fred phelps

[ametist]

I didnt know anything about him.since his death turned the place into a kindergarden in terms of reactions I am prompted to look. I read that he lost mom at age five. I think death equals us all. I wish all the patience to those that will miss him and I hope he can now spend some time with his mother like every kid deserves.

 

[Amechania]

So, using the same logic, you also would admire Hitler in the same way?

The difference is that Hitler murdered millions of people, mostly because people stood by and let it happen. I admire some aspects of Hitler's life, but his legacy is so tragic and destructive for so many that he has become the image of evil incarnate, and rightly so. Many people believed in Hitler, but accomplished so much evil because so many looked the other way. I do not advocate following the legacy of Fred Phelps or ignoring the danger he posed, but the fact that he existed makes us all more aware of freedom of speech and religion. He stood for something. It may have been wrong, but in standing up and spouting hate he ought to make us stand up and defend the truth.

 

[Father Heathen]

I hope Fred Phelps repents and seeks God's forgiveness before he dies.

Already dead.

 

[LuisDantas]

The difference is that Hitler murdered millions of people, mostly because people stood by and let it happen. I admire some aspects of Hitler's life, but his legacy is so tragic and destructive for so many that he has become the image of evil incarnate, and rightly so. Many people believed in Hitler, but accomplished so much evil because so many looked the other way. I do not advocate following the legacy of Fred Phelps or ignoring the danger he posed, but the fact that he existed makes us all more aware of freedom of speech and religion. He stood for something. It may have been wrong, but in standing up and spouting hate he ought to make us stand up and defend the truth.

Standing for something does not look very respectable going by that, you know.

 

[Amechania]

Standing for something does not look very respectable going by that, you know.

Respectability is entirely dependent on circumstance and public opinion. I don't happen to agree with Malcolm X, not necessarily because of what he wanted to achieve, but because of his methods. Are you saying because both Phelps' message and methods are disagreeable he should be equated with Hitler, the murderer?

 

[LuisDantas]

That too, as a matter of fact.

But I what I said previously is that there is nothing to respect far as I can tell in Phelps standing up for what should be stood down.

A courageous fool is still a fool. A courageous destructive fool is still a destructive fool.

If anything, the lack of courage to question his actions and their consequences brings doubt to his courage, even.

 

[Amechania]

That too, as a matter of fact.

But I what I said previously is that there is nothing to respect far as I can tell in Phelps standing up for what should be stood down.

A courageous fool is still a fool. A courageous destructive fool is still a destructive fool.

If anything, the lack of courage to question his actions and their consequences brings doubt to his courage, even.

That I can agree with. I don't think Phelps was heroic, only that he was not without value. An open wound is more likely to be treated than one that cannot be seen.

 

[Jainarayan]

A courageous fool is still a fool. A courageous destructive fool is still a destructive fool.

In the long run and grand scheme was he or Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, bin Laden, or any others all that destructive? Before I get jumped all over as has happened in the past when I seemed to have given Hitler a free pass, the point is the George Santayana quote: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." If we remember these things, learn from them and change so they don't happen again, then the "destruction" was not in vain. Things happen for a reason. There are no accidents, including Fred Phelps.

 

[LuisDantas]

That I can agree with. I don't think Phelps was heroic, only that he was not without value. An open wound is more likely to be treated than one that cannot be seen.

I wish I could say I follow you... but I do not.

In the long run and grand scheme was he or Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, bin Laden, or any others all that destructive?

Yes, very much so. They had good company, but that only heightens the level of their responsibility and the gravity of their failed leadership.

Before I get jumped all over as has happened in the past when I seemed to have given Hitler a free pass, the point is the George Santayana quote: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." If we remember these things, learn from them and change so they don't happen again, then the "destruction" was not in vain. Things happen for a reason. There are no accidents, including Fred Phelps.

That sounds a bit like saying that being mugged isn't so bad it if teaches to be conscious of one's safety, don't you think?

 

[Jainarayan]

An open wound is more likely to be treated than one that cannot be seen.

I wish I could say I follow you... but I do not.

Fred Phelps and the WBC are an open wound, a tumor that can be seen and responded to proactively. How proactive was the US in stopping the 9/11 attacks? Not very, because the enemy was hidden. We're a lot better at rooting out these tumors now.

 

[Jainarayan]

Yes, very much so. They had good company, but that only heightens the level of their responsibility and the gravity of their failed leadership.

Of course. There's no doubt of the heinousness of their crimes and the depths to which they sunk.

That sounds a bit like saying that being mugged isn't so bad it if teaches to be conscious of one's safety, don't you think?

It's not that it's not bad. I'm not saying now or ever that any of these things are good. But that one mugging may save 10 others from the same fate. If they learn the lesson.

 

[adi2d]

He protested in front of fathers mothers siblings and other family of fallen soldiers. Yelling and making fuss while everyone was grieving. Telling family that their boy was in hell

Maybe God will forgive him. I never will

 

[Twilight Hue]

Fred did champion tirelessly for racial equality and represented black folks in a day no lawyer would willingly take such a case. He was a passionate man and had done a lot of good. For that reason he will be missed.

However his passing also demonstrates just how well, once again, religious radicalism and fanaticism can, be horribly destructive and harmful in many facets by warping the vision of generally "good" people through mindless indoctrination.

Best thing now, is hopefully, a sizable portion of Freds family will breathe a collective sigh of relief and make Westboro a respectable domain of worship for the Phelps family and affiliated, now able to make good decisions and closing a chapter best forgotten.

Im guessing the ball is in Shirley's court assuming she is taking the reigns of Westboro.

 

[nazz]

That was real class and compassion! :yes:

Yes, that is George for you. I agree with his sentiment.

 

[4consideration]

That was real class and compassion! :yes:

I agree.

I was pleased to see this article today about some people countering the messages of condemnation and hatred with messages of love and compassion. http://news.yahoo.com/westboro-counter-protest-lorde-143155151.html

edit: I particularly liked the last paragraph.

"Rather than picket Fred Phelps’ funeral," Mark Silk wrote on ReligionNews.com, "we should give thanks for his gift to American society. ... He made religious hostility to homosexuality repulsive."