Form where sun got its energy in the first place ?

[Heyo]

From trillions and trillions of tiny particles, that due to gravitational influences, eventually coalesced to form the star in question.

You are way off with your estimate. It is worse than saying there are dozens of people on earth.
A trillion is, in scientific notation, 10¹², a trillion trillion is 10²⁴. 10²⁴ particles fit in a shot-glass. The sun's volume is roughly on the order of a billion trillion trillion shot-glasses.
So it's more like a billion trillion trillion trillion trillion particles that coalesced to form the sun.

 

[YmirGF]

You are way off with your estimate. It is worse than saying there are dozens of people on earth.
A trillion is, in scientific notation, 10¹², a trillion trillion is 10²⁴. 10²⁴ particles fit in a shot-glass. The sun's volume is roughly on the order of a billion trillion trillion shot-glasses.
So it's more like a billion trillion trillion trillion trillion particles that coalesced to form the sun.

I'm sure glad you got that settled.

 

[syo]

in the first place ?

Gods.

 

[Valjean]

Gods.

So magic, then?

I think Chinu was looking for an explanation. "Gods" isn't an explanation, it's an attribution.
Is there some mechanism you could propose?

 

[Windwalker]

Kindly note: I am asking -- in the first place.
Form where sun got its energy in the first place ?

Definitely from its fathers side of the family. He was really quite bright and full of energy too. But its warmth and personality comes from its mother side of the family. Our sun is part of the Beam family tree. Other suns refer to our sun by its given family name Sun Beam, in case you were wondering.

 

[chinu]

Thank you all for the information and your valuable inputs.

 

[Mr. Ed]

 

[viole]

Kindly note: I am asking -- in the first place.
Form where sun got its energy in the first place ?

Everything with mass has energy. Tautologically, since mass is energy.

ciao

- viole

 

[shunyadragon]

I always lean toward prior conditions .. all the way down.

The expansion of a singularity (Black Hole) began the Universe, and then stars, galaxies, and planets formed by the Natural Laws and natural processes. Singularities from by collapsing stars and other matter over time. Gravity plays a role in the collapse of gas clouds that leads to the heating of the core and nuclear fusion and the stars light up if they are big enough. If not you get Stellar bodies like Jupiter.

Basically, everything happens by Natural Laws and processes, and there is no evidence for an absolute beginning or ending.

 

[Whateverist]

The expansion of a singularity (Black Hole) began the Universe, and then stars, galaxies, and planets formed by the Natural Laws and natural processes. Singularities from by collapsing stars and other matter over time. Gravity plays a role in the collapse of gas clouds that leads to the heating of the core and nuclear fusion and the stars light up if they are big enough. If not you get Stellar bodies like Jupiter.

Basically, everything happens by Natural Laws and processes, and there is no evidence for an absolute beginning or ending.

So is that agreement or disagreement? Is all the talk of black holes becoming a universe a possible prior cause for what we see today or not? Saying it is prior causes all the way down certainly doesn't imply there ever was a true beginning but it covers that possibility. I just don't care to speculate in more detail than I have grounds to. If your more specific account represents the consensus belief of people with credentials, maybe its true but I don't accept anything on authority.

 

[gnostic]

I'm assuming he's going back to the formation of the Sun, but not so far back as the origin of its components.

The energy was in the mass itself; the gas and dust that coalesced, through universal gravitation, to eventually formed a mass so dense and hot that the hydrogen began to fuse into helium, releasing tremendous energy and becoming a star.

Of course, valjean. You are right, I don’t have to go that far back.

I would guess my points in the original reply was to show the most abundant element in the universe, BACK THEN, and NOW, have always been hydrogen, the lightest of all atoms, and yet hydrogen are the main components - or the main building blocks - of every stars to existed, now and, since then.

In every gas or plasma clouds in space, the main raw materials are hydrogen, with other elements, such as helium, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen in various degrees of abundance. Such clouds are called molecular clouds or stellar nurseries, because the most abundant of materials, are molecular hydrogen (H2), hence it also referred to as H II region.

H II regions (stellar nurseries) are found in nebulae, where they would form new stars, when the clouds are dense enough to gravitational collapse, to form into star’s core, in a shape of sphere or ball. The clouds form the core and outer layers surrounding this core. So gravity play larger role in forming the shape and interiors of the new stars.

The denser the core, the hotter the core get, till it is hot enough to trigger nuclear fusion to form -

• helium from hydrogen fusion (proton-proton chain, example of type of nucleosynthesis is the sun)
• or with more massive stars to cycle through 3 heavier elements from hydrogen fusion (carbon-nitrogen-oxygen cycle, CNO cycle).

Both proton-proton chain & CNO cycle, are the 2 most common Stellar Nucleosynthesis types of hydrogen fusion. I have heard of 3rd hydrogen fusion, deuterium fusion, but I have read up on this type of nucleosynthesis, yet.

Generally, helium fusion or fusions of heavier elements (eg carbon burning, oxygen burning, etc) only occur if the core run out of hydrogen fuel, to fuse.

Anyway gravity (plus gravitational collapse) and heat played large roles in the energy (via Stellar Nucleosynthesis) produced by the stars (including the Sun), to get back to @chinu OP).

 

[shunyadragon]

So is that agreement or disagreement? Is all the talk of black holes becoming a universe a possible prior cause for what we see today or not? Saying it is prior causes all the way down certainly doesn't imply there ever was a true beginning but it covers that possibility. I just don't care to speculate in more detail than I have grounds to. If your more specific account represents the consensus belief of people with credentials, maybe its true but I don't accept anything on authority.

I believe in considering the knowledge of science as an 'authority.' The knowledge of science is the grounds to further understand our physical existence.

First, the singularity (Black Hole) is not a cause of the universe. It is the prior state of the universe before expansion to form a time-space universe. The cause is the Laws of Nature as we understand through the Laws, Theories, and Hypothesis as the knowledge of science. At the basic level and smallest scale we understand our physical existence as Quantum Mechanics The prevalent conclusion is that beyond the three-dimensional time-space universe, our existence is eternal and boundless, and possibly contains other universes, which I believe is likely.

Your original post did not word it as a possibility, but nonetheless, it will always be unknown if our physical existence containing our universe ultimately has a beginning or not.
This conjecture is not practical, the simple logic of what may be is that our physical existence is 'potentially infinite.'

Potential Infinite v. Actual Infinite | Aristotle

sites.middlebury.edu

The potential infinite is a group of numbers or group of “things” that continues without terminating, going on or repeating itself over and over again with no recognizable ending point.

No matter how far in space there will always be something beyond whatever.

 

[Whateverist]

Potential Infinite v. Actual Infinite | Aristotle
The potential infinite is a group of numbers or group of “things” that continues without terminating, going on or repeating itself over and over again with no recognizable ending point.

No matter how far in space there will always be something beyond whatever.

One of the most dishonest, cowardly Christian apologists I have ever come across online used to place great store in the impossibility of an "actual infinite'. He never made a convincing case for its impossibility nor did he ever succeed in connecting that conclusion to one of his threadbare standard Christian apologist believe-or-perish conclusions. Only one other Christian on the entire Christian website thought his arguments made any sense. But I take it you are not a Christian apologist so I wonder why you bring it up if you care to say. I have nothing against Christians or their faith but I am against dishonesty and the cowardice of those like this guy who never actually disclosed a position on any point or argument, even as he implored any and all to do so.

First, the singularity (Black Hole) is not a cause of the universe. It is the prior state of the universe before expansion to form a time-space universe.

Of course, but I do not agree that ..

The cause is the Laws of Nature as we understand through the Laws, Theories, and Hypothesis as the knowledge of science.

Science is definitely not about "laws" and even if we accept that word to describe the patterns it finds, there can be nothing proactive or determinative about these patterns. They are descriptive, not prescriptive. Nothing is ordering the universe from on high.

I think Quantum Field Theory makes a lot of sense and it leads to many challenging insights. Everything flows and we are in no position to say what is or isn't possible. The best minds may speculate what preceded our observable universe but, realistically, how authoritative could anyone's hunch on something so remote possibly be? And. the most heavily supported theories are in no better position to offer more than a hunch, but some at least have interesting ones to offer. Those who at the top of their field will tend to be most interesting but none of them have an authoritative case to make. Only amateurs do that.

 

[incites]

Kindly note: I am asking -- in the first place.
Form where sun got its energy in the first place ?

the sun is by far the most powerful thing u see as well as gravity but im saying thers 3 trillion galaxies with 200 billion solar systems (suns/stars) that are within each galaxy n the galaxies orbit a ultra supper massive black hole that weighs more than everything else in the universe as all 3 trillion galaxies orbit the humongous black hole n in each galaxy every solar system orbit a super massive black hole in center of each galaxy so im saying the amount of space is beyond the concept of time as u dont live long enough in time to travel further than the duration of ur life byt thats y i say theres more life than u can imagine outside ur reach i suspect as i believe that ET is more than known cuz people are simply crazy n cant be told the truth cuz it will just give them a reason to do what they want which is not good proper or safe as they cant be trusted

 

[incites]

One of the most dishonest, cowardly Christian apologists I have ever come across online used to place great store in the impossibility of an "actual infinite'. He never made a convincing case for its impossibility nor did he ever succeed in connecting that conclusion to one of his threadbare standard Christian apologist believe-or-perish conclusions. Only one other Christian on the entire Christian website thought his arguments made any sense. But I take it you are not a Christian apologist so I wonder why you bring it up if you care to say. I have nothing against Christians or their faith but I am against dishonesty and the cowardice of those like this guy who never actually disclosed a position on any point or argument, even as he implored any and all to do so.



Of course, but I do not agree that ..



Science is definitely not about "laws" and even if we accept that word to describe the patterns it finds, there can be nothing proactive or determinative about these patterns. They are descriptive, not prescriptive. Nothing is ordering the universe from on high.

I think Quantum Field Theory makes a lot of sense and it leads to many challenging insights. Everything flows and we are in no position to say what is or isn't possible. The best minds may speculate what preceded our observable universe but, realistically, how authoritative could anyone's hunch on something so remote possibly be? And. the most heavily supported theories are in no better position to offer more than a hunch, but some at least have interesting ones to offer. Those who at the top of their field will tend to be most interesting but none of them have an authoritative case to make. Only amateurs do that.

infinate is eternal i suppose but consider u live at most 90 years old then u want a life that doesnt end lol as it wad 90 years hard now u want more time than that as u cant handle eternity let alone indefinate which is long time but eternity to no long death but never find escape from n will not be able to endure so be mindful what u seek as ultimately u will be brought forward to the recompense of all that u did that u may know why as u urself invoked it up urselves in light of not trusting in the truth but follow a lie n reject the truth in rebellion with defiance yet regret in time will find u for what u do n what u did cuz its reason u are held account to urself as none will save u from ur moment the truth be told u n u not have not one word to speak against it that day as this day u can refute the truth cuz u not trust in it but since u dont know what u do or even why u do it so i cant judge one who doesnt know n i suspect nobody knows but just believes not knowing they cant believe what they know despite them thinking they can as u believe cuz u dont know n if u know then u dont need to rely on belief cuz it be knowledge that u know

 

[incites]

infinate is eternal i suppose but consider u live at most 90 years old then u want a life that doesnt end lol as it wad 90 years hard now u want more time than that as u cant handle eternity let alone indefinate which is long time but eternity to no long death but never find escape from n will not be able to endure so be mindful what u seek as ultimately u will be brought forward to the recompense of all that u did that u may know why as u urself invoked it up urselves in light of not trusting in the truth but follow a lie n reject the truth in rebellion with defiance yet regret in time will find u for what u do n what u did cuz its reason u are held account to urself as none will save u from ur moment the truth be told u n u not have not one word to speak against it that day as this day u can refute the truth cuz u not trust in it but since u dont know what u do or even why u do it so i cant judge one who doesnt know n i suspect nobody knows but just believes not knowing they cant believe what they know despite them thinking they can as u believe cuz u dont know n if u know then u dont need to rely on belief cuz it be knowledge that u know

science u will not find god in as i have moved him out ur reach by saying he is outside time n space so that way u can't make a idol from him cuz if u find god in nature or space then i will show u a idol....the day that u be told the truth n accept it will be the day that humans be informed of all that they feared n may they not find their lies to succeed but find the purpose of truth n the merit in it being used as i can promise u now that u most likly dont know despite thinking u do but i can guarantee u that just when u think u know u come to find u dont know n never did as its never ehat u thought it was as it never is amd since u dont know theres nothing u can do about what u dont know

 

[Whateverist]

infinate is eternal i suppose but consider u live at most 90 years old then u want a life that doesnt end lol as it wad 90 years hard now u want more time than that as u cant handle eternity let alone indefinate which is long time but eternity to no long death but never find escape from n will not be able to endure so be mindful what u seek as ultimately u will be brought forward to the recompense of all that u did that u may know why as u urself invoked it up urselves in light of not trusting in the truth but follow a lie n reject the truth in rebellion with defiance yet regret in time will find u for what u do n what u did cuz its reason u are held account to urself as none will save u from ur moment the truth be told u n u not have not one word to speak against it that day as this day u can refute the truth cuz u not trust in it but since u dont know what u do or even why u do it so i cant judge one who doesnt know n i suspect nobody knows but just believes not knowing they cant believe what they know despite them thinking they can as u believe cuz u dont know n if u know then u dont need to rely on belief cuz it be knowledge that u know

Sorry. I don’t read minds or speak gibberish.

 

[Whateverist]

infinate is eternal i suppose but consider u live at most 90 years old then u want a life that doesnt end lol as it wad 90 years hard now u want more time than that as u cant handle eternity let alone indefinate which is long time but eternity to no long death but never find escape from n will not be able to endure so be mindful what u seek as ultimately u will be brought forward to the recompense of all that u did that u may know why as u urself invoked it up urselves in light of not trusting in the truth but follow a lie n reject the truth in rebellion with defiance yet regret in time will find u for what u do n what u did cuz its reason u are held account to urself as none will save u from ur moment the truth be told u n u not have not one word to speak against it that day as this day u can refute the truth cuz u not trust in it but since u dont know what u do or even why u do it so i cant judge one who doesnt know n i suspect nobody knows but just believes not knowing they cant believe what they know despite them thinking they can as u believe cuz u dont know n if u know then u dont need to rely on belief cuz it be knowledge that u know

Sorry. I don’t read minds or speak gibberish.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

All matter, at the particle level, comes from energy.
The sun is no exception.
In the great scheme of things the sun is not even a first generation star. It did not even exit at the formation of the universe.
The entire solar system was formed from hydrogen and heavier elements Resulting from nuclear fusion in previous generations of stars

Even If God was responsible for the big bang and the original formation of the universe. There is no reason to suppose that he was responsible for the formation of our galaxy, sun or world. As these formed eons later.

 

[Viker]

'Although it may look empty, space is filled with gas and dust. Most of the material was hydrogen and helium, but some of it was made up of leftover remnants from the violent deaths of stars. About 4.5 billion years ago, waves of energy traveling through space pressed clouds of such particles closer together, and gravity caused them to collapse in on themselves and then start to spin, the first steps of how the solar system formed. The spin caused the cloud to flatten into a disk like a pancake. In the center, the material clumped together to form a protostar that would eventually become the sun.

"There is a rotationally supported disk around this protostar," astronomer John Tobin told Space.com about a similar early sun, adding it's a "key element" in building planets. "It lets the material hang out long enough for the planet formation process."

The young protostar was a ball of hydrogen and helium not yet powered by fusion. Over tens of millions of years, the temperature and pressure of the material inside increased, jumpstarting the fusion of hydrogen that drives the sun today.'

All credit to space.com