For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

[TravisW]

Is it possible for something to be both myth and truth?

 

[whirlingmerc]

You don't know the properties of Gopher wood and in general wood grown before the flood is also unknown

Animals lived longer and trees grew longer and everything tended to be bigger as there was a different environment
so the comparison of what is today is not as helpful as you think

People lived 10 times longer, wood then could have been 10 times better
but even in history vast sized barges were made out of wood

 

[metis]

You don't know the properties of Gopher wood and in general wood grown before the flood is also unknown

We don't even know what "gopher wood" is.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You don't know the properties of Gopher wood and in general wood grown before the flood is also unknown

Animals lived longer and trees grew longer and everything tended to be bigger as there was a different environment
so the comparison of what is today is not as helpful as you think

People lived 10 times longer, wood then could have been 10 times better
but even in history vast sized barges were made out of wood

Where can I find evidence for all of these claims?

And if nobody knows what gopher wood is, how can we speculate about building arks with it?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Where can I find evidence for all of these claims?

And if nobody knows what gopher wood is, how can we speculate about building arks with it?

There was a suggestion that it had to be made form iron and I'm saying you don't know the properties of gopher wood

 

[SkepticThinker]

There was a suggestion that it had to be made form iron and I'm saying you don't know the properties of gopher wood

How can you claim anything about the properties of "gopher wood" if you don't even know what it is? Maybe it doesn't even exist at all. I mean, your response to questions about gopher wood contains all kinds of wacky claims about people living much longer in Biblical times, and trees being stronger and bigger in Biblical times, all so you can make the ark story work out. I'd rather follow where the evidence actually leads. And that's away from a massive global flood. Creating ever more outlandish claims is not the same thing as presenting evidence.

Apparently, very large ships that are made from wood tend to have issues with structural stability and strength. Had there actually been an ark and had it been made of wood, it most likely would have buckled and fallen apart under pressure. Unless "gopher wood" is code for "steel" or "iron" or something, I don't think it's good enough.

 

[Muffled]

I believe God did not make it up but was telling Moses about a real event.

 

[Muffled]

Is it possible for something to be both myth and truth?

I believe so but usually thee is no way to verify whether it is or not.

 

[Muffled]

You don't know the properties of Gopher wood and in general wood grown before the flood is also unknown

Animals lived longer and trees grew longer and everything tended to be bigger as there was a different environment
so the comparison of what is today is not as helpful as you think

People lived 10 times longer, wood then could have been 10 times better
but even in history vast sized barges were made out of wood

I believe as a generality that is not true. Only Biblical descendants of Adam lived long lives. Everyone else lived short lives except for the gods who still had eternal life.

 

[whirlingmerc]

I believe as a generality that is not true. Only Biblical descendants of Adam lived long lives. Everyone else lived short lives except for the gods who still had eternal life.

The Hebrew word gopher is used only once in the Bible when God commanded Noah to “make yourself an ark of gopher wood” (Genesis 6:14, ESV), Gopher could also refer to a process such as lamination. In any case a wood or process what instructed by God for the task at hand and not known today. Additionally it was covered with pitch (Genesis 6:14) within and without and that would seal the wood for the task at hand.

Up to the flood, lives were very long and about 900 years and since 'Eve was the mother of all the living' as Genesis says that would include all people.

Note the drop in ages over the centuries

Extrabiblical evidence to support the long life spans of the people in Genesis is found in the Sumerian King List. This list mentions a flood and gives the length of the reigns of kings before and after a flood.

After the flood the life times dropped something like an exponential over the centuries that followed. The air was likely higher in oxygen and high pressure (like used in hyperbaric medicine) (and possibly more mineral rich water and better environment for life) If the catastrophism associated with the flood lowered the magnetic field that could result in a drop in air pressure eventually since the magnetic fields protect the atmosphere from being blown away by solar winds. (sorry Jurassic world but dinosaurs or 4 foot wingspan dragonflies etc.... in our lower pressure air would probably not thrive)

 

[SkepticThinker]

The Hebrew word gopher is used only once in the Bible when God commanded Noah to “make yourself an ark of gopher wood” (Genesis 6:14, ESV), Gopher could also refer to a process such as lamination. In any case a wood or process what instructed by God for the task at hand and not known today. Additionally it was covered with pitch (Genesis 6:14) within and without and that would seal the wood for the task at hand.

Up to the flood, lives were very long and about 900 years and since 'Eve was the mother of all the living' as Genesis says that would include all people.
View attachment 25063 View attachment 25064

Note the drop in ages over the centuries

Extrabiblical evidence to support the long life spans of the people in Genesis is found in the Sumerian King List. This list mentions a flood and gives the length of the reigns of kings before and after a flood.

After the flood the life times dropped something like an exponential over the centuries that followed. The air was likely higher in oxygen and high pressure (like used in hyperbaric medicine) (and possibly more mineral rich water and better environment for life) If the catastrophism associated with the flood lowered the magnetic field that could result in a drop in air pressure eventually since the magnetic fields protect the atmosphere from being blown away by solar winds. (sorry Jurassic world but dinosaurs or 4 foot wingspan dragonflies etc.... in our lower pressure air would probably not thrive)

There is no science to back up any of this. There is no evidence that indicates anybody used to live to be 900 years old. All the evidence points to much shorter average lifespans than we enjoy today.

 

[AdamRaja]

The jury seems to be out on this question among those who identify as Christians.....so was the flood a real event or was it just a dramatized myth with a message?

God commanded Noah: “Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree.”—Genesis 6:14.

Some might be familiar with children's storybook illustrations like this...

But what is exactly is an ark?

This ark was not a ship, as some assume. It had neither bow nor stern, keel nor rudder—no bends or curves. It was basically a great chest, or box.

More like this....

God gave Noah the precise dimensions of the ark, some details regarding its design, and directions to coat it inside and out with tar. And he told Noah why: “Here I am bringing the deluge of waters upon the earth . . . Everything that is in the earth will expire.” However, Jehovah gave this direction to Noah: “You must go into the ark, you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you.” Noah was also to bring representatives of all kinds of animals. Only those aboard the ark could survive the coming Deluge!—Genesis 6:17-20.

Have we ever stopped to imagine the size of this vessel?
This replica built to Biblical specifications gives us some idea....

Noah faced a gigantic task. This ark was to be enormous—some 437 feet (133 m) long, 73 feet (22 m) wide, and 44 feet (13 m) tall. It was far larger than the largest seagoing wooden ships built even in modern times. Did Noah back off from this assignment, complain about its challenges, or alter the details to make it easier on himself? The Bible answers: “Noah proceeded to do according to all that God had commanded him. He did just so.”—Genesis 6:22.

The work took decades, perhaps 40 to 50 years. There were trees to fell, logs to haul, and beams to hew, shape, and join. The ark was to have three stories, or decks, a number of compartments, and a door in the side. Evidently, there were windows along the top, as well as a roof that likely peaked in the middle with a slight pitch so that water would run off.—Genesis 6:14-16.

On completion of this assignment God told Noah....“Go, you and all your household, into the ark.” At the same time, God told Noah to take all the varieties of animals into the ark—by sevens in the case of the clean ones, fit for sacrificial use, and the rest by twos.—Genesis 7:1-3.

It is assumed by many that just two of every animas that God brought to Noah went on board the ark, but animals designated as "clean" (i.e. suitable for sacrifice and later for food) were taken in by sevens. That was three breeding pairs and one for sacrifice (which is what Noah did upon disembarking from the ark to thank his God for preserving his family alive through such a cataclysmic event.)

It must have been an unforgettable sight. From the horizon they streamed in by the hundreds—walking, flying, crawling, waddling, lumbering—all in a dizzying variety of sizes, shapes, and dispositions. We need not imagine poor Noah trying to corral, wrangle, or somehow cajole all those wild animals into entering the confined space of the ark. The account says that “they went in . . . to Noah inside the ark.”—Genesis 7:9.

And since dinosaurs were long extinct before man came on the scene, there were no dinosaurs on the ark.

Some skeptics might ask: ‘How could such a thing happen? And how could all those animals coexist peacefully in a confined space?’ Consider this: Is it really beyond the power of the Creator of the universe to control his animal creations, even render them tame and docile if needed? Remember, Jehovah is the God who parted the Red Sea and made the sun stand still. Could he not carry out every event described in Noah’s account?

Excerpts from 2013 WATCHTOWER. Pics from Google

In Islam the flood is taught. A flood has records back to ancient texts about Annunaki as well.
Science has shown there is a small region that did indeed have a huge flood but I couldn't speak to if it is the same one.
I myself take from the Quran and other sources with depth of meaning. So, to me it'd be neat if it indeed take place but ultimately the story is there for a much better understanding. If you read a book with a golf ball size consciousness you'll have a golf ball understanding.. but read with a basketball size understanding the meaning becomes larger.

 

[Deeje]

Greetings....

In Islam the flood is taught. A flood has records back to ancient texts about Annunaki as well.
Science has shown there is a small region that did indeed have a huge flood but I couldn't speak to if it is the same one.
I myself take from the Quran and other sources with depth of meaning. So, to me it'd be neat if it indeed take place but ultimately the story is there for a much better understanding. If you read a book with a golf ball size consciousness you'll have a golf ball understanding.. but read with a basketball size understanding the meaning becomes larger.

Jesus and his apostles used the flood as an example of what was to come. Similar world conditions with violence and immorality rampant in the earth, would herald his return. (Matthew 24:37-39) I believe that we are seeing this situation again right now, at a time when we have so much enlightenment....there is no excuse for the barbaric and animalistic behavior of humans in this day and age.

Humans never learn from the past so they are doomed to repeat the mistakes.

 

[AdamRaja]

Greetings....



Jesus and his apostles used the flood as an example of what was to come. Similar world conditions with violence and immorality rampant in the earth, would herald his return. (Matthew 24:37-39) I believe that we are seeing this situation again right now, at a time when we have so much enlightenment....there is no excuse for the barbaric and animalistic behavior of humans in this day and age.

Humans never learn from the past so they are doomed to repeat the mistakes.

I do agree that a lot of humans do not learn from past mistakes but this situation is beyond that. There is a lot of animalistic behavior as you explained but at the same time there is a lot of kindess and love. Not all people are consciously aware. If we were all consciously aware we would all unite and love. We all evolve at different rates so we can't blame a person for wrong doing if in their mind they see no wrong. I feel that its only a matter of time and the consciousness of the masses will be expanded to an extent beyond anything in the past.

 

[Deeje]

I do agree that a lot of humans do not learn from past mistakes but this situation is beyond that. There is a lot of animalistic behavior as you explained but at the same time there is a lot of kindess and love. Not all people are consciously aware. If we were all consciously aware we would all unite and love. We all evolve at different rates so we can't blame a person for wrong doing if in their mind they see no wrong. I feel that its only a matter of time and the consciousness of the masses will be expanded to an extent beyond anything in the past.

You express the same optimism as the Bahai's do. But according to our scripture, only God will bring about the kind of rulership that humans need. They have had so many millenniums to achieve success with all the various forms of government they have tried....but right now. the world is in a big political , economic and religious mess with less excuse than ever for failing to achieve success. Something is radically wrong with the human ability to govern themselves. I believe that it is probably because humans were meant to be ruled by God.....unfortunately they lost sight of who he really was.

 

[AdamRaja]

You express the same optimism as the Bahai's do. But according to our scripture, only God will bring about the kind of rulership that humans need. They have had so many millenniums to achieve success with all the various forms of government they have tried....but right now. the world is in a big political , economic and religious mess with less excuse than ever for failing to achieve success. Something is radically wrong with the human ability to govern themselves. I believe that it is probably because humans were meant to be ruled by God.....unfortunately they lost sight of who he really was.

I enjoy your take on things. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Anna Therese]

The Flood was real.

 

[Muffled]

The Hebrew word gopher is used only once in the Bible when God commanded Noah to “make yourself an ark of gopher wood” (Genesis 6:14, ESV), Gopher could also refer to a process such as lamination. In any case a wood or process what instructed by God for the task at hand and not known today. Additionally it was covered with pitch (Genesis 6:14) within and without and that would seal the wood for the task at hand.

Up to the flood, lives were very long and about 900 years and since 'Eve was the mother of all the living' as Genesis says that would include all people.
View attachment 25063 View attachment 25064

Note the drop in ages over the centuries

Extrabiblical evidence to support the long life spans of the people in Genesis is found in the Sumerian King List. This list mentions a flood and gives the length of the reigns of kings before and after a flood.

After the flood the life times dropped something like an exponential over the centuries that followed. The air was likely higher in oxygen and high pressure (like used in hyperbaric medicine) (and possibly more mineral rich water and better environment for life) If the catastrophism associated with the flood lowered the magnetic field that could result in a drop in air pressure eventually since the magnetic fields protect the atmosphere from being blown away by solar winds. (sorry Jurassic world but dinosaurs or 4 foot wingspan dragonflies etc.... in our lower pressure air would probably not thrive)

I believe "all living" can still refer to just the Adamic race. Just as "the water covering all the earth" may just mean all the earth in Mesopotamia. I have all the books (that I own).

 

[metis]

It's what we call a "myth", which does not mean nor imply falsehood, as the real story behind the Flood narrative is the basic moral teachings behind the words. Whether the Flood narrative were to be real history or not is irrelevant today, but what is relevant today are the moral teachings found within because they can be used.

 

[Deeje]

It's what we call a "myth", which does not mean nor imply falsehood, as the real story behind the Flood narrative is the basic moral teachings behind the words. Whether the Flood narrative were to be real history or not is irrelevant today, but what is relevant today are the moral teachings found within because they can be used.

Jesus used the flood to set the scene of the world for his return.

"For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be." (Matthew 24:37-39)

We are seeing the world "filled with violence" and immorality again, not just in one or two locations...but globally. I see the return of Jesus Christ as something that the majority of people, including those who identify as Christians, are not prepared for. (Matthew 24:42-44)

This is why it is so important not to dismiss it as mere allegory....it was as real as Christ's return will be. In Noah's day, it was the dismissive attitude of the scoffers that required God to show them that what he says cannot be treated as of no consequence just because it seems unlikely. (2 Peter 3:3-7)

By the time the flood victims "believed"....they had nowhere to go.

This is what I believe will happen again.