Some versions of the bible use the word fornication, while others use sexual immorality. Also, there's that list in Leviticus 18 of commandments on who you shouldn't sleep with, being relatives, animals, the same sex, and it doesn't say anything about premarital sex. Paul is clear about having sex before marriage, but I'm,not sure if Jesus ever really said anything about sex before marriage. I am wondering if sexual immorality includes fornication. Or could it mean just things like whoredom and promiscuity. It feels to me like there is morality in a committed unmarried relationship with the possibility of marriage as opposed to one night stands. Does God want me to save myself for marriage? I want to obey Him but I'm not sure if this is actually his commandment.
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Fornication or sexual immorality? Is fornication sexual immorality?
- Thread starter Holly
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exchemist
Veteran Member
I think the church has messed up sexual morality completely and a lot of that is due to St Paul. As you say, Christ said very little about sexual morality.
In earlier cultures there were practical reasons, to do with no effective contraception, why control of sex was important. A lot of the church's attitude dates from this era, now changed completely by widespread and effective contraception.
However I do think that the church is right to lay stress on committed relationships. I know from my own experience how intense sexual relationships often are and the hurt that is done, to at least one of the parties, if they are entered into carelessly.
I would not "save yourself" for marriage, unless you feel strongly that you want to do that. I think that having had at least some experience of sex beforehand can be useful, as it helps you demythologise it, get more relaxed about it, and become more proficient at it (there are elements of skill in reading the response of both bodies), which I think will get your married sex off to a better start. But equally, nobody should feel under pressure to do it just not to feel "left behind" or something.
Akivah
Well-Known Member
In the Hebrew Bible, the prohibition against premarital sex is deduced from the command to marry. Implicit in the command to marry is a prohibition of all nonmartial intercourse. As G-d wrote our laws and G-d knows His Creation the best, we can logically assume that G-d knows what is in our best interests. We can see from the news, that uncommitted sex causes all sorts of problems for both the participants and their unintended offspring.
The Paul(s) and its hard to contextualize sexuality. Hell gays were mentally ill till 1974' in.the dsm...
exchemist
Veteran Member
Skwim
Veteran Member
I don't see any such thing implicit at all in the command to marry. I can see the command to marry simply as means to insure the prorogation of mankind. IOW, it's fine to have premarital sex, but just remember your obligation to help populate the world too.
Only 29% of the Bibles use "fornicate" in 1 Corinthians 6:18.
And what's interesting about the list is that instead of simply saying "You must not have sexual relations with anyone but your wife," it goes into specifics of who not to have sex with, implying that there are others whom one may indeed have sex with. And one of those not mentioned would be people before one is married.
What does he say, and where?
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Paul says this :
1 Cor. 7:8-9 “To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to stay single as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
But... Maybe by unmarried, he is talking about people who are divorced?
I'm going to assume the question is genuine and not humorous...
Jesus spoke Aramaic, a Semitic language related to Hebrew, Arabic, Ancient Egyptian and many others in the region. English as we know it didn't exist 2,000 years ago. It was still in the Proto-Germanic stage of development, being spoken in small areas of northern Europe.
Thanks.
Akivah
Well-Known Member
Obviously. You're not learned in the Hebrew bible.
Through single moms and abandoned children? Are you saying having kids outside of a committed marriage is the preferred way to go?
Well I don't really believe in those other Gods. I believe Christ is God, name above all names.
Why?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Yeah, he seems to be saying that having sex with anyone outside of marriage isn't a good idea at all. That it's simply better that such a person marry if they want sex. And, this doesn't come near the condemnation that god has in his list of no-nos in Leviticus 18. Here Paul seems to be simply offering up his opinion.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
At least not in a biased way.
Absolutely! The more single parent and abandoned children in the world, the better off we'd all be.
"Please sir, can I have some more"
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Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
I wrote a book on the topic last year, if anyone is interested in a PDF version PM your email and Ill sent it to you.
Just a hint Religion has shamed peoples sexuality and monogamy isn't part of our DNA
Just a hint Religion has shamed peoples sexuality and monogamy isn't part of our DNA
If you feel premarital sex is insurmountably wrong for whatever reason, then stick to your guns and don't do it. Do not allow others to talk you into doing something that isn't "you".
Otherwise, experience repeatedly shows that it is wise to make sure you are sexually compatible with your intended partner before you commit to marriage with them. Healthy physical intimacy, while not necessary to a minority of people, is essential to most marriages.
Otherwise, experience repeatedly shows that it is wise to make sure you are sexually compatible with your intended partner before you commit to marriage with them. Healthy physical intimacy, while not necessary to a minority of people, is essential to most marriages.
I'm interested but I'll have to consider my reading list first.
I broadly agree with you there. From what little I know of the evidence -- mainly human physiology, such as testicular size, shape of penis, etc -- a strong case could be made that we did not evolve to be purely monogamous. We are certainly less monogamous than some other close relatives: Gorillas and gibbons, for instance. I think the question on precisely what we did evolve to be is still out, however.
There's a risk, however, of falling into the naturalistic fallacy.