Twig pentagram
High Priest
:yes: I AM.
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For Luciferians; The difference between Luciferians & Luciferianism.
- Thread starter Twig pentagram
- Start date
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
I wanted to capitalize "I am" to play off what you do, but realized that it was tactless :cover:
Twig pentagram
High Priest
Thank you for your consideration.
You actually have people who are not even on The Path trying to tell
me how to be me.Jesus Christ, Allah and Buddah.
Listen Sum, and Jasonwill2 if you disagree with me thats cool. lets
just agree to disagree. This is for those Whom I THINK is on The
Path. HOTEP
If Luciferians are about being you, which it isn't as it's a philosophy and philosophy tells you how to be, then everyone would be one.
I don't care about what you believe in, Twig, just don't use 'Luciferian' to tie around your beliefs, because I could call myself a Christian right now, but it would be absolutely pointless and the meaning has no relevance.
I'm sorry, you think this has been around for hundreds of years? Worship of Lucifer as a better aspect of Satan, or some other derivative has existed, but those people are not Luciferians, they are Satanists. If you want to be as ignorant and misguided as all the RHPers who accept that Lucifer is Satan take it elsewhere. I mean, it insults me that one would consider themselves Luciferian while accepting ignorant mistranslations and misinterpretations. Lucifer has never actually been a specific entity outside of these ignorant misunderstandings.
Yes, GNOSTIC Luciferians. The belief in deities, spiritual enlightenment, etc are all aspects of Gnosticism. The quest for Gnosis, for self perfection, that is the Luciferian aspect. I suppose that if we had a Thelemic Satanist on the forum, that would mean that all Satanists follow the beliefs of Thelema or or that all Thelemites believe in Satan? No, they are separate concepts. There are Thelemic Christians, Thelemic Luciferians, Thelemic Satanists, etc etc etc. Let's try thinking things through...
Bearing the light, not sharing the light. Here you have proven you do not understand the path. To bear the light means to carry it, not to share it. One must be a student to gain knowledge, but not necessarily a teacher.
This is kind of why I dropped the title. I do not think that there is only one type of Luciferian. There is the kind like Twig, Iti, and I and the kind like Jason. I think Jason is Luciferian, as he said, he is Satan's Lucifer. That fits for me, he bears the light of Satanism. Jason's beliefs seem nothing like mine, yet we are both Luciferian. Just like Peter Gilmore's beliefs and Mindmasters (just picked a random RF Satanist) are drastically different, yet they are both Satanists.
which is why i stick to calling myself lucifer instead of luciferian.
also my concept of both lucifer and luciferian take a lot from the Prometheus model so teaching is a huge part of my path.
I made the same argument they are gnostics. nor has it been clearly stated they belived or worshiped lucifer or just ingeneral theism and all the links say its minor. finaly how many people will think im a god who was worshipped in thousand years from now when internet archeologist dig up old posts about my user name.
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
I think these are fair statements, but I have also invoked Lucifer too. I think you could say that the concept of Lucifer is three things;
a real and ancient deity of air, intelligence, and light
a highly personal, inner-realized form of the type of person I strive to be (that bearing light, for others, to help others)
a general symbol for truth, understanding, and wisdom
Are you or are you not self-identified as a Luciferian? You can't have your cake and eat it too, saying you don't take the label while still posting in the same faiths debates.
This is irrelevant; as most Theistic Luciferians do not see Satan and Lucifer as the same thing, your assertion that Lucifer is taken from a mistranslation and misinterpretation needs something to back it up, I'll agree Lucifer is not Satan, but that doesn't mean that there is not an actual deity called Lucifer.
I would get Shuddhasttva in here, as he (as a Luciferian) knows a HUGE amount on the subject, but he earlier told me he lost interest. I might be able to convince him, as he knows much more than me on the subject and can give you the information on the claim I made of hundreds of years.
How can I bear a torch, without it giving off light? What? Do you hide light, or do you share it for all to see? Don't you get it? You do not hide a lamp under the bed, you put it on a stand so that all can see. To hide light is to leave others in the dark, to bear light is to HOLD THE ******* LIGHT which will allow not just yourself but others to see. When one "bears" a flag, don't they hold it up high for all to see? Why would you do differently when bearing light in the middle of darkness? Intentionally leaving others in the darkness reeks of certain arrogance and inflated-sense-of-importance. This elitist bull **** of hiding light, creating darkness in doing so and all is not Luciferianism because it conceals the truth, and has been done by the Right Hand Path for years. If you want to be apathetic to the plight of ignorance, go ahead. But I will share all that I know with everyone who asks.
I agree with jason about baring light for other people. look at all the example of lucifers we use from myth and history. All of them bore light for others.
Which is why this lhp path works so well for me and my humanistic tendencies. but again i call myself lucifer not luciferian.
Which is why this lhp path works so well for me and my humanistic tendencies. but again i call myself lucifer not luciferian.
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
Emphasis added.
That's true (lol why didn't I think of that), all the great Lucifers we know of bared it for other people to see as well. Prometheus BROUGHT us fire, so why wouldn't Lucifers bring the light to people as well? To hold the torch and hide it is contrary to all the Lucifers that people still remember, and which we base our symbolism, mythos, or whatever on. I'm a Luciferian largely because I want to help people, to be perfectly honest. Helping other people I can empathize with not only makes me feel good, but in the pursuit of getting to that place I better myself. In helping others I can feel empathy for, it's like helping them is helping me in a sense, as I can feel what their feeling, and as I feel them helped I feel as if I also helped myself grow at the same time. It's probably largely due to some psychological wiring, since feeling their emotions the whole time gears my brain into being helped as they are helped.
Meaning that as I hold the light for others to see as we both walk, I gain from helping them more insights, and grow myself, the flame of the light growing brighter, ad infinite (theoretically that is).
... I guess not openly calling myself a Luciferian and throwing around the label means I am not one. I didn't realize that everyone knowing where I stand with the guarantee of misunderstanding it was a prereq.
No all of us need everyone to blatantly know where we stand.
Luciferians today sure, though there seem to be very few theistics are not actually Satanists. If you are unaware of the Isaiah issue, look it up.
That'd be interesting.
Yeah, if you can show me where I said this is the way to go I would love that. I simply said there is nothing wrong with the perspective. Bearing the light does not equate to sharing it. Some people I just do not find are worth the time to try and cure their ignorance, though that is only after trying.
I want to touch on something else here. It sickens me that the occult and Left-Hand Path is so perverted these days. Since when is the hidden about wearing a label on your sleeve, throwing information at anyone who crosses your path, etc. You speak for all these occultists from the past and **** on everything the occult stands for. It's not about running around screaming "I'm a Satanist" , burning bibles and spitting on crosses, making huge rants explaining all the knowledge one has, creating intricate charts of your entire beliefs and posting it all over the forums, etc. I am sick of debating with you Jason, I do not have the slightest shred of respect for you, and I'm finished with you.
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jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
Tell me if you change your mind.
I was contemplating why I do not like the title, and I realized it is because of all this nonsense. Nobody has anything useful to throw into the mix. I agree that Twig witholding the light is absurd just as I think Jason's whole PoV on the subject is absurd.
Lucifer has never been a specific entity outside of mistranslation. To worship a deity name Lucifer makes no sense, not even historically. This argument of "well they did it in historical times" is unsupported and irrelevant. They also thought the world was flat in historical times, you can go pray to Lucifer that you do not fall off the ends of the earth.
Lucifer means "light-bearer" and can also go with Day Star, Shining One, Bright Morning Star, etc etc etc. These are titles. The king of Babylon tried to ascend to heaven and was called shining one. The serpent in the guardian gave us divine / occult knowledge. Jesus was the bright morning star after reaching his mystical enlightenment. Even in the twisted Christian mythologies, Lucifer was an angel who wanted God's throne. None of this rejects the idea of greater deities, rather it shows that the Luciferian path is a quest for self perfection / self divinity. Looking outside Judaism and Christianity, Prometheus was not a deity but a figure who helped humanity advance and become independent. Thoth was the God of knowledge and wisdom, yet he was the consort of Ma'at, not the actually divinity behind the universe (which Ma'at can be seen as). There is no instance where Lucifer is one specific entity, rather one seeking equality with the divine. All this can be seen symbolically of course, as it is all mythology, but that changes nothing.
It's nice to finally understand the title again, feels like coming into being
Lucifer has never been a specific entity outside of mistranslation. To worship a deity name Lucifer makes no sense, not even historically. This argument of "well they did it in historical times" is unsupported and irrelevant. They also thought the world was flat in historical times, you can go pray to Lucifer that you do not fall off the ends of the earth.
Lucifer means "light-bearer" and can also go with Day Star, Shining One, Bright Morning Star, etc etc etc. These are titles. The king of Babylon tried to ascend to heaven and was called shining one. The serpent in the guardian gave us divine / occult knowledge. Jesus was the bright morning star after reaching his mystical enlightenment. Even in the twisted Christian mythologies, Lucifer was an angel who wanted God's throne. None of this rejects the idea of greater deities, rather it shows that the Luciferian path is a quest for self perfection / self divinity. Looking outside Judaism and Christianity, Prometheus was not a deity but a figure who helped humanity advance and become independent. Thoth was the God of knowledge and wisdom, yet he was the consort of Ma'at, not the actually divinity behind the universe (which Ma'at can be seen as). There is no instance where Lucifer is one specific entity, rather one seeking equality with the divine. All this can be seen symbolically of course, as it is all mythology, but that changes nothing.
It's nice to finally understand the title again, feels like coming into being
jasonwill2
Well-Known Member
I was contemplating why I do not like the title, and I realized it is because of all this nonsense. Nobody has anything useful to throw into the mix. I agree that Twig witholding the light is absurd just as I think Jason's whole PoV on the subject is absurd.
Lucifer has never been a specific entity outside of mistranslation. To worship a deity name Lucifer makes no sense, not even historically. This argument of "well they did it in historical times" is unsupported and irrelevant. They also thought the world was flat in historical times, you can go pray to Lucifer that you do not fall off the ends of the earth.
Lucifer means "light-bearer" and can also go with Day Star, Shining One, Bright Morning Star, etc etc etc. These are titles. The king of Babylon tried to ascend to heaven and was called shining one. The serpent in the guardian gave us divine / occult knowledge. Jesus was the bright morning star after reaching his mystical enlightenment. Even in the twisted Christian mythologies, Lucifer was an angel who wanted God's throne. None of this rejects the idea of greater deities, rather it shows that the Luciferian path is a quest for self perfection / self divinity. Looking outside Judaism and Christianity, Prometheus was not a deity but a figure who helped humanity advance and become independent. Thoth was the God of knowledge and wisdom, yet he was the consort of Ma'at, not the actually divinity behind the universe (which Ma'at can be seen as). There is no instance where Lucifer is one specific entity, rather one seeking equality with the divine. All this can be seen symbolically of course, as it is all mythology, but that changes nothing.
It's nice to finally understand the title again, feels like coming into being
In other words you are 180'ing because you want to debate with us again.?
Wow... Just wow...
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