For Fellow Christians only: Today's modern Pharisees..

[aaglaas]

Many Christians today are guilty of being just like the Pharisees, using scripture as a weapon to persecute and reject others over how God created them and who they love, while ignoring every teaching and command that is inconvenient for them to follow. The following teachings that they ignore every day while thinking they are condemning those who disagree or who question their actions to hell, highlights their moral hypocrisy quite well.

Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Romans 13:9

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not show love to others, I am merely a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not show love to others, I am nothing.…

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?” He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second most important commandment is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”

Matthew 23-4

“They (the Pharisees both ancient and modern) crush other people with unbearable religious demands and yet themselves never lift a finger to ease the burden.”

Matthew 18:21-22

“Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!”

Matthew 23:13

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.”

Matthew 23: 15

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!”

1 Timothy 4:1-4

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.” For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

We can see that happening today from people whose consciences have been totally seared away, and who have no care or feeling whatsoever as to the spiritual and emotional pain and torment they cause gay people with their prejudice and rejection, many times to the point of suicide, or the teachings they spread that today are being used as justification to beat, imprison, and murder gay people in Uganda and many other places around the world. We can see such people today with unholy zeal attempting to forbid marriage to gay people as well, just as was prophesied while they reject instead of receiving with gratitude the unique way that God created gay people.

It is truly horrific and goes against all teachings of Christ to Love and accept one another as God created us, but the demons are surely delighted by so much hatred, persecution, and murder engendered through their false and hateful teachings.

 

[aaglaas]

Very important note: When I use the word 'Pharisee' for this thread, I am not referring to modern day Rabbis or what our Bibles call the 'Pharisees' of antiquity, since the Bible incorrectly lumps 'all' Pharisees together as a monolithic group, when they had many differences within that group. For this thread, although I now know it to be unfair in a way to use, the term 'modern-day Pharisees' is meant to define the modern-day Christians who use their Bible to condemn, reject, and demonize others while they themselves ignore any teachings or commandments that are inconvenient to them.

I'm finally starting to learn more in depth about the Pharisees of that time and am humbled by my lack of knowledge on the subject, having only read of them through Christian sources until now. The following I find particularly enlightening and enjoyable, as it does show that all Pharisees were not hypocrites, nor against Jesus:

Nothing could have been more loathsome to the genuine Pharisee than Hypocrisy.

"Whatever good a man does he should do it for the glory of God" (Ab. ii. 13; Ber. 17a). Nicodemus is blamed for having given of his wealth to the poor in an ostentatious manner (Ket. 66b). An evil action may be justified where the motive is a good one (Ber. 63a). Still, the very air of sanctity surrounding the life of the Pharisees often led to abuses. Alexander Jannæus warned his wife not against the Pharisees, his declared enemies, but against "the chameleon- or hyena- ["ẓebo'im"-] like hypocrites who act like Zimri and claim the reward of Phinehas:" (Soṭah 22b).

An ancient baraita enumerates seven classes of Pharisees, of which five consist of either eccentric fools or hypocrites: (1) "the shoulder Pharisee," who wears, as it were, his good actions. ostentatiously upon his shoulder; (2) "the wait-a-little Pharisee," who ever says, "Wait a little, until I have performed the good act awaiting me"; (3), "the bruised Pharisee," who in order to avoid looking at a woman runs against the wall so as to bruise himself and bleed; (4)"the pestle Pharisee," who walks with head down like the pestle in the mortar; (5) "the ever-reckoning Pharisee," who says, "Let me know what good I may do to counteract my neglect";(6) "the God-fearing Pharisee," after the manner of Job; (7) "the God-loving Pharisee," after the manner of Abraham (Yer. Ber. ix. 14b; Soṭah 22b; Ab. R. N., text A, xxxvii.; text B, xlv. [ed. Schechter, pp. 55, 62]; the explanations in both Talmuds vary greatly; see Chwolson, "Das Letzte-Passahmahl," p. 116). R. Joshua b. Hananiah, at the beginning of the second century, calls eccentric Pharisees "destroyers of the world" (Soṭah iii. 4); and the term "Pharisaic plagues" is frequently used by the leaders of the time (Yer. Soṭah iii. 19a).


It is such types (the first 5, but not the last 2) of Pharisees that Jesus had in view when hurling his scathing words of condemnation against the Pharisees, whom he denounced as "hypocrites," calling them "offspring of vipers" ("hyenas"; see Ẓebu'im); "whited sepulchers which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones"; "blind guides," "which strain out the gnat and swallow the camel" (Matt. vi. 2-5, 16; xii. 34; xv. 14; xxiii. 24, 27, Greek). He himself tells his disciples to do as the Scribes and "Pharisees who sit on Moses' seat [see Almemar] bid them do"; but he blames them for not acting in the right spirit, for wearing large phylacteries and ẓiẓit, and for pretentiousness in many other things (ib. xxiii. 2-7). Exactly so are hypocrites censured in the Midrash (Pes. R. xxii. [ed. Friedmann, p. 111]); wearing tefillin and ẓiẓit, they harbor evil intentions in their breasts. Otherwise the Pharisees appear as friends of Jesus (Luke vii. 37, xiii. 31) and of the early Christians (Acts v. 38, xxiii. 9; "Ant." xx. 9, § 1).


Only in regard to intercourse with the unclean and "unwashed" multitude, with the 'am ha-areẓ, the publican, and the sinner, did Jesus differ widely from the Pharisees (Mark ii. 16; Luke v. 30, vii. 39, xi. 38, xv. 2, xix. 7). In regard to the main doctrine he fully agreed with them, as the old version (Mark xii. 28-34) still has it.


Owing, however, to the hostile attitude taken toward the Pharisaic schools by Pauline Christianity, especially in the time of the emperor Hadrian, (a blanket statement of) "Pharisees" was inserted in the Gospels wherever the high priests and Sadducees or Herodians were originally mentioned as the persecutors of Jesus, ignoring the other 2 types of ‘good’ Pharisees (see New Testament), and a false impression, which still prevails in Christian circles and among (almost) all Christian writers, was created concerning the Pharisees.

 

[Unification]

Very important note: When I use the word 'Pharisee' for this thread, I am not referring to modern day Rabbis or what our Bibles call the 'Pharisees' of antiquity, since the Bible incorrectly lumps 'all' Pharisees together as a monolithic group, when they had many differences within that group. For this thread, although I now know it to be unfair in a way to use, the term 'modern-day Pharisees' is meant to define the modern-day Christians who use their Bible to condemn, reject, and demonize others while they themselves ignore any teachings or commandments that are inconvenient to them.

I'm finally starting to learn more in depth about the Pharisees of that time and am humbled by my lack of knowledge on the subject, having only read of them through Christian sources until now. The following I find particularly enlightening and enjoyable, as it does show that all Pharisees were not hypocrites, nor against Jesus:

Nothing could have been more loathsome to the genuine Pharisee than Hypocrisy.

"Whatever good a man does he should do it for the glory of God" (Ab. ii. 13; Ber. 17a). Nicodemus is blamed for having given of his wealth to the poor in an ostentatious manner (Ket. 66b). An evil action may be justified where the motive is a good one (Ber. 63a). Still, the very air of sanctity surrounding the life of the Pharisees often led to abuses. Alexander Jannæus warned his wife not against the Pharisees, his declared enemies, but against "the chameleon- or hyena- ["ẓebo'im"-] like hypocrites who act like Zimri and claim the reward of Phinehas:" (Soṭah 22b).

An ancient baraita enumerates seven classes of Pharisees, of which five consist of either eccentric fools or hypocrites: (1) "the shoulder Pharisee," who wears, as it were, his good actions. ostentatiously upon his shoulder; (2) "the wait-a-little Pharisee," who ever says, "Wait a little, until I have performed the good act awaiting me"; (3), "the bruised Pharisee," who in order to avoid looking at a woman runs against the wall so as to bruise himself and bleed; (4)"the pestle Pharisee," who walks with head down like the pestle in the mortar; (5) "the ever-reckoning Pharisee," who says, "Let me know what good I may do to counteract my neglect";(6) "the God-fearing Pharisee," after the manner of Job; (7) "the God-loving Pharisee," after the manner of Abraham (Yer. Ber. ix. 14b; Soṭah 22b; Ab. R. N., text A, xxxvii.; text B, xlv. [ed. Schechter, pp. 55, 62]; the explanations in both Talmuds vary greatly; see Chwolson, "Das Letzte-Passahmahl," p. 116). R. Joshua b. Hananiah, at the beginning of the second century, calls eccentric Pharisees "destroyers of the world" (Soṭah iii. 4); and the term "Pharisaic plagues" is frequently used by the leaders of the time (Yer. Soṭah iii. 19a).


It is such types (the first 5, but not the last 2) of Pharisees that Jesus had in view when hurling his scathing words of condemnation against the Pharisees, whom he denounced as "hypocrites," calling them "offspring of vipers" ("hyenas"; see Ẓebu'im); "whited sepulchers which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones"; "blind guides," "which strain out the gnat and swallow the camel" (Matt. vi. 2-5, 16; xii. 34; xv. 14; xxiii. 24, 27, Greek). He himself tells his disciples to do as the Scribes and "Pharisees who sit on Moses' seat [see Almemar] bid them do"; but he blames them for not acting in the right spirit, for wearing large phylacteries and ẓiẓit, and for pretentiousness in many other things (ib. xxiii. 2-7). Exactly so are hypocrites censured in the Midrash (Pes. R. xxii. [ed. Friedmann, p. 111]); wearing tefillin and ẓiẓit, they harbor evil intentions in their breasts. Otherwise the Pharisees appear as friends of Jesus (Luke vii. 37, xiii. 31) and of the early Christians (Acts v. 38, xxiii. 9; "Ant." xx. 9, § 1).


Only in regard to intercourse with the unclean and "unwashed" multitude, with the 'am ha-areẓ, the publican, and the sinner, did Jesus differ widely from the Pharisees (Mark ii. 16; Luke v. 30, vii. 39, xi. 38, xv. 2, xix. 7). In regard to the main doctrine he fully agreed with them, as the old version (Mark xii. 28-34) still has it.


Owing, however, to the hostile attitude taken toward the Pharisaic schools by Pauline Christianity, especially in the time of the emperor Hadrian, (a blanket statement of) "Pharisees" was inserted in the Gospels wherever the high priests and Sadducees or Herodians were originally mentioned as the persecutors of Jesus, ignoring the other 2 types of ‘good’ Pharisees (see New Testament), and a false impression, which still prevails in Christian circles and among (almost) all Christian writers, was created concerning the Pharisees.

The kingdom is within. The Lord is within. Only truth. Nice posts.

 

[aaglaas]

The kingdom is within. The Lord is within. Only truth. Nice posts.

Hi Unification, thank you so much.

 

[Unification]

Hi Unification, thank you so much.

Hi aaglaas, very welcome. Peace to you and many blessings, friend.

 

[ChristineES]

Hello. I think that any religious organization is going to have those members who are "holier than thou". There have always been those religious followers who care about following the rules/teachings, yet don't ever think about worshiping God. Yeshua was speaking about those religious leaders in his time who fit those bills and yes, those types still are among us. We need to be on our guard, we Christians (Disciples of Yeshua/Jesus is the title I use, personally).
( I wouldn't put those on all the people following a certain sect, however, including Pharisees.) I have included a New World Encyclopedia* definition for Pharisee below:

Pharisees - New World Encyclopedia

Good thread.

 

[aaglaas]

Hello. I think that any religious organization is going to have those members who are "holier than thou". There have always been those religious followers who care about following the rules/teachings, yet don't ever think about worshiping God. Yeshua was speaking about those religious leaders in his time who fit those bills and yes, those types still are among us. We need to be on our guard, we Christians (Disciples of Yeshua/Jesus is the title I use, personally).
( I wouldn't put those on all the people following a certain sect, however, including Pharisees.) I have included a New World Encyclopedia* definition for Pharisee below:

Pharisees - New World Encyclopedia

Good thread.

Dear Christine, Hello and I think you stated that very beautifully. Thank you and God bless you!!

 

[Sleeppy]

We shouldn't reject people, but we should reject certain thoughts and actions.

 

[aaglaas]

We shouldn't reject people, but we should reject certain thoughts and actions.

Such as?

 

[rusra02]

It is not being like the Pharisees to uphold the moral standards in the Bible. We are told to love our neighbor as ourselves, so it is wrong to hate someone who doesn't practice the true religion. On the other hand, the Bible clearly teaches " that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom. Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10) To try to hide the truth that homosexuality is a grevious sin would be both unloving and unjust, IMO. What should count with true Christians is what God says, not the shifting ideas of men as to what is moral or immoral

 

[aaglaas]

It is not being like the Pharisees to uphold the moral standards in the Bible. We are told to love our neighbor as ourselves, so it is wrong to hate someone who doesn't practice the true religion. On the other hand, the Bible clearly teaches " that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom. Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10) To try to hide the truth that homosexuality is a grevious sin would be both unloving and unjust, IMO. What should count with true Christians is what God says, not the shifting ideas of men as to what is moral or immoral

Strangely enough, you don't see the teachings on adultery from the exact same verse such as you use to condemn gay people with..leading to people being beaten, imprisoned, or murdered over, and yet we can see that happening all around the world over the 'teachings' they spread about homosexuality.

A gay person usually will realize at a very early age, many times as early as 4 years old, that they are somehow different from the other children of their gender, but do not know what the difference is. Upon reaching puberty, they will discover that they are only attracted to, able to feel romantic feelings for, and are only able to fall in love with their same gender.. the same as a heterosexual person discovers upon reaching puberty for the opposite gender... just as God created them.

The two most important things on this particular issue, are to first study as deeply as possible, the original Hebrew and Greek words concerning this subject, whereupon we find that most Bibles have them translated incorrectly, and secondly, to ask whether teachings that directly result in spiritual and emotional feelings of despair and anguish that many times lead to suicide on the part of the persecuted, and lead to worldwide persecution, hatred, violence, imprisonment, beatings, rejection, and many times murder... can possibly come from Jesus and the Spirit, who preach love.

That is why I, my denomination of 4 million Christians, and many other entire denominations believe now that such teachings are falsehoods spread by man and innate prejudice. After all, there was no Bible for the first 300 years of Christianity until the creation of the Vulgate Bible commissioned by Pope Damasus in 382. It's no surprise that around the same time the Church advised the emperor to create legislation barring homosexuals from marrying each other, and a short time later, advised them to be burnt alive in public, that the translations made into Latin were not honest, and then once 'tradition' sets in on a particular belief, it's very hard to change it after 1,700 years, especially when it validates human prejudice and/or hatred on this issue.

How does the Bible address homosexuality - when the word itself didn't even exist until 1869? The word first appeared in Germany to describe the fact that from birth some people are predisposed toward persons of the same sex. Since the biblical languages (Hebrew and Greek) had no words for heterosexual or homosexual, it is anachronistic and misleading when 'homosexual' is used to translate a biblical text. It is wrong to proclaim the biblical view of homosexuality since there is none. This violates the integrity of the individual texts and the biblical witness as a whole. Each reference to what is today homosexuality must be read in the light of the particular literary, cultural, and historic contexts of any particular passage.

For example, I Cor 6:9, in no way refers to homosexuality in generality. The original Greek word often quoted as "sexual immorality" Paul used was "porneia", which means "idolatrous intercourse". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes of both gender were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshiping pagan sex gods.

Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts.

Matthew 7 - "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

The Christians who repeatedly use their measure and judgment to attack, condemn, persecute, and reject gay people with are now being measured and judged by their same standards, and are found to have fallen far short, and are shown to be full of religious hypocrisy. They have been found to be exactly as the people in Matthew 23:28 describe them. Since they took it upon themselves to judge and measure others in clear defiance of what the Bible teaches 'not' to do, they have thus brought the same judgment back upon themselves as the Bible says will happen in such situations.

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?” He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second most important commandment is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”

Matthew 23-4

“They (the Pharisees both ancient and modern) crush other people with unbearable religious demands and yet themselves never lift a finger to ease the burden.”

Matthew 18:21-22

“Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!”

Matthew 23:13

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.”

Matthew 23: 15

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!”


1 Timothy 4:1-4

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth." For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

We can see that happening today from people whose consciences have been totally seared away, and who have no care or feeling whatsoever as to the spiritual and emotional pain and torment they cause gay people with their prejudice and rejection, many times to the point of suicide, or the teachings they spread that today are being used as justification to beat, imprison, and murder gay people in Uganda and many other places around the world.

We can see such people today attempting to forbid marriage to gay people as well, just as was prophesied while they reject instead of receiving with gratitude the unique way that God created gay people. It is truly horrific and goes against all teachings of Christ to Love and accept one another as God created us, but the demons are surely delighted by so much hatred, persecution, and murder.

 

[rusra02]

Clearly, the Bible does condemn homosexual acts. 1 Corinthians 6:9,10 with the Greek text: "ἢ Or οὐκ not οἴδατε have YOU known ὅτι that ἄδικοι unjust (ones) θεοῦ of God βασιλείαν kingdom οὐ not κληρονομήσουσιν; they will inherit? Μὴ Not πλανᾶσθε· be YOU being misled; οὔτε neither πόρνοι fornicators οὔτε nor εἰδωλολάτραι idolaters οὔτε nor μοιχοὶ adulterersοὔτε nor μαλακοὶ soft [men] οὔτε nor ἀρσενοκοῖται nor liers with males."
This is not a license for anyone to mistreat homosexuals; but it does clearly give God's view of such perversions. The Bible is clear that sexually immoral people,whether heterosexual or homosexual, will not receive God's favor unless they stop practicing what God says is bad. (1 Corinthians 6:11)

 

[aaglaas]

The word "arsenokoitai" in 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy:


"Arsenokoitai" is a Greek word that appears to have been uniquely created by Paul when he was writing 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. No record remains of any writer having using the term before Paul. It has been translated as "abusers of themselves with mankind" in the King James Version (KJV):


"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


The KJV was finished 1611 CE when there was no single word in the English language that referred to homosexuals or homosexuality. The translators were forced to use this awkward phrase. The term "homosexual" was only created in the late 19th century.


More recent versions of the Bible translate arsenokoitai here as:


• "homosexuals," (NASB);
• "homosexual perversion," (NEB);
• "homosexual offenders," (NIV).


In doing this, they appear to have little respect or attention to the actual meaning of the original Greek verse. By using the term "homosexual" the translators changed the scope of the verse. The original Greek refers to men only; the English translation refers to both males and females; i.e. to gays and lesbians. We suspect that the temptation to attack lesbians overcame the translators' desire to be accurate.


The author of 1 Timothy also used "arsenokoitai." The KJV translated it similarly:


"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine."


Christian theologians generally agree that Paul wrote 1 Corinthians circa 55 CE. However, they differ on the authorship and date of the three Pastoral Epistles -- 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy and Titus.


• Some scholars believe that Paul wrote the Pastoral epistles during the interval 62 to 64 CE just before his death.


• Many other scholars believe that they were written up to 85 years after Paul's execution, circa 100 to 150 CE by an unknown person who pretended to be Paul.


What does "arsenokoitai" really mean?


"Arsenokoitai" is made up of two parts: "arsen" means "man"; "koitai" means "beds."


Although the word in English Bibles is interpreted as referring to homosexuals, we can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual activity between males. We can conclude that he probably meant something different than people who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior.


Many sources have speculated about the meaning of "arsenokoitai:"


• "Homosexual offenders:" The NIV contains this phrase. Suppose for the moment that Paul had attacked "heterosexual offenders" or "heterosexual sexual offenders." We would not interpret this today as a general condemnation of heterosexuality. It would be seen as an attack only on those heterosexuals who commit sexual offences. Perhaps the appropriate interpretation of this verse is that it does not condemn all homosexuals. Rather it condemns only those homosexuals who engage in sexual offences (e.g. child sexual abuse, rape, unsafe sex, manipulative sex, coercive sex, etc).


• Male prostitutes in Pagan temples: One source states that the Septuagint (an ancient, pre-Christian translation of the Old Testament into Greek made between the 3rd and 1st centuryBCE) translated the Hebrew "quadesh" in I Kings 14:24, 15:12 and 22:46 into a Greek word somewhat similar to "arsenokoitai." This passage referred to "male temple prostitutes" -- people who engaged in ritual sex in Pagan temples. Some leaders in the early Christian church also thought 1 Corinthians was referring to temple prostitutes. Some authorities believe that it simply means male prostitutes with female customers - a practice which appears to have been a common practice in the Roman empire.


• Pimp: Another source refers to other writings, written later than 1 Corinthians, which contains the word "arsenokoitai:" This includes the Sibylline Oracles 2.70-77, Acts of John, and Theophilus of Antioch's Ad Autolycum. The source suggests that the term refers "to some kind of economic exploitation by means of sex (but not necessarily homosexual sex)." Probably "pimp" or "man living off of the avails of prostitution" would be the closest English translations. It is worth noting that "Much Greek homosexual erotic literature has survived, none of it contains the word arsenokoitai."


• Masturbators. At the time of Martin Luther, "arsenokoitai" was universally interpreted as masturbator. But by the 20th century, masturbation had become a more generally accepted behavior. So, new translations abandoned references to masturbators and switched the attack to homosexuals. The last religious writing in English that interpreted 1 Corinthians 6:9 as referring to masturbation is believed to be the [Roman] Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967.


• Abusive pedophiles: Many would consider "malakoi" -- the word preceding "arsenokoitai," in 1 Corinthians -- to refer to a catamite: a boy or young male who engaged in sexual activities with men. Such boys were often slaves, owned by rich men as sex partners. The second term might then refer to the men who engaged in sex with the catamites. That is, they were abusive pedophiles or hebephiles. The New American Bible contains a footnote which reads:


"The Greek word translated as 'boy prostitutes' [in 1 Cor. 6:9] designated catamites, i.e. boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world....The term translated 'practicing homosexuals' refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys."


In their footnote, the translators recognize that the term refers to abusive male pedophiles, but apparently cannot resist the temptation to attack all homosexuals -- both gays and lesbians, non-abusive and abusive.


Harper's Bible Commentary (1998) states that the passage refers to:


"... both the effeminate male prostitute and his partner who hires him to satisfy sexual needs. The two terms used here for homosexuality... specify a special form of pederasty that was generally disapproved of in Greco-Roman and Jewish Literature."


Many religious scholars agree that the center portion of 6:9 might be accurately translated as: "male child abusers and the boys that they sexually abuse." i.e. the two behaviors probably relate to male pedophiles who are also child rapists, and the male children that they victimize. The verse would then refer to the crime of child sexual abuse and has no relation to homosexuality in the normal sense of the term: i.e. to consensual sexual relations between adults of the same gender.


Male prostitutes: An analysis of 1 Corinthians shows a pattern in verse 9 and 10. They are composed up of pairs or triads of related groups of people:


The lawless & disobedient: two near synonyms


The ungodly & sinners: also two near synonyms


The unholy & profane: two synonyms


The murderers of fathers & murderers of mothers & manslayers: three kinds of murderers


Whoremongers & "arsenokoitai" & menstealers


Liars & perjurers etc.: again, two near synonyms.


From the repeated pairs or triads made up of synonyms or near synonyms, one might expect that whoremongers, "malakoi arsenokoitai," and menstealers are interconnected with a common theme -- just like the other pairs and triads in the list.


In the original Greek, the first of the three words is "pornov." An online Greek lexicon notes that this is Strong's Number 4205, and was derived from the Greek word "pernemi" which means to sell. Its meanings are:


A man who prostitutes his body to another's lust for hire.


A male prostitute.


A man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse, a fornicator.


The second term is "arsenokoitai" which has not been given a Strong Number because it is a made-up word that is almost never found in the Greek language other than in 1 Timothy and 1 Corinthians.


The last of the three words is "andrapodistes," the stem of the word andrapodistai. It is Strong's Number 405 which means:


A slave-dealer, kidnapper, man-stealer -- one who unjustly reduces free men to slavery or who steals the slaves of others and sells them.


If we assume that the three words refer to a common theme, as the other five groups are, then we have to look for some sense which the words have in common:


"pornoi" refers to an enslaved male prostitute.


"arsenokoitai" refers to a man who forces sex on an enslaved male prostitute


"andrapodistes" refers to a person who kidnaps and enslaves people.


The common theme is slavery. It is as if Paul were saying, 'male prostitutes, men who sleep with them, and slave dealers who procure them'. That is, all three words deal with slavery. They are unrelated to homosexual behavior in the modern sense of the term i.e. consensual sex between persons of the same sex.


• A boy sex slave


Again, the common theme is slavery.


Translating "arsenokoitai" as a boy who is kept as a sex slave has some support in at least two Bible translations:


As noted above, a footnote in the New American Bible (NAB), interprets "arsenokoitai" as a " boy prostitute."


The Jerusalem Bible translates the triad in 1 Timothy as: "those who are immoral with women or with boys or with men." In 1 Corinthians 6:9 the same word "arsenokoitai" is translated as "catamite."


An acurate translation of 1 Timothy 1:10 would be: "...male prostitutes, boys who have sex with men, and slave dealers who enslave them both."


As you may have observed by now, attempts to distort the Bible into a message of hate are badly misguided. The passages in Leviticus and Paul's three letters specifically apply to people engaging in ritual activity with pagan priests or sacred prostitutes. The references to 'sodomites' in Deuteronomy, etc., are a clear error in translation that refer to the same thing. The Sodom and Gomorrah references clearly refer to inhospitality and not to homosexuality at all.


Here's the most fundamental weakness in such thinking: the Bible does not condemn lesbians.There is a proscription against women wearing men's clothing, and a letter from Paul 'mentions' "women [who] did change the natural use into that which is against nature" – whatever that means – but nothing else. Any translations that apply to 'homosexuals' (i.e., including females as well as males) are mis-translations, possibly intentional, certainly political.


So it is entirely within Christ's teachings to welcome and celebrate the unique way that God created homosexuals, and to encourage them to find another to marry and live a monogamous life with, rather than to condemn and/or cast them out, which almost inevitably leads to despair, and a promiscuous and dangerous lifestyle in an attempt to gain the physical affection and love they were denied.

Source: HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE NEW TESTAMENT: CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL VIEWS

 

[Sleeppy]

Such as?

Wherever two or three are gathered in the name of peace, there I am in their midst.. Anything against this is Satanic, adversarial, and after Cain's likeness, cursed.

 

[jtartar]

Many Christians today are guilty of being just like the Pharisees, using scripture as a weapon to persecute and reject others over how God created them and who they love, while ignoring every teaching and command that is inconvenient for them to follow. The following teachings that they ignore every day while thinking they are condemning those who disagree or who question their actions to hell, highlights their moral hypocrisy quite well.

Matthew 5:43-48

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

Romans 13:9

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

1 Corinthians 13:1-2

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not show love to others, I am merely a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not show love to others, I am nothing.…

Matthew 22:36-40

“Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?” He replied, “You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your being, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second most important commandment is like it: You must love your neighbor as you love yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”

Matthew 23-4

“They (the Pharisees both ancient and modern) crush other people with unbearable religious demands and yet themselves never lift a finger to ease the burden.”

Matthew 18:21-22

“Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!”

Matthew 23:13

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either.”

Matthew 23: 15

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!”

1 Timothy 4:1-4

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.” For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude.

We can see that happening today from people whose consciences have been totally seared away, and who have no care or feeling whatsoever as to the spiritual and emotional pain and torment they cause gay people with their prejudice and rejection, many times to the point of suicide, or the teachings they spread that today are being used as justification to beat, imprison, and murder gay people in Uganda and many other places around the world. We can see such people today with unholy zeal attempting to forbid marriage to gay people as well, just as was prophesied while they reject instead of receiving with gratitude the unique way that God created gay people.

It is truly horrific and goes against all teachings of Christ to Love and accept one another as God created us, but the demons are surely delighted by so much hatred, persecution, and murder engendered through their false and hateful teachings.

aaglaas,
Those scriptures you copied are beautiful, but you did not mention the most important commandment; You must love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, Matt 22:34-40.
If you really love God, you will want to obey His commandments, and not pick out a few things you like, and then actually condemning God for making laws for all mankind. While true Christians do not hate homosexuals, the third sex, we have read God's word, His thinking on this subject, that He is not pleased with the practice, as you can read yourself, Lev 20:13, 18:22, Rom 1:26-32, 1Cor 6:9-11, 1Tim 1:8-11. We can easily see exactly what God thinks of this practice.
Something to think about; if a person were born with this tendency, God certainly would not condemn it. Realizing God is against this practice, anyone who loves God will make every effort not to practice this abomaination.

 

[aaglaas]

aaglaas,
Those scriptures you copied are beautiful, but you did not mention the most important commandment; You must love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, Matt 22:34-40.
If you really love God, you will want to obey His commandments, and not pick out a few things you like, and then actually condemning God for making laws for all mankind. While true Christians do not hate homosexuals, the third sex, we have read God's word, His thinking on this subject, that He is not pleased with the practice, as you can read yourself, Lev 20:13, 18:22, Rom 1:26-32, 1Cor 6:9-11, 1Tim 1:8-11. We can easily see exactly what God thinks of this practice.
Something to think about; if a person were born with this tendency, God certainly would not condemn it. Realizing God is against this practice, anyone who loves God will make every effort not to practice this abomaination.

God is most definitely 'not' against this beautiful love.


Ruth 1:16-17


But Ruth said (to Naomi), "Do not urge me to leave you or turn back from following you; for where you go, I will go, and where you lodge, I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God. "Where you die, I will die, and there I will be buried. Thus may the LORD do to me, and worse, if anything but death parts you and me."…


These are the exact same words used at most heterosexual Christian weddings.


2 Samuel 1:26


I am heartbroken over you, my brother Jonathan. You were my great delight. Your love was more wonderful to me than the love of women.


Saul and Jonathan, beloved and lovely!
In life and in death they were not divided;
they were swifter than eagles,
they were stronger than lions.

Love 'Will' Conquer Hatred and Bigotry on this issue..

 

[sojourner]

It is not being like the Pharisees to uphold the moral standards in the Bible.

And what are those "moral standards." From where I'm looking, those standards are: love, compassion, forbearance, hospitality, inclusion, tolerance.

the Bible clearly teaches " that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom.

And what constitutes "righteousness?" Following rules to the letter -- whether they are of benefit or even right? Or loving God and neighbor?

Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom." (1 Corinthians 6:9,10)

Do not be mislead. A literalistic reading of English translations often causes one to miss the meaning of the texts. The ancients had no concept for homosexuality as a valid orientation. Of course they thought all homosexual acts were sinful. However, we know better now. Homosexuality hasn't been treated by the scientific community as an illness for over twenty years now. It's the same reasoning as the the reasoning we use to determine that the sky is not a rigid dome separating earth from heaven. We now know something the ancients didn't know -- that God doesn't dwell bodily out in space. And we proceed on that basis.

To try to hide the truth that homosexuality is a grevious sin would be both unloving and unjust, IMO.

To try to hide the truth that God loves every person just as they are is both unloving and unjust.

What should count with true Christians is what God says, not the shifting ideas of men as to what is moral or immoral

1) What constitutes a "true" Christian? Isn't it someone who follows Jesus? Or did I miss the teaching of the Secret Handshake and the Password at the last clandestine meeting of True Christians?
2) Christians (and their Judaic forebears) have always counted on the "shifting ideas of men," for that is the only method of transmission of truth. For example, the very earliest Anointed-believers thought that, in order to become Christian, one had to become Jewish first. I look around and don't see very many Jewish Christians -- including yourself, I'd be willing to bet. That idea has certainly shifted over the years.

Clearly, the Bible does condemn homosexual acts.

Yes, but only within the scope of the limited cultural and scientific understanding of Paul.

but it does clearly give God's view of such perversions.

No, it doesn't. It somewhat gives Paul's view.

 

[rusra02]

And what are those "moral standards." From where I'm looking, those standards are: love, compassion, forbearance, hospitality, inclusion, tolerance.

And what constitutes "righteousness?" Following rules to the letter -- whether they are of benefit or even right? Or loving God and neighbor?

Do not be mislead. A literalistic reading of English translations often causes one to miss the meaning of the texts. The ancients had no concept for homosexuality as a valid orientation. Of course they thought all homosexual acts were sinful. However, we know better now. Homosexuality hasn't been treated by the scientific community as an illness for over twenty years now. It's the same reasoning as the the reasoning we use to determine that the sky is not a rigid dome separating earth from heaven. We now know something the ancients didn't know -- that God doesn't dwell bodily out in space. And we proceed on that basis.

To try to hide the truth that God loves every person just as they are is both unloving and unjust.

1) What constitutes a "true" Christian? Isn't it someone who follows Jesus? Or did I miss the teaching of the Secret Handshake and the Password at the last clandestine meeting of True Christians?
2) Christians (and their Judaic forebears) have always counted on the "shifting ideas of men," for that is the only method of transmission of truth. For example, the very earliest Anointed-believers thought that, in order to become Christian, one had to become Jewish first. I look around and don't see very many Jewish Christians -- including yourself, I'd be willing to bet. That idea has certainly shifted over the years.

Yes, but only within the scope of the limited cultural and scientific understanding of Paul.

No, it doesn't. It somewhat gives Paul's view.

Someone who does not accept the Bible "not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God", likely will mistake God's love for permissiveness, and mistake God's impartiality for acceptance of behavior he clearly condemns. (1 Thessalonians 2:13) I believe Jehovah has clearly made his views of homosexuality known, both by his clear commands and warning examples. "In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire." (Jude 7)

 

[aaglaas]

"In the same manner, Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah and the cities around them also gave themselves over to gross sexual immorality and pursued unnatural fleshly desires; they are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire." (Jude 7)

Not true..



Ezekiel 16:49 says quite clearly - Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.



One of the more common arguments against homosexuality used to be the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. We say "used to be," because many biblical scholars and teachers today realize that there is insufficient scriptural backing for that argument. Let us together take a clear, honest look at these cities, and let us determine who the inhabitants were, and why God destroyed them.



The first thing to realize is that it wasn't just two cities involved. Today, we only remember the names of two, but in truth, God was about to destroy all the cities of the plain. In addition to Sodom and Gomorrah, the cities of Admah, Zeboiim and Zoar were also about to be destroyed. (Gen. 14:2; Deut. 29:23) Zoar was spared so that Lot and his daughters could flee there, but Admah and Zeboiim met the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah. Another interesting point is that, at least in reference to Sodom and Gomorrah, the Bible doesn't tell us their real names. Consider: The Hebrew word for Sodom is סדם S'dom and means "burnt." The Hebrew word for Gomorrah is עמורה 'Amorah, and means "a ruined heap." There can be no question that these names were given to the cities after they were destroyed, and were not their original names.



The inhabitants of these cities, like all the Canaanites, were worshippers of false gods. These included the god Molech, arguably the most horrible of all the idols of Canaan. Molech was a huge statue with his arms held out in front of him. A fire would be kindled between his arms, and then newborn children would be placed in his arms and burned alive. This was known as "passing your children through the fire to Molech."



Other practices engaged in by the Canaanites included adult human sacrifice, cannibalism, and temple prostitution. (Having sexual relations with temple prostitutes as a form of worship in fertility cults.) Is it any wonder that God was determined to destroy these cities? From a spiritual perspective, people who worship idols and engage in the above-mentioned practices are extremely likely to become demon-possessed, and it is quite probable that many, if not most, of the inhabitants of the cities of the plain were possessed.



Lot, Abraham's nephew, moved to the city of Sodom with his wife and two daughters. God sent two angels to Sodom in the evening, ostensibly to investigate the rumors of the sinfulness of the city. The real purpose of their visit, though, (since God already knew what was going on) was to rescue Lot and his family from the impending destruction. The account of their visit to the city is found in Genesis 19. Lot was sitting in the gate. This is significant. The person who sat in the gate, that is, the gatekeeper, was entrusted by the rulers of the city to monitor all traffic in and out of the city, and not to admit anyone who could endanger the city in any way. This was a serious responsibility, and the fact that it was given to Lot, who was not a native of the city, but a relative newcomer, was unusual.



A word about the angels: Forget, for a moment, the traditional stereotypes of angels, that is, women with flowing blond hair and huge feathered wings. In scripture, angels usually appeared in the form of men. Frequently, there was nothing unusual about their appearance that would suggest they were anything other than human beings.



Lot greeted the two visitors, as was his responsibility as gatekeeper. (He bowed to the ground, which was not an uncommon form of greeting from an inferior to a superior, in this case, from a public servant to strangers whose social status was unknown.) He then evidently inquired about their business in the city and specific destination, again, as part of his job. Upon learning that they intended to spend the night in the street, Lot insisted that they stay at his house. Some have argued that this was because he knew they would not be safe in the streets. The obvious aside, that there has probably never been a city where it is safe to sleep in the streets at night, the reason for Lot's insistence was actually quite different. It was simply the law of hospitality. This law was unwritten at the time, but was universal throughout the area. It simply stated that if a stranger came to your home or city, you were to treat them as if they were part of your family. You were responsible to lodge, feed and protect them, even at the cost of your own life. Examples of Abraham treating strangers in this way can be found both in scripture and other Jewish writings. This law was later included in the Law of Moses.



After much urging from Lot, the two visitors went to Lot's house and he made dinner for them. Later that night, a mob formed outside of Lot's house, demanding he bring out the guests. Traditionalists would have us believe that the mob was made up of homosexual men, wanting to have sex with the angels. But a careful reading of the verses shows clearly that this was not the case. Gen. 19:4 tells us "But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter." At first glance, it does appear to be a crowd of men.



But let's look deeper. The phrase "the men of the city, even the men of Sodom" is misleading. In Hebrew, אנשיהעיראנשיסדם "anshei ha'ir, anshei S'dom," can also be translated as "the people of the city, the people of Sodom." But is that a more correct translation? The rest of the verse will answer that for us: "...both old and young, all the people from every quarter." There is no question, then, that the entire population of Sodom gathered outside Lot's house, men, women and children. This alone tells us that the traditionalists were wrong about the intent of this mob: If you are planning a homosexual orgy, you don't invite the wife and kids!



Of course, this begs the question, how did this mob come to form, and what did they want? The Bible doesn't tell us, so we have to read between the lines and in so doing, backtrack from the mob scene outside Lot's house to where the crowd first gathered. First, the fact that the entire population of the city was involved tells us that this was, to them, a matter of vital civic importance. They evidently felt that the visit of these two strangers was something that could affect every person in the city in some way. So logic suggests that the gathering would have begun at whatever public place Sodom used for such things, such as a City Hall or public square. Here was the situation as they would have seen it: Lot, a stranger who moved here and was given a position of some responsibility, has invited two strangers of unknown origin into the city and into his home. Sodom had only recently come out of war (Gen. 14:1-2), and for all they knew, these men could have been spies. It was essential for the safety and peace of mind of all the citizens, that they determine the identity of these men. They knew, of course, of the law of hospitality, but the safety and security of the city overrode that. So a plan was devised: They would peacefully go to Lot's house and ask to meet the strangers and know who they were. They even had their words chosen: "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out and let us know them." It should be noted that this was phrased as a request, using a polite form of the verb "to know," and was not phrased in a hostile, demanding way. And so the crowd began to move toward Lot's house.



Between their starting point and Lot's house, something happened to this crowd of concerned citizens that turned them into a mob. When they reached Lot's house, they delivered their prepared request, but even though the grammar was still very polite, the character of the people was now that of an ugly lynch mob. What could have happened?



If the people of Sodom were possessed, as they most likely were, this would explain what happened. Even though the people did not know the visitors were angels, the evil spirits inside of them did. When you put a devil in the presence of someone holy, there will almost always be a reaction from the devil. (See Mark 5:1-7) The closer this crowd got to the angels at Lot's house, the more riled up the demons got, and the more out of control the people got. This seems the only plausible explanation. The polite grammar of the crowd shows clearly that they could not have started out as a mob.



There are those who claim that when the crowd said "let us know them," they meant "have sex." There are even translations of the Bible that say "let us have sex with them,"or "let us know them carnally." Let us state categorically, that the Hebrew text will NOT support such "translations."



Some say that Hebrew has more than one verb for "know" and that the one used here means "have sex." Let's set the record straight on this. The root of the Hebrew verb for "know" is ידע yada. A form of yadais used here and hundreds of other times in scripture. Only about ten of those times refer to sex, and in each case, the sexual meaning is clear by the context. (Example: Adam knew his wife and she conceived.) To try to make this word mean sex everywhere will get us in a lot of trouble, because the scripture tells us that God knew David, and uses a form of this word. We don't think anyone would be foolish enough to try to attach a sexual meaning to that. When the crowd outside Lot's house said they wanted to know the visitors, they meant exactly that: To know who they were. Or at least, that was what they meant when they started out.



It doesn't take a genius to recognize a lynch mob. And a tiny family like Lot's couldn't hope to fight off such a mob. The only hope in such cases is to try to talk them out of it, or, failing in that, to try to distract them in some way. Lot tried both. He went out to them and asked them not to behave so wickedly. The hostile intent of the mob was clear to him, despite the polite words they used. It was also clear immediately that talking was not going to work. They were in what could only be termed a bloodlust. Lot, in desperation to protect his guests, did what the law of hospitality required. He was willing to sacrifice the lives of his daughters to protect the guests. A word about the two daughters: These girls were engaged to two men from Sodom. An engagement was much more binding in those days than it is today. Lot offered his two daughters, still virgins, to the crowd in place of the strangers. If he could distract the men of the crowd, then they, as the leaders of the city, could have disbanded the mob, and the guests would be safe.



Consider this: If the men of Sodom were homosexual, there is no way Lot would not have known. He would have known it would be pointless to offer women to homosexual men. He could, and would, have offered them something they would be more likely to accept. (Had the crowd outside Lot's house really been interested in raping the men inside, it hardly seems plausible that they would politely ask permission to do so, using a mild euphemism for sex. Hebrew has a number of verbs to describe sexual intercourse, and at least one of these, עגב agav, is considered somewhat vulgar. A rape gang would be far more likely to use a crude verb such as this.)



Lot's offer was refused, and they seized him, and said they were going to do worse to him than they were planning to do to his guests. Did they attempt any type of sexual contact with Lot? No! Instead, they tried to kill him. There was no sexual situation here at all. But, just for the sake of argument, if the intent of the crowd had been to force the angels to have sex, the crime would have been rape, not homosexuality.



Ezekiel recorded the sins of Sodom: Ezek. 16:49-50 - pride, fullness of bread, abundance of idleness, they did not strengthen the hand of the poor and needy, they were haughty and committed abomination, or actually 'taboo'. A note about this unspecified abomination: In the Law of Moses, many things are called abomination, including such things as eating pork and shellfish, having sex with a woman during her period, etc.



But Sodom and the other cities were destroyed before the Law was written, so we need to look outside the Law for the definition of this word. Outside the Law, the word abomination almost always refers to the practices associated with idol worship, some of which were enumerated earlier. It should also be noted that ancient Jewish commentaries on Sodom (in the Mishnah) all agree that Sodom and the other cities were destroyed because of their cruelty to strangers and their failure to help the poor. None of them suggests anything in regard to homosexual activity.

Source: Sermon by Rev. William H. Carey

 

[RabbiO]

Not true.............

Unless you are the Rev. William H. Carey, it might be nice to give proper attribution to your source.