Free Speech in the U.S. and Gaza/Israel

[Orbit]

The U.S. 1st amendment is a cornerstone of U.S. democracy. It guarantees freedom of speech, and is held dear by Americans. However, the first amendment only says that the *government* cannot repress or punish free speech. There is no mention of businesses, corporations, and the like, who are free to suppress or punish speech as they see fit.

The one exception to that is the tradition (codified in university/AAUP policy, but not law) of academic freedom, which protects faculty from being fired due to political speech on campus. There are cases in law that protect the political speech of students. Tinker v. Des Moines is a historic Supreme Court ruling from 1969 that cemented students' rights to free speech in public schools. In Healy v. James (1972), the Court made it clear that free speech rights recognized in Tinker applied to public university campuses with even greater force.

I am very concerned by the current anti-free speech trend wherein anyone who criticizes Israel is vilified, fired, or doxxed; and where campuses are limiting or prohibiting student and faculty speech and censuring or disbanding student organizations that are critical of Israeli policies or actions. No one seems to mind speech or organizations that are critical of Palestine. It has produced a witch-hunt type atmosphere. Donors to universities have tried to leverage (or pull) their donations to universities because the universities have allowed student free speech that they don't like. I think that's despicable, but it's their money.

In looking at several cases of this, I ran across the article below, showing Israel's complicity in this. Frankly, with respect to U.S. universities, Israel behaves like a bully, coercing them into making faculty sign statements that they won't support boycotts against Israel at some campuses. If you are invited to speak at some universities in some states, you have to sign the "anti-BDS pledge" or you don't get paid for your time. The bully's leverage is the accusation of "anti-semitism", which they apply to any criticism of Israel's actions as a nation-state.

Israel’s War on American Student Activists

For years the Israel on Campus Coalition—a little-known organization with links to Israeli intelligence—has used student informants to spy on pro-Palestinian campus groups.

www.thenation.com

Lest a volley of more endless whataboutism occur, let me preface this by saying that I know there have been tragic instances of anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim hate speech, attacks, and even murder in the U.S. in the wake of Oct 7th.

Does that justify abandoning our most cherished principle of free speech?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Lest a volley of more endless whataboutism occur, let me preface this by saying that I know there have been tragic instances of anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim hate speech, attacks, and even murder in the U.S. in the wake of Oct 7th.

Does that justify abandoning our most cherished principle of free speech?

No, nor does it explain your persistent focus.

 

[Orbit]

No, nor does it explain your persistent focus.

I'm glad you think that it doesn't justify abandoning free speech.

My "persistent focus"? Where have I posted about free speech in relation to this before?

The free speech issue is important to me in particular because I work in a university.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, nor does it explain your persistent focus.

That is a disgusting personal attack.
Must she explain her focus upon....
- Favoring free speech.
- Favoring the human rights of Palestinians.
- Opposing Israel's oppression & war crimes.
- Israel interfering in US society.

 

[Left Coast]

The U.S. 1st amendment is a cornerstone of U.S. democracy. It guarantees freedom of speech, and is held dear by Americans. However, the first amendment only says that the *government* cannot repress or punish free speech. There is no mention of businesses, corporations, and the like, who are free to suppress or punish speech as they see fit.

The one exception to that is the tradition (codified in university/AAUP policy, but not law) of academic freedom, which protects faculty from being fired due to political speech on campus. There are cases in law that protect the political speech of students. Tinker v. Des Moines is a historic Supreme Court ruling from 1969 that cemented students' rights to free speech in public schools. In Healy v. James (1972), the Court made it clear that free speech rights recognized in Tinker applied to public university campuses with even greater force.

I am very concerned by the current anti-free speech trend wherein anyone who criticizes Israel is vilified, fired, or doxxed; and where campuses are limiting or prohibiting student and faculty speech and censuring or disbanding student organizations that are critical of Israeli policies or actions. No one seems to mind speech or organizations that are critical of Palestine. It has produced a witch-hunt type atmosphere. Donors to universities have tried to leverage (or pull) their donations to universities because the universities have allowed student free speech that they don't like. I think that's despicable, but it's their money.

In looking at several cases of this, I ran across the article below, showing Israel's complicity in this. Frankly, with respect to U.S. universities, Israel behaves like a bully, coercing them into making faculty sign statements that they won't support boycotts against Israel at some campuses. If you are invited to speak at some universities in some states, you have to sign the "anti-BDS pledge" or you don't get paid for your time. The bully's leverage is the accusation of "anti-semitism", which they apply to any criticism of Israel's actions as a nation-state.

Israel’s War on American Student Activists

For years the Israel on Campus Coalition—a little-known organization with links to Israeli intelligence—has used student informants to spy on pro-Palestinian campus groups.

www.thenation.com

Lest a volley of more endless whataboutism occur, let me preface this by saying that I know there have been tragic instances of anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim hate speech, attacks, and even murder in the U.S. in the wake of Oct 7th.

Does that justify abandoning our most cherished principle of free speech?

If anything, the trend in US universities right now is to be highly critical of Israel, highly sympathetic to Palestine and even to Hamas, up to and including professors and students justifying Hamas' attack on October 7th. A disturbing number of students now seem to consider it a mainstream, reasonable view to believe that Israel shouldn't exist, period. Overt antisemitism on college campuses has massively increased. Anti-Israel demonstrations on campuses are much more common than pro-Israel ones. The notion that people on US college campuses aren't allowed to criticize Israel right now is just silly.

USC professor barred from campus is teaching remotely following dispute with pro-Palestinian protestors

John Strauss, a tenured economics professor at USC, claims his comments to pro-Palestinian protesters were misconstrued.

forward.com

Pro-Palestine student interrupts math lecture at MIT, professor asks ‘can I just finish this line?’

A student interrupted a math lecture at MIT to give a ‘free Palestine’ speech

www.hindustantimes.com

I could Google more examples but this is a sample.

 

[Revoltingest]

If anything, the trend in US universities right now is to be highly critical of Israel....

But Palestinians don't have a quasi-governmental
bunch of thugs systematically trying to censor
all criticism of Israel, & advocacy for Palestinians.
Try as Israel does, its veneer of progressive values
is being shown hollow. This is the reason that so
many are now speaking out against it.

 

[Left Coast]

But Palestinians don't have a quasi-governmental
bunch of thugs systematically trying to censor
all criticism of Israel, & advocacy for Palestinians.

Neither do we.

 

[Revoltingest]

Neither do we.

We?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The free speech issue is important to me in particular because I work in a university.

And what I see as antisemitic screeds are important to me in part because I'm Jewish.

 

[Left Coast]

We?

The US. That's the topic of the thread, I thought.

 

[Revoltingest]

The US. That's the topic of the thread, I thought.

There are many groups.
When in doubt, ask.

 

[Left Coast]

There are many groups.
When in doubt, ask.

Whoever they are, they're doing a terrible job. Criticism of Israel is ubiquitous.

When in doubt, look at the news.

 

[Revoltingest]

And what I see as antisemitic screeds are important to me in part because I'm Jewish.

Your ilk loves to call critics of Israel "anti-semite".
But that's lazy, specious, deflecting, ad hominem,
tiresome, bigoted, counter-productive, &....
worthy of <yawn> <ignore> <yawn>.

 

[Revoltingest]

Whoever they are, they're doing a terrible job.

Aye, "terrible" is the appropriate adjective,
but for the hideous intent behind Israel's
covert censorship campaign, ie, to ruin
lives to coerce silence about Israel's
war crimes & oppression.

Criticism of Israel is ubiquitous.

Because it is so well deserved.

 

[Left Coast]

Aye, "terrible" is the appropriate adjective,
but for the hideous intent behind Israel's
covert censorship campaign

Oh please.

, ie, to ruin
lives to coerce silence about Israel's
war crimes & oppression.

There is no silence being coerced. Much like the people without a conscience you mentioned challenging yesterday, you're batttling boogeymen in your head. Try addressing the real humans before you and their real thoughts and feelings instead of your caricatures.

 

[Left Coast]

Your ilk loves to call critics of Israel "anti-semite".

Not a great look for you to talk about a Jewish guy's "ilk" while pretending antisemitism isn't occurring en masse right now.

But that's lazy, specious, deflecting, ad hominem,
tiresome, bigoted, counter-productive, &....
worthy of <yawn> <ignore> <yawn>.

Don't project.

 

[Orbit]

If anything, the trend in US universities right now is to be highly critical of Israel, highly sympathetic to Palestine and even to Hamas, up to and including professors and students justifying Hamas' attack on October 7th. A disturbing number of students now seem to consider it a mainstream, reasonable view to believe that Israel shouldn't exist, period. Overt antisemitism on college campuses has massively increased. Anti-Israel demonstrations on campuses are much more common than pro-Israel ones. The notion that people on US college campuses aren't allowed to criticize Israel right now is just silly.

USC professor barred from campus is teaching remotely following dispute with pro-Palestinian protestors

John Strauss, a tenured economics professor at USC, claims his comments to pro-Palestinian protesters were misconstrued.

forward.com

Pro-Palestine student interrupts math lecture at MIT, professor asks ‘can I just finish this line?’

A student interrupted a math lecture at MIT to give a ‘free Palestine’ speech

www.hindustantimes.com

I could Google more examples but this is a sample.

The thing is, I could Google just as many examples that show the repression of free speech in universities.

I could also Google just as many examples of rampant anti-Muslim hate attacks, speech, and even murder.

There are pro-Israel marches and pro-Palestinian marches (but the only ones people in power complain about are the pro-Palestinian marches).

There are pro-Israel student organizations and pro-Palestinian student organizations (but the only ones who get censured by universities are the pro-Palestinian organizations, case in point is Jewish Voice for Peace).

It would again become endless whataboutism.

Rather than tally up the "speech offenses" by students and faculty on both sides, what concerns me are the practices of the people in power. University administrations are punishing students and faculty for speech they don't like, and that's not right. I may not agree with all student speech, but I wouldn't call to silence it. Merely holding an unpopular opinion does not rise to the level of hate speech. The Israeli government has also contacted universities who publish books they don't like, have faculty they don't like, and who host presentations that they don't like in an effort to cancel those involved.

You say criticism of Israel is ubiquitous. It is certainly highly visible right now, but that doesn't mean that it's not being punished.

"Palestine Legal has received 600 requests for legal assistance since Oct. 7, according to Assi, and the group has written a letter to the Department of Education detailing incidents of Muslim and pro-Palestine students getting attacked on campuses. The department released a letter reminding schools of the duty to protect Palestinian students".

I think the prevailing attitude that anyone who criticizes Israeli policy is anti-semitic is the worst sort of McCarthyism.

And I think that the fact that groups who have ties to Israeli intelligence are operating on U.S. campuses specifically to disrupt Palestinian student groups should be considered a form of espionage.

Free speech can be messy, but I think it needs to be preserved despite the mess. And Israel needs to stay off U.S. campuses. One way they attempt to control U.S. academics is in the form of the anti-BDS laws that they lobby for, calling anyone who objects an anti-semite. If I want to boycott Israel because of its human rights record, that my business. I shouldn't have to sign what amounts to a coerced "loyalty pledge" to Israel in order to be paid for a speaking engagement at an American university.

"As of 2021, 35 states have passed bills and executive orders designed to discourage boycotts of Israel.[4] Many of them have been passed with broad bipartisan support.[5] Most anti-BDS laws have taken one of two forms: contract-focused laws requiring government contractors to promise that they are not boycotting Israel; and investment-focused laws, mandating public investment funds to avoid entities boycotting Israel.[6] There has been debate over whether the laws violate the right to free speech and organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Council on American–Islamic Relations (CAIR) have challenged many of them in court cases.[7]"

From: Anti-BDS laws - Wikipedia

 

[Orbit]

And what I see as antisemitic screeds are important to me in part because I'm Jewish.

Facts that you don't like are anti-semitic? That's certainly convenient for you. It lets you dismiss any criticism of Israeli policy, no matter what.

I think that the fact that groups who have ties to Israeli intelligence that are operating on U.S. campuses specifically to disrupt Palestinian student groups should be considered a form of espionage. Is that anti-Semitic, too?

 

[Left Coast]

The thing is, I could Google just as many examples that show the repression of free speech in universities.

No, I'm sorry but you couldn't. Students freely express their opinions about Israel literally. every. single. day. Examples you could produce of students being told they cannot express any negative opinions about that are dwarfed by students saying exactly what they think. You ought to know this.

There are pro-Israel marches and pro-Palestinian marches (but the only ones people in power complain about are the pro-Palestinian marches).

Again, there are vastly more pro-Palestine marches happening on college campuses (and just in general) in this country. It has been constant for a month. Again, you ought to know this. There was just a large pro-Palestine march through the middle of the downtown that blocked traffic where I live, two days ago. Pretending the two sides are equally prevalent is not an accurate representation.

Rather than tally up the "speech offenses" by students and faculty on both sides, what concerns me are the practices of the people in power. University administrations are punishing students and faculty for speech they don't like, and that's not right. I may not agree with all student speech, but I wouldn't call to silence it. Merely holding an unpopular opinion does not rise to the level of hate speech. The Israeli government has also contacted universities who publish books they don't like, have faculty they don't like, and who host presentations that they don't like in an effort to cancel those involved.

Firstly, I don't see a lot of campuses simply repressing any old opinions they don't like. I see particular, extreme expressions that advocate overt violence, genocide, and racism being punished. I don't see any widespread practice of student speech being silenced right now at all. Students are speaking very loudly and clearly all over this country. They're on camera. They're shouting into megaphones.

As for what the Israeli government has done, I'd be interested to know the details. If Israel has given money to those universities, I can easily see them threatening to pull future financial contributions, for example, if the university doesn't denounce the widespread antisemitism happening on campuses right now. That's their prerogative. You've said here that you don't want your money going to support Israel in its war effort. If you had the power, I'm betting you'd exert some real pressure to withhold that money if you could and demand some sort of concessions or changes. Why would Israel be held to another standard?

I think the prevailing attitude that anyone who criticizes Israeli policy is anti-semitic is the worst sort of McCarthyism.

No. The attitude that Israel shouldn't exist is antisemitic. The attitude that Hamas' terrorist attack was justified "resistance to oppression" is antisemitic. That's what people are calling antisemitic. Among other overtly antisemitic things, like Elon Musk recently endorsing the idea that there's some Jewish cabal to defame white people.

Free speech can be messy, but I think it needs to be preserved despite the mess. And Israel needs to stay off U.S. campuses. One way they attempt to control U.S. academics is in the form of the anti-BDS laws that they lobby for, calling anyone who objects an anti-semite. If I want to boycott Israel because of its human rights record, that my business. I shouldn't have to sign what amounts to a coerced "loyalty pledge" to Israel in order to be paid for a speaking engagement at an American university.

I'm reminded here of the complaints of some right-wingers that have been disinvited from speaking at college campuses because of their views. Or whose talks have been completely disrupted or cancelled due to protestors. The usual reply on the left is that free speech doesn't entitle you to a microphone and a podium. Are you opposed to those speakers not being allowed to be paid for speaking engagements at American universities? If not, why is this different?

Personally, I think we should have laws and policies that are as permissive as feasibly possible around speech. Students should be exposed to a full spectrum of ideological views so they can form their own opinions.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is no silence being coerced.

Does this mean you deny the OP's linked article?

Much like the people without a conscience you mentioned challenging yesterday, you're batttling boogeymen in your head. Try addressing the real humans before you and their real thoughts and feelings instead of your caricatures.

Bless your heart.