For the Christians (Abrahamic only)

[Sleeppy]

Take my offer of asking God to settle this for us Elijah style or I'll take that as you being too afraid to put your money where your mouth is.

What are you looking to ask God?

 

[Shermana]

What are you looking to ask God?

To settle this matter for us with a blatant display of who is wrong, since all attempt at reasoned debate have proven fruitless.

 

[Sleeppy]

To settle this matter for us with a blatant display of who is wrong, since all attempt at reasoned debate have proven fruitless.

Do you believe God will settle this, and not everything else? Or vice versa?


If we may provide a blatant sign to the entire Earth, we should. But, not even Christ has accomplished this (yet). Are we able to act on His behalf?

 

[Shermana]

Do you believe God will settle this, and not everything else? Or vice versa?


If we may provide a blatant sign to the entire Earth, we should. But, not even Christ has accomplished this (yet). Are we able to act on His behalf?

So I'm assuming you snipped out the verses that explicitly say that God will do anything a believer asks of Him if it's in His will?

Why would it not be God's will to resolve an issue that could help undermine false teachings and promote the Truth?

Why did God bother dealing with Jeremiah and the False Prophets?

What kind of blatant sign do you think the world would accept exactly?

 

[Sleeppy]

So I'm assuming you snipped out the verses that explicitly say that God will do anything a believer asks of Him if it's in His will?

Why would it not be God's will to resolve an issue that could help undermine false teachings and promote the Truth?

Why did God bother dealing with Jeremiah and the False Prophets?

What kind of blatant sign do you think the world would accept exactly?

I've heard and seen many things. My understanding, and my will- Where do they originate? Flesh? Spirit? Both? Or do these spring up irrespective of God?

I can admit, my memory is ridiculously short. But memorizing and comparing Scripture is fairly easy, because it's literally my favorite thing to do.

I believe. I believe in God's will irrespective of all perception. I'm to the point where I feel completely confident that His will is being done irrespective of my asking or questioning. Abraham pleaded. Moses reasoned. I saw the flaws in their perceptions, according to the understanding, and the will given to me.

So when Jesus prayed that the cup be removed, it could not. Irrespective of whether He actually believed it would. God doesn't require prayer. Not to hear, not to know, and not to do His will. Man was given prayer. And it is power. But, God has already allotted truth as it will be. And Jesus prayed three times, the same prayer, but His disciples were allowed to sleep. But, others heard. And we are according to the first who heard.

'The spirit is forward', says Jesus, 'but the flesh is weak.' He gave them a command to watch, at the very least. Now He's warning them. But each time they fell asleep again, falling to the temptation of their flesh. The words of those prayers speak to me. At first, He prayed so that the cup would pass. The remaining two times, He affirms God's will.

As the disciples fell asleep for the second and third times, He affirmed that His own rest was fast approaching. Judas, whether by Satan or by the will of God, came to deliver, 'according to the Scriptures.' As I perceive it, Judas is vindicated. Both in the guilt offering of his own flesh, and in his Rabbi's. The temptation of the flesh may or may not be prayed away. Death must occur before anyone is raised. We drink from this cup before it will pass.

If you are willing to pray, we should pray as Jesus did. I will pray with you, and we will be two testifying and binding on Earth what is in Heaven. And the Kingdom comes nearer! Amen.

 

[Shermana]

Would you like to pray that those who unrepentantly speak falsehoods and refuse correction and refuse to hear what is true and push what is not true be silenced and made unable to do so and be humbled greatly?

 

[Sleeppy]

Would you like to pray that those who unrepentantly speak falsehoods and refuse correction and refuse to hear what is true and push what is not true be silenced and made unable to do so and be humbled greatly?

The Law and the prophets necessitate it! So be it. I leap in anticipation for the coming Kingdom!!

 

[Shermana]

The Law and the prophets necessitate it! So be it. I leap in anticipation for the coming Kingdom!!

Amen! May those who militantly and obstinantly preach heresy and lies, and refuse to hear and address the truth be brought to shame and silence. Amen, amen!

 

[Pegg]

The concept of 'EVEN until the thousandth generation" is obviously an idiom to mean "FOREVER".

And we're still on around generation 200-300 or so.

And Jesus says Heaven and Earth will collapse before the Law is void. (Another way of saying FOREVER).

Sorry if that pokes a hole in your argument in trying to say that God was a liar.

It's quite clear what these antinomians think about God's word, not to mention Jesus's.

for all intents and purposes, the covenant 'for a kingdom' is everlasting. But that 'kingdom' is not the nation of Isreal!

The kingdom belongs to the Messiah...and to that faithful one, the covenant is most certainly everlasting. Those from mankind who make up the members of that kingdom are also everlasting.... but they are not from one particular nation such as Israel....they are individuals whom God chooses and some of them are people from the nations.

To them, the kingdom covenant is indefinitely lasting.

 

[Pegg]

Then the covenant should have been eternally void right after Rehoboam. Explain that one.

the Messiah still had not arrived in Rehoboam's day.


The covenant 'for a kingdom' was promised to the seed of Abraham....the Messiah is that seed.

 

[Pegg]

Moses has no power.


They would be followers of G-d

yes, but they would do so through the words/teachings of Moses.

The directions given by moses were the way Isreal could enter into a relationship with God.

And likewise, the directions given by Jesus were the way the rest of mankind could enter into a relationship with God.

 

[Shermana]

the Messiah still had not arrived in Rehoboam's day.


The covenant 'for a kingdom' was promised to the seed of Abraham....the Messiah is that seed.

Then the covenant persisted with the Jerusalem Church and whoever followed after their manner.

But I have no reason to believe that only the Messiah was referred to as the Seed of Abraham.

 

[Shermana]

yes, but they would do so through the words/teachings of Moses.

The directions given by moses were the way Isreal could enter into a relationship with God.

And likewise, the directions given by Jesus were the way the rest of mankind could enter into a relationship with God.

And those directions include complete total obedience to the Law. The Law that Moses gave.

Anyone who teaches to break and breaks the least of them shall be called the least in the Kingdom.

Those who disobey the Law, no matter if they do miracles in his name, will be kicked out as "Doers of lawlessness".

 

[Shermana]

for all intents and purposes, the covenant 'for a kingdom' is everlasting. But that 'kingdom' is not the nation of Isreal!

The kingdom belongs to the Messiah...and to that faithful one, the covenant is most certainly everlasting. Those from mankind who make up the members of that kingdom are also everlasting.... but they are not from one particular nation such as Israel....they are individuals whom God chooses and some of them are people from the nations.

To them, the kingdom covenant is indefinitely lasting.

Jesus is the "King of the Jews".

Even by your own Paul, you gentiles are to be "Grafts" to the tree. The Tree doesn't change to the graft.

Jesus only came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. His death included. All nations are to be made disciples out of. But what do you think Cornelius did before Paul entered the picture?

 

[Pegg]

Then the covenant persisted with the Jerusalem Church and whoever followed after their manner.

But I have no reason to believe that only the Messiah was referred to as the Seed of Abraham.

“The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. It says, not: ‘And to seeds,’ as in the case of many such, but as in the case of one: ‘And to your seed,’ who is Christ.” (Galatians 3:16) The Seed through whom the nations were to bless themselves did not include all of Abraham’s offspring


Many of Abrahams offspring proved themselves to be false to the covenant. They went on worshiping false gods and apostasized from true worship and the mosaic covenant.

So how could all Israel be part of the seed?

 

[Shermana]

Apparently you missed the part where they were reconciled when they stopped worshiping idols.

Wow, the arguments of supercessionists resort to some very strange ideas, it's as if they haven't actually read the Hebrew scriptures or something.

 

[Pegg]

Then the covenant persisted with the Jerusalem Church and whoever followed after their manner.

The Jerusalem church were not practising Judaism ...they were christians.

But I have no reason to believe that only the Messiah was referred to as the Seed of Abraham.

not even when the text uses the 'singular' rather then plural?

 

[Pegg]

Jesus is the "King of the Jews".

Even by your own Paul, you gentiles are to be "Grafts" to the tree. The Tree doesn't change to the graft.

Jesus only came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. His death included. All nations are to be made disciples out of. But what do you think Cornelius did before Paul entered the picture?

Cornelius didnt convert to Judaism... when the apostle Peter was told to enter cornelius's house, he did not want to enter the house of a gentile because they were viewed as unclean

yet when he got there, holy spirit was given to Cornelius...a gentile! How could that be?

Someone who did not follow the customs of Moses or the jewish faith received holy spirit from God.


This proved that God did not require a person to be an adherent of the mosaic law. The person had to live a righteous life and put their faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Pegg]

Apparently you missed the part where they were reconciled when they stopped worshiping idols.

Wow, the arguments of supercessionists resort to some very strange ideas, it's as if they haven't actually read the Hebrew scriptures or something.

Christianity teaches the righteous requirements of the mosaic law... it doesnt teach adherence to the 613 laws as a matter of requirement to be a christian... it teaches the principles of morality, righteousness, justice, kindness, goodness and faith

Do you really think that people cannot live such a life without the mosaic law?

How can that be when Abraham and Noah and Able lived such lives without knowledge of the mosaic law????

 

[Shermana]

The Jerusalem church were not practising Judaism ...they were christians.

The Jerusalem Church practiced the Law. End of story. I will not even tolerate or entertain any steaming claptrap that says otherwise, or tries to say that they were merely holding on to the Mosaic Law because they were too caught up in tradition.

And I really don't want have to explain again the difference between the Pharisee's "Manmade traditions" that constitutes what we would call "Judaism" in this sense versus a more "Reactionary" version of the Law.

not even when the text uses the 'singular' rather then plural?

The word "Seed" is constantly used in the singular to define an entire harvest of several members. This is just getting shameful. I feel like even responding to this steaming bull excrement is beneath me.

Strong's Hebrew: 2233. ?????? (zera) -- a sowing, seed, offspring

http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/zara_2233.htm