For those who believe in God -Why have priests?

[DawudTalut]

I am working out how to relate to God and I feel I am making some level of progress.
But I have been wondering, what have priests and clergymen to offer that I am missing?

Peace be on you..The real role of this class is supposed to be helping masses towards God with true explantion of religion and peace in human society.

But corruption finds its way there too. The world finds itself in the grip of such so-called priests and clergies in various times. In modern times, they are being the tools of some material powers and killing innocent people worldwide. They and their hidden supporters are not doing any good to themselves too. It is time for world to realize and get united to curtail them by checking the nurseries, from where they grow; by helping countries, from where these so-called clergies emerge by making fasle promises of solving problems of people.



The fasle one have three things in common:
1- They are recognized within an already established religion.
2- They do not struggle to change the corruptions in a society.
3- They are part of existing political system and they take side of existing power base.

How essentially different is the case of the Divinely appointed prophets, the upholders of the Unity of God who founded great religions of the world such as Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism etc. If we examine the lives of Moses as, Jesus as or Muhammad sa and other similar prophets who claimed Divine origin, we shall invariably discover that none among them ever represented a well-established and popular religious order. Theirs was a lone voice of revolution. Invariably they based their claims on revelation and advocated a new philosophy demanding a completely different way of life. They preached values which were at odds with the prevailing customs and practices. They always emerged as harbingers of a new order and dared to challenge the prevailing religious authorities of the time. They appeared at a time when the dominant religions of the age had already split into sects and schisms, and fought among themselves for gaining greater domination over the ignorant masses...........

More:https://www.alislam.org/library/books/revelation/part_3_section_1.html

 

[sandandfoam]

Hold on! Red flag! Clergy aren't considered "superior" to the laity. Speaking for Xy, all ministry is, at its base, baptismal ministry. The ministry of the laity is general; the ministry of the clergy is a "called-out" ministry for a specific purpose. But both are authorized by virtue of baptism.
The clergy are called out of the membership and set apart from the laity for this specific ministry of leadership. So, no one is "higher" than anyone else.

The specific ministry of the clergy is leadership. Every community needs leadership that is at least somewhat set apart to coordinate interaction, to provide focus, to set direction, to help maintain momentum, to maintain some objectivity in order to foster perspective and to oversee group dynamics. I don't know of any community that doesn't have some semblance of set-apart or recognized leadership. In the context of the church community, there is a further, more theological purpose.

Leadership/laity is the differential vehicle by which a communal energy and a communal dynamic is created. The theological term for it is perichoresis, or "rotation/completion of a cycle." It mirrors in the purely human setting of the church community the same dynamic we believe is present when God reaches out to us, we respond, and God works transformation in us that allows us to serve God more fully.

Since we believe that the church community reflects the community of the spiritual realm in the dynamics of its relationships, such differentiated leadership is necessary in order to reflect the relational dynamic of a God that is differentiated from God's people, and yet working in concert with God's people in this dynamic of perichoresis.

Thank you. I'm not sure I agree but I now Think I understand your pov which I did not before.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, leadership and community functions aren't really central to a Hindu 'priest's' work. Not sure if that makes any sense at all. It does to me.

A Priest, Pandit, Pujari, Iyer, Kurrukkal, of a Hindu temple, as Vinayaka says, is basically to take care of the temple and the idol, and help the devotees in their rituals. He may be influential and well-read, in that case he will play some role in the society, but that depends on the person himself. That is my understanding. Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda's guru, was basically a temple priest. They have families.

Idk about preists but maybe monks. .. and those whose experiences have lead them to diehard faith, then you start to spend a lot of time in prayer.

Depends on the monk. A realized monk may not have any further need of any prayer.

 

[Contemplative Cat]

That is egomania, people who think they no longer need to meditate just provide lip service but act as a worldly person.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I am working out how to relate to God and I feel I am making some level of progress.
But I have been wondering, what have priests and clergymen to offer that I am missing?

As we walk through the dark maze, it's fortifying to seek out people who've been further in the maze to guide you through it.

If you try to get through it alone, you are more likely to get lost.

If you depend too much on these guiders, you could be misled.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I have been wondering, what have priests and clergymen to offer that I am missing?

These days, nothing!

Which is why Baha'is believe in God but have no clergy of any sort.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[metis]

And how to you propose those that devote their lives to further benefit yours do so without support? Isn't this a sort of entitlement view that the Universe, or society, or the government, or God owes you the benefit of this? If you wish a religious instructor who has to work 70 hours a week between Walmart and the local drive-through to feed his family should also feed you too in his spare time without your support, by all means criticize. Enjoy the goodness of his heart.

I don't know how this supposedly relates to "entitlement" or that God somehow owes me a "benefit", especially since I'm non-theistic. Plus the issue is not saving money, to me, but directing it elsewhere whereas I feel it can do greater good along with not having people go into the ministry just for the sake of wages. There are some churches and synagogues that do not have paid clergy, and they seem to be able to survive.

Now my synagogue does have a paid rabbi, whom I get along very well with, btw, but when he's on vacation, such as right now, we can still very much function without him. Fortunately, the lay at my synagogue are very active, including running services without any rabbi as we've done over the last three weeks.

 

[fantome profane]

I am working out how to relate to God and I feel I am making some level of progress.
But I have been wondering, what have priests and clergymen to offer that I am missing?

The thing you have to realize is that belief is hard. Most people just don't have the time, or perhaps the interest, to put in the kind of effort that you have.

I believe that one day in the not too distant future technology will advance to the point where we will build devices to do this hard work for us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJq8QjLI-so

Until that day some will still choose to employ human "belief contractors".

 

[Vinayaka]

That is egomania, people who think they no longer need to meditate just provide lip service but act as a worldly person.

The cows all need to eat. You have to feed them.

Dedicated Hindu and Buddhist monks always do daily meditation without fail. So do dedicated practitioners. Nobody is 'beyond' meditation, even the greatest of seers. Editted to add ... if not meditation, at least some bhakti, or a puja. Not all people are ready for meditation, but they can still do attention, and reflection.

 

[gilligan8914]

I am working out how to relate to God and I feel I am making some level of progress.
But I have been wondering, what have priests and clergymen to offer that I am missing?

Priest and clergy have nothing to offer anyone seeking truth. Religion is a profitable business. If there were no profit in it, it would barely exist.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't know how this supposedly relates to "entitlement" or that God somehow owes me a "benefit", especially since I'm non-theistic. Plus the issue is not saving money, to me, but directing it elsewhere whereas I feel it can do greater good along with not having people go into the ministry just for the sake of wages. There are some churches and synagogues that do not have paid clergy, and they seem to be able to survive.

Your original comment was, "I would prefer having religious leaders lead for strictly religious reasons and not just a way to earn a paycheck." First of all, this presupposes they are in it strictly for the money. "Just a way to earn a pay check", narrows it down to that, and that motive only. It claims they are not doing this because they see it as an important service to others. That's pretty judgmental, don't you think?

Secondly, even though a small congregation may be able to have the pastor, rabbi, or whoever work full time at the post office or wherever and then take responsibilities of the church on top it it, a larger congregation would not allow for that amount of time required to administrate the needs of that group, let alone to be able to deal with the sheer number of people who need his or her insights and advice as a leader of the congregation. This seems so obvious I'm not sure what I need to bring it up.

Thirdly, if they devote their lives to a specialty requiring education, deep personal time in reflection and research, in order to bring anything of true value to the group in the role of a minister; in other words someone who actually knows what they're doing, this requires the time and resources to do this. That requires financial support. You get what you pay for, really.

I
Now my synagogue does have a paid rabbi, whom I get along very well with, btw, but when he's on vacation, such as right now, we can still very much function without him. Fortunately, the lay at my synagogue are very active, including running services without any rabbi as we've done over the last three weeks.

I enjoy people who look at their limited personal experience and extend it to the whole world in their passing judgment.

 

[metis]

Your original comment was, "I would prefer having religious leaders lead for strictly religious reasons and not just a way to earn a paycheck." First of all, this presupposes they are in it strictly for the money. "Just a way to earn a pay check", narrows it down to that, and that motive only. It claims they are not doing this because they see it as an important service to others. That's pretty judgmental, don't you think?

Secondly, even though a small congregation may be able to have the pastor, rabbi, or whoever work full time at the post office or wherever and then take responsibilities of the church on top it it, a larger congregation would not allow for that amount of time required to administrate the needs of that group, let alone to be able to deal with the sheer number of people who need his or her insights and advice as a leader of the congregation. This seems so obvious I'm not sure what I need to bring it up.

Thirdly, if they devote their lives to a specialty requiring education, deep personal time in reflection and research, in order to bring anything of true value to the group in the role of a minister; in other words someone who actually knows what they're doing, this requires the time and resources to do this. That requires financial support. You get what you pay for, really.


I enjoy people who look at their limited personal experience and extend it to the whole world in their passing judgment.

You are misrepresenting what I was saying, having me imply that somehow that I was saying that anyone who goes into the paid ministry is only doing so for money, which I never stated or implied. You also put ideas into my mouth after that that I simply have not enunciated nor implied, but instead of actually asking what I believe about X, you assume the worse.

Our conversation is now over.

Shalom

 

[Windwalker]

You are misrepresenting what I was saying, having me imply that somehow that I was saying that anyone who goes into the paid ministry is only doing so for money, which I never stated or implied. You also put ideas into my mouth after that that I simply have not enunciated nor implied, but instead of actually asking what I believe about X, you assume the worse.

Our conversation is now over.

Shalom

I stated why your words left little room for reinterpretation. You ignored that. Suit yourself if you don't wish to take responsibility for your own words.

 

[gilligan8914]

I will say it if metis wont. Stop paying clergymen and there will be 90% fewer of them. If you doubt it, just ask any paid clergyman if he would continue in his work without pay. If the answer is yes, then cut off the pay. When you cut off the pay, the clergyman is gone.