangelical belief that was heretical. You want me to name out every heretical belief? That would take a bit since I would have to describe every single belief that is common such as sola scriptura, sola gratia, tulip, osas, etc

Evangelicals are just as much heretics as the Judaizers were in Acts
 
-Peacemaker-

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
JacobEzra said:
Translation, you got nothing to say so you make an excuse up for it lol. Wasn't baseless. I told you an evangelical belief that was heretical. You want me to name out every heretical belief? That would take a bit since I would have to describe every single belief that is common such as sola scriptura, sola gratia, tulip, osas, etc

Evangelicals are just as much heretics as the Judaizers were in Acts
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WTF are you talking about? Maybe I missed the heresy in your post below. Let me guess, is OSAS supposed to be your way of communicating an example of heresy? You also might want to learn the definitions of "heretical" and heterodox" and "ordothox" if you're under the impression sola scriptura and sola gratia are heresies. I also have no idea what "tulip" is supposed to mean.

"As in what is heretical? Many things. Its not as easy to mention since evangelicals all differ from church to church on what they belief. A heresy, OSAS."
__________________
 
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sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Junglej25 said:
I get that some Christians don't believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. what is the foundation of that belief and what compass do these people use to determine where the errors are?

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him."
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First of all, most Christians don't believe in the inerrancy of scripture.

Second, the foundation of that belief is simply historic: Nobody believed that until the Protestant Reformation. We have 1500 years of history, theology and tradition to prove otherwise.

Third, the compass that is used is the process of scholarly exegesis.

Fourth, when Proverbs says "word of God," it's not talking about the Bible.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
doppelgänger;2655196 said:
Evangelical Christianity, speaking from my personal experience, seems to foster arrogance, disrespect for others, and stagnates emotional, intellectual and spiritual growth because it roots all of one's development in a myopic single moment and doesn't fairly acknowledge the process that underlies ego development and its shadow (theology).
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I think the term you're looking for is entitlement.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
JacobEzra said:
CC is the original ;)
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BZZZZZZT! Thanks for playing. The RCC was formed with the Great Schism, with the mutual excommunications of the bishop of Rome and the patriarch of Constantinople. Until then, it was merely, "the Church."
 
JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Junglej25 said:
WTF are you talking about? Maybe I missed the heresy in your post below. Let me guess, is OSAS supposed to be your way of communicating an example of heresy? You also might want to learn the definitions of "heretical" and heterodox" and "ordothox" if you're under the impression sola scriptura and sola gratia are heresies. I also have no idea what "tulip" is supposed to mean.

"As in what is heretical? Many things. Its not as easy to mention since evangelicals all differ from church to church on what they belief. A heresy, OSAS."
__________________
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Osas- once saved always saved, a very evengelical belief. Completely false and heretical. Clearly fits the definition of heretical. Tulip, calvinist
Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
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Completely false and heretical. Sola Scriptura is completely false, since there has always been a living tradition in Christianity. What is so hard to understand in my post? Oh wait, I forgot I am talking with an evangelical.

​
 
JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
sojourner said:
BZZZZZZT! Thanks for playing. The RCC was formed with the Great Schism, with the mutual excommunications of the bishop of Rome and the patriarch of Constantinople. Until then, it was merely, "the Church."
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RCC was not formed. It was a continuation after the schism between the east and west. Just liek the EO was not formed. They were already there.
 
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