There is nothing here that explains the meaning of Jesus being the root and offspring of David, or that Jesus is God.
AC,
You need to be carefull when saying "Jesus is not God". For this is where we all get confused. Isa 9:6 calls him "Mighty God", John 1:1 calls him "God", John 20:28 Thomas calls him "My God" and so on... So to say Jesus is not God, I must assume you mean Father or God Almighty or something like that...
I also looked up John 5:23 and it does speak of honoring the Son "even as" they honor the Father. I think that "even as" doesn't actually or necessarily mean "as the same,"
That could be a grave mistake. The JW's and alike have been unwilling to render Jesus their worship. i believe this is a big mistake.
I honor Jesus for who the bible says he is...the Son of God, the risen Christ and Savior of repented man. And I honor the Father for who and what he is, God. The God of Jesus and the God of us. That is not dishonoring either of them.
i agree that this is not wrong, but like most JW's, your view of Jesus is narrow, not exactly exploring who he was before he emptied himself and became human. My question would be this: If God has an Image for us to relate to, wouldnt you Worship that Image exactly how you would plan to worship God?
1Cr 10:1 For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3 and all ate the same spiritual food;
1Cr 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
What doesnt Paul want the brothers to be aware of?
but does show that they are not one and the same, one is the father, the other his son.
Yes I agree, i am a Trinitarian not a Oneness Pent. Anyways the English word "And" looses some of the meanings in some peoples mind. Good Examples
1. Peace be with you, from Jehovah God and our Saviour.
2. Peace be with you, from God the Father and Lord Jesus our saviour.
in the OT to read Jehovah as God and Saviour is no problem. But when revealed to us through Jesus Christ we all disagree with eachother. The Greek word used for "and" is dia and is not a seperating word. Anyways, I think you see my point although you dont agree. (That line 2 is the fullfillment of line 1)
As for 1 John 1:1-5, I see here in verse 2 that it says "which was with the Father
AC,
John calls Jesus the "Etenal Life" that was with the Father. Yet every JW I have ever come across wants to say Jesus is a created being that had no eternal life until the Father gave it to him. i challage that because the Father only needed to give the eternal life "BACK" to Jesus because Jesus "EMPTIED HIMSELF" of the eternal life to become human. (Phil 2:5-8)
Phl 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Phl 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
You may not have a problem calling Jesus, Jehovah, but I would, as although some of those titles are applied to Jesus, some are applied to others also, such as Nebuchadrezzar and Artaxerxes, as they are both called "King of Kings" and "Lord of lords" in the OT, and this does not make them God;
AC,
The problem here is that you are using other people's titles to define Jesus's. Read this scripture
Jhn 5:39 " You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
Jhn 5:40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
The Whole Bible is pointing to Jesus not vise versa. If King David was called the "Firstborn of God" its because Jesus is the Firstborn of God. One cannot say Jesus isnt truely the Firstborn because david was also called Gods Firstborn... The same with others that were representing God. Jesus isnt just representing God, he is God and part of God. All the represenatives going aound with devine titles are all pointing to Jesus and prophesies of Jesus. Jesus fullfills these completely where they fell short in their human nature. The Image of God expressing God by his very existance. No one else can share in Gods glory but the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
In John 10 he says..."..Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,Thou blasphemest: because I said, I am the Son of God?" It (the verse) isn't saying that he is one of the three persons of God, but that he is the Son.
It is clear in history that the term "SON OF" meant you where equal or of the same nature of that in whom you were son of. So if Jesus said he was "SON OF GOD" then he was saying What God is, I am. Jesus was also called the Son of Man, for he was truely a man too. What man is, Jesus also is.
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
The JEWs knew their language better than us today, and they understood what Jesus was saying... This passage is part of Gods word and not some random expression from the JEWs. Take the words "SON OF MAN" for example. With your own understanding of the term, "SON OF GOD", then Jesus cannot be a man either. (because hes the Son of Man) The very term means what his nature is equal to. That is why you see trinitarians call Jesus the God Man, for he is both Son of Man and Son of God, equal in nature. But before becomming a man, he was God and with God.(no man)
As Slo often posts, no one can see God or ever will, and uses scripture to back that up.
unless Jesus reveals it to you!
Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].
Jhn 14:9 Jesus [!] said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
AC,
Jesus is the Image of God. To see Jesus is to see God. Sometimes i wounder what a JW would say to Jesus at this point if in philips shoes?
Hbr 1:3 [fn]And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and [fn]upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
But God can not be approached, which is also been shown by verses posted by Slo in the past, so there is no need for me to do so again.
Niether Father or Son can be approached in all their Glory. They have in the past either veiled their glory or gave a special individual strength to not die.
Isa 6:5 Then I said, "Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts."
Isaiah Saw Jehovah and we now know that Jesus is the Image of God. That Isaaih saw Jesus as Jehovah, the Image of God.
Jhn 12:38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?"
Jhn 12:39 For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again,
Jhn 12:40 "HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND [fn]BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM."
Jhn 12:41 These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him.
Never does the bible say one can lift Jesus up too high or view him as God as wrong. What we do see however is this
2Cr 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled [fn]to those who are perishing,
2Cr 4:4 in whose case the god of this [fn]world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving [fn]so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Cr 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants [fn]for Jesus' sake.
2Cr 4:6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
i will look at your links soon...