For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[Deeje]

The jury seems to be out on this question among those who identify as Christians.....so was the flood a real event or was it just a dramatized myth with a message?

God commanded Noah: “Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree.”—Genesis 6:14.

Some might be familiar with children's storybook illustrations like this...

But what is exactly is an ark?

This ark was not a ship, as some assume. It had neither bow nor stern, keel nor rudder—no bends or curves. It was basically a great chest, or box.

More like this....

God gave Noah the precise dimensions of the ark, some details regarding its design, and directions to coat it inside and out with tar. And he told Noah why: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth . . . Everything that is in the earth will expire.” However, Jehovah gave this direction to Noah: “You must go into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.” Noah was also to bring representatives of all kinds of animals. Only those aboard the ark could survive the coming Deluge!—Genesis 6:17-20.

Have we ever stopped to imagine the size of this vessel?
This replica built to Biblical specifications gives us some idea....

Noah faced a gigantic task. This ark was to be enormous—some 437 feet (133 m) long, 73 feet (22 m) wide, and 44 feet (13 m) tall. It was far larger than the largest seagoing wooden ships built even in modern times. Did Noah back off from this assignment, complain about its challenges, or alter the details to make it easier on himself? The Bible answers: “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.”—Genesis 6:22.

The work took decades, perhaps 40 to 50 years. There were trees to fell, logs to haul, and beams to hew, shape, and join. The ark was to have three stories, or decks, a number of compartments, and a door in the side. Evidently, there were windows along the top, as well as a roof that likely peaked in the middle with a slight pitch so that water would run off.—Genesis 6:14-16.

On completion of this assignment God told Noah....“Go, you and all your household, into the ark.” At the same time, God told Noah to take all the varieties of animals into the ark—by sevens in the case of the clean ones, fit for sacrificial use, and the rest by twos.—Genesis 7:1-3.

It is assumed by many that just two of every animas that God brought to Noah went on board the ark, but animals designated as "clean" (i.e. suitable for sacrifice and later for food) were taken in by sevens. That was three breeding pairs and one for sacrifice (which is what Noah did upon disembarking from the ark to thank his God for preserving his family alive through such a cataclysmic event.)

It must have been an unforgettable sight. From the horizon they streamed in by the hundreds—walking, flying, crawling, waddling, lumbering—all in a dizzying variety of sizes, shapes, and dispositions. We need not imagine poor Noah trying to corral, wrangle, or somehow cajole all those wild animals into entering the confined space of the ark. The account says that “they went in . . . to Noah inside the ark.”—Genesis 7:9.

And since dinosaurs were long extinct before man came on the scene, there were no dinosaurs on the ark.

Some skeptics might ask: ‘How could such a thing happen? And how could all those animals coexist peacefully in a confined space?’ Consider this: Is it really beyond the power of the Creator of the universe to control his animal creations, even render them tame and docile if needed? Remember, Jehovah is the God who parted the Red Sea and made the sun stand still. Could he not carry out every event described in Noah’s account?

Excerpts from 2013 WATCHTOWER. Pics from Google

 

[Grandliseur]

The jury seems to be out on this question among those who identify as Christians.....so was the flood a real event or was it just a dramatized myth with a message?

God commanded Noah: “Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree.”—Genesis 6:14.

Some might be familiar with children's storybook illustrations like this...

But what is exactly is an ark?

This ark was not a ship, as some assume. It had neither bow nor stern, keel nor rudder—no bends or curves. It was basically a great chest, or box.

More like this....

God gave Noah the precise dimensions of the ark, some details regarding its design, and directions to coat it inside and out with tar. And he told Noah why: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth . . . Everything that is in the earth will expire.” However, Jehovah gave this direction to Noah: “You must go into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.” Noah was also to bring representatives of all kinds of animals. Only those aboard the ark could survive the coming Deluge!—Genesis 6:17-20.

Have we ever stopped to imagine the size of this vessel?
This replica built to Biblical specifications gives us some idea....

Noah faced a gigantic task. This ark was to be enormous—some 437 feet (133 m) long, 73 feet (22 m) wide, and 44 feet (13 m) tall. It was far larger than the largest seagoing wooden ships built even in modern times. Did Noah back off from this assignment, complain about its challenges, or alter the details to make it easier on himself? The Bible answers: “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.”—Genesis 6:22.

The work took decades, perhaps 40 to 50 years. There were trees to fell, logs to haul, and beams to hew, shape, and join. The ark was to have three stories, or decks, a number of compartments, and a door in the side. Evidently, there were windows along the top, as well as a roof that likely peaked in the middle with a slight pitch so that water would run off.—Genesis 6:14-16.

On completion of this assignment God told Noah....“Go, you and all your household, into the ark.” At the same time, God told Noah to take all the varieties of animals into the ark—by sevens in the case of the clean ones, fit for sacrificial use, and the rest by twos.—Genesis 7:1-3.

It is assumed by many that just two of every animas that God brought to Noah went on board the ark, but animals designated as "clean" (i.e. suitable for sacrifice and later for food) were taken in by sevens. That was three breeding pairs and one for sacrifice (which is what Noah did upon disembarking from the ark to thank his God for preserving his family alive through such a cataclysmic event.)

It must have been an unforgettable sight. From the horizon they streamed in by the hundreds—walking, flying, crawling, waddling, lumbering—all in a dizzying variety of sizes, shapes, and dispositions. We need not imagine poor Noah trying to corral, wrangle, or somehow cajole all those wild animals into entering the confined space of the ark. The account says that “they went in . . . to Noah inside the ark.”—Genesis 7:9.

And since dinosaurs were long extinct before man came on the scene, there were no dinosaurs on the ark.

Some skeptics might ask: ‘How could such a thing happen? And how could all those animals coexist peacefully in a confined space?’ Consider this: Is it really beyond the power of the Creator of the universe to control his animal creations, even render them tame and docile if needed? Remember, Jehovah is the God who parted the Red Sea and made the sun stand still. Could he not carry out every event described in Noah’s account?

Excerpts from 2013 WATCHTOWER. Pics from Google

There is a good video about the ark. You should look at it though not all things may be agreed upon. Pay especially attention to the part after min 38 nearly from 39. Here you see what seems to be the best theory for the ark and how it dealt with its size and waves.

This website is overrun by atheists, you will not get much positive feedback from them. I hope they don't kill this video. It is one of the best about this subject.

 

[Skwim]

Consider.

"An ABC News poll released Sunday [2-15-04] found that 61 percent of Americans believe the account of creation in the Bible’s book of Genesis is “literally true” rather than a story meant as a “lesson.”

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.'
source
​

In 2012 79% of US population was comprised of Christians and Jews.
So, in as much it's fair to assume that the only people who believe in the Flood story are Christians and Jews, there's a direct correspondence between the 60% and it's sole representation of Christians and Jews meaning that 76% of Christians and Jews believe in the Flood: OR About 74% of Christians believe the Flood story ( Christians comprise 97% of the Christian-Jewish population. )

.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Consider.

"An ABC News poll released Sunday [2-15-04] found that 61 percent of Americans believe the account of creation in the Bible’s book of Genesis is “literally true” rather than a story meant as a “lesson.”

Sixty percent believe in the story of Noah’s ark and a global flood, while 64 percent agree that Moses parted the Red Sea to save fleeing Jews from their Egyptian captors.'
source
In 2012 79% of US population was comprised of Christians and Jews.
So, in as much it's fair to assume that the only people who believe in the Flood story are Christians and Jews, there's a direct correspondence between the 60% and it's sole representation of Christians and Jews meaning that 76% of Christians and Jews believe in the Flood: OR About 74% of Christians believe the Flood story ( Christians comprise 97% of the Christian-Jewish population. )

.

In the western Christian countries I doubt if there is any other country that comes close to the U.S.'s rate of taking the Bible literally. Nat Geo had an article once where they compared what percentage accepted evolution:

Evolution Less Accepted in U.S. Than Other Western Countries, Study Finds

It did not specifically mention the flood story, but rates of acceptance should be similar. Iceland was tops with roughly 90% accepting evolution. At that time the country was still mostly Christian.

Belief in the Ark story appears to be dwindling worldwide.

 

[Deeje]

This website is overrun by atheists, you will not get much positive feedback from them. I hope they don't kill this video. It is one of the best about this subject.

The thread is in Interfaith Discussion and is addressed to Christians. We are not inviting input from atheists.
So here's hoping that we can keep it as a discussion between people of faith.

Ooops too late.

 

[Grandliseur]

Ooops too late.

This place has more atheists per area than there is sand on a beach per square meter. Ooops too late indeed.

 

[Ingledsva]

The thread is in Interfaith Discussion and is addressed to Christians. We are not inviting input from atheists.
So here's hoping that we can keep it as a discussion between people of faith.

Ooops too late.

Why?

There are older flood stories with people and animals being saved.

It is probably a historic memory of a lesser scale, but very damaging, flood in that area.

*

 

[Deeje]

*Mod post* Just a reminder, this area is a discusson area only. Proceeding with debates in a discussion area may lead to moderating or moving the thread to one of the debate sections. *Mod post*

Since I have no desire to debate, but just to discuss with other Christians about this topic, I would appreciate it not being moved. Thank you ADA.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why?

There are older flood stories with people and animals being saved.

It is probably a historic memory of a lesser scale, but very damaging, flood in that area.

*

Yep, probably:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth

 

[Windwalker]

Your question is the problem. It's not "just" a myth. A good mythology has meaning, even if the events spoken about never actually occurred in history. The story conveys meaning, so it's a myth. That doesn't mean the story is useless because there was no actual boat, or a Noah, or actual flood of the earth. Same with the story of Adam and Eve. It's a great myth that speaks many truths, through its fictional characters. This is the way a great many Christians think about these stories.

And by the way, who is the "jury" in this comment of yours, "The jury seems to be out on this question among those who identify as Christians." Is it you playing judge with other Christians? I don't think the jury is out for them.

 

[Father Heathen]

God must be a liar.

Or rather those who presumed to speak on God's behalf (those who authored scripture) are liars (or simply mistaken due to being ignorant primitives.)

 

[Windwalker]

If one is informed one cannot believe the flood story unless one believes that God can lie. So to me the important question is "Can God lie"?

Why did you conclude that as an answer to the fact that there was no actual flood as in the Noah's Ark myth? Couldn't you just add a more reasonable conclusion that the story was a creation of human imagination, folklore handed down to the various generations of children in tribal villages in a pre-scientific world? Why leap to "God lies"? You realize the idea that God wrote the Bible is itself a mythology, like Noah's Ark, the Garden of Eden, the Exodus, etc?

 

[idav]

When I was a kid growing up as a Catholic I was taught the flood was real. Then in the playground as children we would talk about "common knowledge" that fish are even found in the desert when you go digging giving credence to a global flood story. I needed evidence then and more so now. As a kid that would all be fairly convincing but learned that that want quite how it works. As I learned archeology, paleantology and geology sciences over the years I found that a global flood story that happened in the same period is not accurate. There was actually an ice age and several mass extinctions not just one, and the animals had enough time to evolve every time there was another mass extinction.

 

[Kemosloby]

Real

 

[DennisTate]

If that is the way you want to judge the matter, then what more can be said to convince you? If you've already made up your mind then what possible explanation would suffice? God must be a liar.

The fact that the Flood really occurred is verified by a number of Bible writers. (Isaiah 54:9; 2Peter 3:5, 6; Hebrews 11:7) The strongest evidence, however, is the testimony of Jesus Christ himself, who was an eyewitness in the heavens. (Compare John 8:58.) He pointedly said: “In the days of Noah, . . . the flood arrived and destroyed them all.”—Luke 17:26, 27.

The account of the Flood is far more than a story. Jesus Christ indicated that it has prophetic significance. In his prophecy about “the conclusion of the system of things,” he made specific reference to “the days of Noah.” He pointed to the Flood as a warning example of a greater destruction to come during “the presence of the Son of man.”—Matthew 24:3, 37-39.

The fact that ancient people from six continents and islands have hundreds of flood legends is a good enough reason for me to believe that there was indeed a great flood in ancient times, upon which all these legends are based.

I personally feel that I am in no position to rule out the possibility that
aliens loyal to God may have been involved?

Spirituality

"What about beings from other planets, do you think they visit here?

Yes I do. And I think those who have been permitted to cross over into our world have been doing so for a very long time now (for a very important purpose) as Divinely arranged by Heaven. Since my NDE, because of a few things I was shown, it is now my deep belief that some of the more phenomenal events depicted in the Old Testament (such as the Great flood of Noah, the parting of the Red Sea for Moses, the mass explosion of Sodom and Gomorrah, etc) are not only very true, but were moments in time which were orchestrated and performed by beings of a much higher order and intelligence than our own "who may have volunteered their technology and understandings or even sent to help guide and shape a culture within humanity during a pressing time within its development and evolution." (Christian Andreason, chapter 2 of online book)

Daniel 4:17

"This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."

A pretty astonishing UFO event took place over the Temple Mount on January 28, 2011. It was filmed from several directions.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Questions about whether something is true of just a myth are broken at best.

It is not "just" a myth. Rather, it is Myth, perhaps with a historical substrate, that has proven itself in transmission to be an effective vessel of religious ideas.

 

[Sanzbir]

Non-Christian, but yes, I do think that the flood was definitely real.

Many cultures around the world have Flood Stories, but notably there are a ton of flood stories around the Black Sea and neighboring cultures.

The Black Sea was once a basin. We also have evidence that there were civilizations on the basin floor. The waters from the Mediterranean came flooding in and wiped out those civilizations. And all the surrounding cultures now have stories of a world-wide flood because because as far as the survivors knew, a flood spanning the entire world had hit them.

The stories surrounding the flood, I would not trust in their absolute validity.

But as to the flood itself, when every surrounding culture has the story and the Black Sea shows us direct evidence of a massive flood the likes of which none had ever seen before...

You'd have to be uninformed of these things or willingly deceiving yourself to think the Flood part didn't happen. If nothing else in that story, the flood that inspired the stories was very much real.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why did you conclude that as an answer to the fact that there was no actual flood as in the Noah's Ark myth? Couldn't you just add a more reasonable conclusion that the story was a creation of human imagination, folklore handed down to the various generations of children in tribal villages in a pre-scientific world? Why leap to "God lies"? You realize the idea that God wrote the Bible is itself a mythology, like Noah's Ark, the Garden of Eden, the Exodus, etc?

That is my point. People that claim that Noah's Ark must be taken literally are in effect claiming that God lied, whether they realize it or not. I am not the one that is saying that God lied. It is supporters of the Noah's Ark story that are making that claim, whether they realize it or not. That is why most Christians, and practically all serious biblical scholars, do not read Genesis literally. If believers in the Noah's Ark story could see that they were in effect calling God a liar many of them would hopefully change their mind about that belief.

And I am not stating that refuting the Noah's Ark story refutes God. It merely refutes an honest God. Most Christians claim that God is honest so logically they are stating that the story is not to be taken literally.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Non-Christian, but yes, I do think that the flood was definitely real.

Many cultures around the world have Flood Stories, but notably there are a ton of flood stories around the Black Sea and neighboring cultures.

Probably not: see here.

Furthermore, to suggest that Israelite oral folk history was predominantly the result of a speculative event that presumably occurred four to six millennia earlier is a little outlandish and a lot unnecessary given, for example, the spring floods in the Tigris/Euphrates valley.

 

[soulsurvivor]

The jury seems to be out on this question among those who identify as Christians.....so was the flood a real event or was it just a dramatized myth with a message?

God commanded Noah: “Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree.”—Genesis 6:14.

Some might be familiar with children's storybook illustrations like this...

But what is exactly is an ark?

This ark was not a ship, as some assume. It had neither bow nor stern, keel nor rudder—no bends or curves. It was basically a great chest, or box.

More like this....

God gave Noah the precise dimensions of the ark, some details regarding its design, and directions to coat it inside and out with tar. And he told Noah why: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth . . . Everything that is in the earth will expire.” However, Jehovah gave this direction to Noah: “You must go into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.” Noah was also to bring representatives of all kinds of animals. Only those aboard the ark could survive the coming Deluge!—Genesis 6:17-20.

Have we ever stopped to imagine the size of this vessel?
This replica built to Biblical specifications gives us some idea....

Noah faced a gigantic task. This ark was to be enormous—some 437 feet (133 m) long, 73 feet (22 m) wide, and 44 feet (13 m) tall. It was far larger than the largest seagoing wooden ships built even in modern times. Did Noah back off from this assignment, complain about its challenges, or alter the details to make it easier on himself? The Bible answers: “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.”—Genesis 6:22.

The work took decades, perhaps 40 to 50 years. There were trees to fell, logs to haul, and beams to hew, shape, and join. The ark was to have three stories, or decks, a number of compartments, and a door in the side. Evidently, there were windows along the top, as well as a roof that likely peaked in the middle with a slight pitch so that water would run off.—Genesis 6:14-16.

On completion of this assignment God told Noah....“Go, you and all your household, into the ark.” At the same time, God told Noah to take all the varieties of animals into the ark—by sevens in the case of the clean ones, fit for sacrificial use, and the rest by twos.—Genesis 7:1-3.

It is assumed by many that just two of every animas that God brought to Noah went on board the ark, but animals designated as "clean" (i.e. suitable for sacrifice and later for food) were taken in by sevens. That was three breeding pairs and one for sacrifice (which is what Noah did upon disembarking from the ark to thank his God for preserving his family alive through such a cataclysmic event.)

It must have been an unforgettable sight. From the horizon they streamed in by the hundreds—walking, flying, crawling, waddling, lumbering—all in a dizzying variety of sizes, shapes, and dispositions. We need not imagine poor Noah trying to corral, wrangle, or somehow cajole all those wild animals into entering the confined space of the ark. The account says that “they went in . . . to Noah inside the ark.”—Genesis 7:9.

And since dinosaurs were long extinct before man came on the scene, there were no dinosaurs on the ark.

Some skeptics might ask: ‘How could such a thing happen? And how could all those animals coexist peacefully in a confined space?’ Consider this: Is it really beyond the power of the Creator of the universe to control his animal creations, even render them tame and docile if needed? Remember, Jehovah is the God who parted the Red Sea and made the sun stand still. Could he not carry out every event described in Noah’s account?

Excerpts from 2013 WATCHTOWER. Pics from Google

The myth of the Great Flood exists in many different religions, not just Judaism and Christianity. So the Flood itself is very likely a true event. The ark on the other hand seems a bit exaggerated - it would have been too big to construct and float and how would the few people (Noah's family?) manage so many animals and where did they get all the animals? Where there any kangaroos for instance?