• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Forever drifting

Treks

Well-Known Member
I'm tired of this spiritual drift. A blog I had seven years ago still describes me today. Much has happened, but nothing much has changed. Stuck in between the beliefs I keep returning to, and the cultural disconnect the religion associated with those beliefs creates in me.

No other holy text speaks so plainly to me of "the truth" than the Sikh scripture. But culturally I do not fit into the Sikh community, and many elements of the religion called Sikhi seem over-and-above what the scripture actually describes. The religion seems to be a colourful Punjabi wrapper around the priceless gem of truth. I understand how this wrapper came to be and that without it we wouldn't have access to the scripture today. But does that mean the wrapper and the truth are now inseparable?

I do not want to steal (appropriate) another culture's religion and then twist it by rejecting what I perceive to be extraneous cultural influences. But what am I to do if I genuinely believe Sikh scripture provides the best description of God and spiritual way of life that there is? Who am I to draw lines around what it is and isn't?

I've tried to find connection in religions that are more culturally appropriate to me, but they simply just do not speak to me. Lately I've been trying hard to connect with Christianity, but I just can't. It also seems overly complicated, and it asks me to believe all sorts of things that I struggle to accept. Sikhi doesn't ask this of me.

When I have strength to accept the reality of my situation I know that the only rational way forward is to simply accept the Gurbani and quietly follow it with humility and without fanfare. Nobody needs to know. It is the truth and it is spectacular, so that should be enough. But I'm human, and I get lonely, and I want to fit in and connect with others. Yet, this is impossible. So I abandon Sikhi and turn to a culturally appropriate religion where I can join the masses and sing familiar songs and identify with a group who welcome me with ease. But of course that is a hollow path on which I lack genuine belief. It is still not fitting in.

What am I missing? Which piece will help complete this puzzle? (rhetorical questions)
 
Last edited:

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
I can see where you're coming from. Your relationship with Sikhism is not a far cry from my relationship with Advaita Vedanta.

Like you, my core beliefs are identical to the philosophy, but there are cultural variances that prevent me from calling myself Hindu or Advaitin, as I feel to do so would be an affront to the people of that culture. Wanting a sense of community with those whose beliefs I shared, I went to meetings and a puja, but I felt a bit out of sorts, by no fault of theirs; they were very welcoming.

Ultimately, I withdrew and focused inward in my practice through reading and meditation. It is likely that I've solidified my understanding of existence and my worldview more through these practices than I might have practicing as part of a group, and I now find myself quite content with where I am.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Dear Treks,

I am sorry to hear that you find yourself today in the same position, spiritually and religiously, as you were back when we first encountered each other on the Sikh Philosophy forums.

You were a moderator back then and to think, that was at the start of this decade! 2019, where has the time gone.

It must have been about 2012, before I joined RF. We had a number of discussions at the time, if I recall, and I can vividly remember your struggles as a Westerner - passionate about Sikhi and dedicated to faithfully following hukam - finding the philosophy that so spoke to you through the universalist message of the Guru Granth Sahib ji, shut off behind a cultural veil that many in the Gurdwaras you visited were adamant had to come with the faith.

Your words to me then were that Sikhism was a "half-religion", in your judgement, in the sense that the teachings of the Gurus and sants proper had been supplemented with many uniquely Punjabi customs in the Dasam Granth, which made it hard for those outside an Indian milieu to practise the timeless wisdom of Nanak in a manner that feels natural to them. You told me that you had nevertheless become, "comfortable with Sikhi as my main dish with a little bit of Unitarian Universalism on the side". If I may ask, did you ever try the UU or the Quakers again?

I was able to sympathise with you then, and still do today. Around that time, I was mulling conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy and found myself stonewalled by the emphasis the local deacon (who was instructing me in the tradition) placed upon the linguistic and cultural issues.

There was another young man who was in the 'cohort' with me, a Catholic like myself. He eventually 'took the plunge', so to speak, and was baptised into the Orthodox Church. He became 'more Greek than the Greeks,' even taking lessons in the language so that he could participate properly in the Divine Liturgy and marrying a Greek girl.

It just never worked out for me. I retain, to this day, a deep and abiding respect for hesychasm and other aspects of the Eastern Christian tradition but the ethnophyletism ("tribaliam") I came into contact within in the Greek Orthodox Church really made me connect more with the emphatic universalism and cultural diversity of my birth tradition.

As I believe I told you back then, you must always remain true to yourself and the dictates of your conscience. I wish that Sikhi would create a denomination for Westerners who want the essence of the religion but struggle to find their place in the cultural matrix that it tends to come wrapped in, a bit like Jews had in the first century Roman Empire with the 'Noahide laws' for 'God-fearing Gentiles'. I suppose Christianity was really a 'Judaism-lite' for many Romans who - much like yourself with regards to Sikhi - didn't feel particularly welcomed in Hebraic synagogues, or desire to undergo adult male circumcision ("ouch!") but longed to worship the God of Abraham in a Roman way.

Are there not other Western Sikh converts who feel as you do? Could you not start a group that meets for regular devotionals and the like? It needn't have to be a formal gathering or connected with the official Khalsa. Just a gathering that could give you that sense of faith community with Sikhi at its heart.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I've tried to find connection in religions that are more culturally appropriate to me, but they simply just do not speak to me. Lately I've been trying hard to connect with Christianity, but I just can't. It also seems overly complicated, and it asks me to believe all sorts of things that I struggle to accept. Sikhi doesn't ask this of me.

Steal everything, if you wanna be a Christian philosophizing Sikh do it. It's no one else's business. If the goal is finding community, take up a hobby, far easier and lower expectations.

My path is basically constructed from countless others, but it's my path -- it fits like a glove. It's my head space, it doesn't have to make sense to or please anyone else. Spirituality is far too personal to even give the slightest consideration to someone else's views -- no two Christians, Sikhs, or whatever believe exactly the same thing. They "mostly agree" with it so call themselves X. Maybe all you are in the end is a Treks, and that's fine -- make your own rules. :D
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I'm tired of this spiritual drift. A blog I had seven years ago still describes me today. Much has happened, but nothing much has changed. Stuck in between the beliefs I keep returning to, and the cultural disconnect the religion associated with those beliefs creates in me.

No other holy text speaks so plainly to me of "the truth" than the Sikh scripture. But culturally I do not fit into the Sikh community, and many elements of the religion called Sikhi seem over-and-above what the scripture actually describes. The religion seems to be a colourful Punjabi wrapper around the priceless gem of truth. I understand how this wrapper came to be and that without it we wouldn't have access to the scripture today. But does that mean the wrapper and the truth are now inseparable?

I do not want to steal (appropriate) another culture's religion and then twist it by rejecting what I perceive to be extraneous cultural influences. But what am I to do if I genuinely believe their scripture provides the best description of God and spiritual way of life that there is? Who am I to draw lines around what it is and isn't?

I've tried to find connection in religions that are more culturally appropriate to me, but they simply just do not speak to me. Lately I've been trying hard to connect with Christianity, but I just can't. It also seems overly complicated, and it asks me to believe all sorts of things that I struggle to accept. Sikhi doesn't ask this of me.

When I have strength to accept the reality of my situation I know that the only rational way forward is to simply accept the Gurbani and quietly follow it with humility and without fanfare. Nobody needs to know. It is the truth and it is spectacular, so that should be enough. But I'm human, and I get lonely, and I want to fit in and connect with others. Yet, this is impossible. So I abandon Sikhi and turn to a culturally appropriate religion where I can join the masses and sing familiar songs and identify with a group who welcome me with ease. But of course that is a hollow path lacking genuine belief. It is still not fitting in.

What am I missing? Which piece will help complete this puzzle? (rhetorical questions)



Why do you Drift when deep down you know the answer? Real Truth does not depend on beliefs, accepting or cultures. Real Truth always adds up.

So what to do? How about this? You know God is Unconditional Love. This Unconditional Love connects every single person on earth regardless of beliefs. You can choose to be the Rock by which you can teach them all. You can give Unconditional Love to everyone. How many will be drawn to sit on that rock just to receive the relief from what troubles them in life? You might very well be surprised.

Let's not forget that Unconditional Love does not just give everyone everything they want. Unconditional Love always does what is Best for the other. Look deep at those who come to you. Their actions can show you what they really need.

AS I see it, God is in the process of teaching us all to Love Unconditionally. Maybe, you are already there and do not realize it.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I don't know how helpful, if at all, it will be for me to point this out, but I will try.

There are no shortcuts.

Where you put your faith is a terrible responsibility. How you decide to treat each element of tradition, what to consider meaningful teaching and what to consider cultural baggage, is also a serious responsibility.

There are no ways around that. You just have to be honest with yourself, avoid creating misunderstandings, and accept your limitations, including your needs for belonging.

Hopefully that will be enough to show you at least the general direction and accept that there is always some consequence.
 

Treks

Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone for your replies.

@SalixIncendium it's a great feeling to connect with other people in the same situation. I hope I can get to that same point of withdrawing inward and being content there. Do you also abstain from engaging with online communities of Advaita Vedanta folk?

@Vouthon your memory is quite astounding! Where has the time gone, indeed! I joined SPN around 2006. I am still there, but since the passing of admin jio (who I recall didn't take much of a liking to you!) the forum has been without firm guidance and has dwindled down to not much participation. I am still a volunteer, but there's not exactly much to do except try to bring new content there.

No, I didn't go back to the UUs and I have never approached the Quakers. I never knew you considered Eastern Orthodoxy! Wow! In my mind you've always been a stalwart Catholic, super sure of himself on a foundation of familial religious tradition and faith, and the theoretical knowledge of a scholar. It's reassuring to know that even someone like you has faced these kinds of questions.

I have a friend who likewise took the plunge into Punjabi culture along with her initiation into Sikhi, but it doesn't seem to have come to a good end. Sometimes she laments how she should have stayed in her own cultural realm instead of wrestling with the isolation of marrying into a family whose culture doesn't match her own. I hope your friend who "turned Greek" has found his place though, as I'm sure many are able to do.

The Western Sikhs I've met online have all seemed to take the obvious paths into the religion, whether that is the western yoga version of Sikhi that was created in America, a mainstream Sikh initiation, or the more intense versions of Sikh practice. The problem I have is that I'm struggling to see how many of the religious practices align with the spirituality and the scripture. For example, the religion requires adherents to keep uncut hair, but the scripture says you can have hair or be bald, it's your moral conduct that matters. I'm sure this is a problem so many people of all religions come across - apparent discrepancies between their scriptures and their religious traditions.

@Mindmaster Long time no see. Your advice is good and wise. How strange that we are surrounded by billions of our own species yet no two of us really believe the same things.

@Bird123 An optimistic reply, thank you.

@LuisDantas I don't quite follow what you're getting at. Yes, for some people where we put our faith is indeed very important and that fact isn't lost on us, and neither is the complexity of it, which causes so much internal conflict. Too right - there are no shortcuts, and "who am I to draw lines" around what is core Sikh teaching and what is cultural "baggage" as you put it? It truly seems that the most sensible and only realistic option is to follow Salix's lead and retreat quietly inwards. This is the best way to avoid misunderstandings.
 
Last edited:

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
@SalixIncendium it's a great feeling to connect with other people in the same situation. I hope I can get to that same point of withdrawing inward and being content there. Do you also abstain from engaging with online communities of Advaita Vedanta folk?

Aside from this forum, I never sought out online groups. I guess I'm more of a lurker when it comes to studies in the philosophy, learning from a few scholarly types here such as @atanu, @ameyAtmA, and @ajay0 and reading articles around the web. I guess I'm more of a 'listener' than a talker when it comes to such things, only speaking of things I've realized through my experiences.

That's not to say that if I did stumble upon an online community I wouldn't join in, but I'd likely be more of a lurker than anything else.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@Mindmaster Long time no see. Your advice is good and wise. How strange that we are surrounded by billions of our own species yet no two of us really believe the same things.

Where'd be the fun in that, anyway? :D

If anything is a standard in the vast scale of the universe, it's the remarkable whimsy of the whole thing. :D
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
I'm tired of this spiritual drift. A blog I had seven years ago still describes me today. Much has happened, but nothing much has changed. Stuck in between the beliefs I keep returning to, and the cultural disconnect the religion associated with those beliefs creates in me.

No other holy text speaks so plainly to me of "the truth" than the Sikh scripture. But culturally I do not fit into the Sikh community, and many elements of the religion called Sikhi seem over-and-above what the scripture actually describes. The religion seems to be a colourful Punjabi wrapper around the priceless gem of truth. I understand how this wrapper came to be and that without it we wouldn't have access to the scripture today. But does that mean the wrapper and the truth are now inseparable?

I do not want to steal (appropriate) another culture's religion and then twist it by rejecting what I perceive to be extraneous cultural influences. But what am I to do if I genuinely believe Sikh scripture provides the best description of God and spiritual way of life that there is? Who am I to draw lines around what it is and isn't?

I've tried to find connection in religions that are more culturally appropriate to me, but they simply just do not speak to me. Lately I've been trying hard to connect with Christianity, but I just can't. It also seems overly complicated, and it asks me to believe all sorts of things that I struggle to accept. Sikhi doesn't ask this of me.

When I have strength to accept the reality of my situation I know that the only rational way forward is to simply accept the Gurbani and quietly follow it with humility and without fanfare. Nobody needs to know. It is the truth and it is spectacular, so that should be enough. But I'm human, and I get lonely, and I want to fit in and connect with others. Yet, this is impossible. So I abandon Sikhi and turn to a culturally appropriate religion where I can join the masses and sing familiar songs and identify with a group who welcome me with ease. But of course that is a hollow path on which I lack genuine belief. It is still not fitting in.

This is poignant. Such a beautiful expression of 'longing' for a completeness that we all pine for -- in various ways perhaps.

What am I missing? Which piece will help complete this puzzle? (rhetorical questions)

Actually, you/we are missing nothing. It is like that musk deer that searches for the source of the fragrance of musk, but it won’t find it because the fragrance comes from within itself.

Happiness is Within – The Himalayan Musk Deer | Expanding Light
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
All religions are just a conceptual framework to attain nonconceptual awareness or love or compassion.

Imo, if you can understand this, you can be comfortable with any religion in your vicinity, learn from it and gather tools of utility from it.

Most people don't understand this fact, and instead create emotional identifications with their religious belief systems, leading to conflict with opposing belief systems , initiating strife, disharmony and consequent regressiveness.

This is similar to a firefighter spraying on flames with gasoline instead of water.

I make it a point to study religious systems, and I must say I am grateful for the insights I got from them all.:)
 
Top