Free Speech Under Attack From Liberals

[Wirey]

Free speech on the run, even in the home of the brave - World - CBC News

It appears that even the US will eventually wind up with some Eurocentric hate law legislation. Can this possibly exist within the parameters laid out for free speech in the Constitution?

 

[Mycroft]

It's true, in some cases, that liberals damage free speech.

I was actually banned from Unite Against Fascism's Facebook page. They wanted to prevent a French Nationalist from delivering a lecture at Oxford University by petition and demonstration. I pointed out that this was against the spirit of free-speech, and that the idiom 'the only good fascist is a dead fascist' was itself fascism.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is not new, of course.

I recall how Bill Clinton threatened to prosecute citizens who spoke out publicly against group homes in their neighborhood. ("Group homes" are supervised dwellings for people with certain legal or developmental difficulties.) He essentially wanted to apply speech restrictions of real estate licensees to citizens in general. Fortunately, the courts b**** slapped him.

Even now, if a group of people assemble to advocate for something, they'd better be careful, & hire a lawyer to ensure they don't run afoul of campaign finance laws, which are unexpectedly complex & detailed.
Freedom of Speech, Except When It Matters | Cato Institute

Freedom of speech has always been under attack from both the right & the left....any time one of them thinks they can squelch the opposition or make the country a better place by shutting up us loudmouths.

 

[jeager106]

Liberals against free speech.
That's funny.
On Direct T-V I have a channel called "Free Speech T-V".
I bumped into by accident one day and watched part of it.
Hilarious it is. They have a show on Free Speech called
"Gay America" which is even more hilarious.
Guest speakers are often woman and people of color who have
just gotten out of prison for felony convictions, are on parole and spend their
15 minutes of fame complaining about the criminal justice system, blame
lost years of opportunity for being born a woman or a brown person.
It's nothing more than a huge whining blame it on the government show.

 

[Laika]

The truth is, is that if you want to instill political correctness indoctorination is a far more effective and less coercive method of achieving it than hate speech laws. You don't need legal restrictions to get people to conform; the fear of being ostricised by one's peers is much more effective than fear of prison. We are not legally compelled to measure our self worth by what we own, but because we see it on the Television as a society we have the level of consumer debt to prove indoctorination works. Free Speech has been perverted into the freedom to indoctorinate and manipulate public opinion through the mass media- irrespective of who owns it. Our society is more deeply conformist than our predecessors; we read the same headlines, what the same television shows and youtube videos, and still believe that because we chose to conform we are individuals. Technology means that the spontaneous processes of socialisation have been captured and can now be used to commercial and political ends, and that those in authority can and do decide what we think to a degree that would have been unthinkable only two centuries ago.

Speaking as someone who enjoys their free speech and stretching the limits of free thought ( ), I'm certian I would fall fowl of restrictions on free speech for holding extremist views. it is one of the things I am greatful for and constantly remind myself of in thinking about what it would be like to live in any of the countries that follow communist ideals that I live in a country where I am not criminalised for holding those opinions. yet I'm not sure whether we are really asking the right question by saying that the limited liberal state is the enemy of free speech when we think and feel the way we are told by the mass media and popular culture. the tools exist, so how long is it before they are used to make us fit an idealised self-image when we are daily assulted by emotional manipulation to be what we consume? Is the (politically) liberal position regarding freedom of speech really tenable in the long-run?

 

[nilsz]

I think it is generally unreasonable to expect the political process to have the maturity to regulate freedom of speech, which is a major reason why the law should be relatively permissible. Within private venues however, like this web forum, I think it should be acceptable to enforce stricter norms, permitting a subset of what is permitted by law. Within venues, one encounters the complexity that if one permits some behaviour, one is effectively excluding the participation of other people. At times it seems people are surprised to learn that some minorities, whose voices have not previously been as prominent, have different preferences regarding norms.

 

[dust1n]

I really never understand where this stuff comes from. Most liberals I know are so far from politically active, to think of them actually attacking anything is absurd.

"Most of these freelance censors seem to be politically left of centre, and range from the "social justice warriors" to — and I'm ashamed to say this — many in the mainstream media, which once celebrated the right to offend established norms and ideas.

There are bags of examples in a new book by Kirsten Powers, the columnist and longtime Democratic Party operative, titled The Silencing: How the Left is Killing Free Speech.

Powers argues that left-of-centre activists (she calls them the "illiberal left") are leading a "forced march towards conformity," striving to control and punish anyone who disagrees with the groupthink in which they wallow with such certainty.

The academic and writer Fredrik DeBoer has called it the "We Are All Already Decided" phenomenon."

It's pretty hilarious to me to think of the people around town who concern themselves mostly with the food they eat, the traffic, drinking a lot, generally underpaid and in student debt, many with unintended kids, smoke pot, and watch obscure videos people find at thrift stores and compile them together, are also somehow subverting the political system to purposefully make it legally official than someone's anti-gay rhetoric is Fascist. Perhaps my experiences speak little...

You don't need legal restrictions to get people to conform; the fear of being ostricised by one's peers is much more effective than fear of prison.

This is generally the mechanism I see at work when I see people behave, speak and interact.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually, throughout the 20th century and into the 21st free-speech has always had its limits. This is nothing new.
And it's a far cry to label all liberals as the "SJW" stereotype. And, yes, we do need some more restrictions on freedom of speech, such as restricting the WBC and being concerned about the rights of those attending a funeral.

 

[MD]

Liberals are extremely anti free speech when the speech conflicts with their own values. They are no different from the people they hate.

 

[dust1n]

Liberals are extremely anti free speech when the speech conflicts with their own values. They are no different from the people they hate.

In what sense?

 

[MD]

In what sense?

You question or challenge anything they believe and you are labelled as a sexist, racist, or whatever. Even when the liberal ideology itself is highly flawed and unrealistic.

Liberalism is highly influenced by cultural Marxism. It seeks to destroy the church, the family, the community and the individual and mold everyone into depending fully on the state.

 

[dust1n]

You question or challenge anything they believe and you are labelled as a sexist, racist, or whatever. Even when the liberal ideology itself is highly flawed and unrealistic.

Liberalism is highly influenced by cultural Marxism. It seeks to destroy the church, the family, the community and the individual and mold everyone into depending fully on the state.

Oh, so labeling someone as sexist or racist is not okay under free speech also? What, are you some sort PC police tell me who I can and cannot call sexist and racist?

And what are you talking about? Is not going to church because it's a waste of time the equivalent to destroying the church? Am I destroying Wal Mart by not spending my money there too? By choosing not to have a family, am I somehow effecting you and your family, by paying more taxes as an individual to help send all those massive families of farm kids to school? How exactly does one destroy the community and the individual at the same time? I suppose you believe liberalism is also trying to destroy the solar system as well?

 

[MD]

Oh, so labeling someone as sexist or racist is not okay under free speech also? What, are you some sort PC police tell me who I can and cannot call sexist and racist?

And what are you talking about? Is not going to church because it's a waste of time the equivalent to destroying the church? Am I destroying Wal Mart by not spending my money there too? By choosing not to have a family, am I somehow effecting you and your family, by paying more taxes as an individual to help send all those massive families of farm kids to school? How exactly does one destroy the community and the individual at the same time? I suppose you believe liberalism is also trying to destroy the solar system as well?

Actually the liberals are the PC police.

If you don't see how the liberal movement has helped destroy many good things in society then there's no point arguing with you. The destruction of religion is a huge part of the liberal movement. The destruction of fidelity, family, structure and discipline is a huge part of the liberal movement. Morality is relative, there's no such thing as right and wrong. Just do what feels right or more like what liberals label as right. Then there's massive handouts, which destroy peoples will to work, to innovate and grow. You destroy the community by destroying the structures which build communities, like hard word and family and tradition. You destroy the individual by not allowing any true free thinking. And you create a new world based on your own liberal bias.

You are the typical liberal, who cannot accept that his own view is flawed.

 

[dust1n]

Actually the liberals are the PC police.

If you don't see how the liberal movement has helped destroy many good things in society then there's no point arguing with you. The destruction of religion is a huge part of the liberal movement. The destruction of fidelity, family, structure and discipline is a huge part of the liberal movement. Morality is relative, there's no such thing as right and wrong. Just do what feels right or more like what liberals label as right. Then there's massive handouts, which destroy peoples will to work, to innovate and grow. You destroy the community by destroying the structures which build communities, like hard word and family and tradition. You destroy the individual by not allowing any true free thinking. And you create a new world based on your own liberal bias.

You are the typical liberal, who cannot accept that his own view is flawed.

Oh man, the irony. You really should work on your rhetoric.

If you don't see how the conservative movement has helped destroy many goods in society then there's no point arguing with you. The endorsement of religious ideals over all individuals is a huge part of the conservative movement. The forced application of fidelity, family, structure and discipline is a huge part of the conservative movement. Morality is absolute, right and wrong have already been determined. Don't do anything that feels right or more like what you, as an individual label as right. Then there's the massive economic disenfranchisement, which destroy peoples' will to work, to innovate and grow. You destroy the community by destroying the structures which build the communities, like their income and ability to go to college and access healthcare, and also destroy families and traditions with bouts of senseless wars at the expense of the individual taxpayer, then support complete lack of transparency in the political process. You destroy the individual by not allowing any true free thinking. And you seek to keep the world in an old mode, based on economic hierarchies that benefit a tiny part of the population at the expense of millions.


Seem hyperbolic and unconvincing?

 

[dust1n]

Hold on, I just wanted to check with the conservatives here, the GOP, and the Christian Sharia if I may refer to these gentlemen as "racists," as applicable in law 9257, section 17, subsection 17.47(a);

"LINDEN, Texas — This wisp of a town in the piney woods of East Texas is the birthplace of music greats T-Bone Walker and Scott Joplin — a bit of historical fortune that local officials hope one day will draw music-loving tourists here.
Today, however, Linden is wrestling with another identity: as the home of four white men involved in attacking a mentally disabled black man in 2003 and dumping him, unconscious and bleeding, along a country road in the middle of the night.

Billy Ray Johnson, now 46, has not recovered from a blow to his skull and will need nursing home care the rest of his life. The men involved were convicted of minor criminal charges; the longest sentence imposed was 60 days in jail."

A jury's stand against racism reflects hope - USATODAY.com

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You question or challenge anything they believe and you are labelled as a sexist, racist, or whatever. Even when the liberal ideology itself is highly flawed and unrealistic.

Liberalism is highly influenced by cultural Marxism. It seeks to destroy the church, the family, the community and the individual and mold everyone into depending fully on the state.

How does Marxism want to destroy the family? Or, is the goal of Marxism to balance the power between men and women in a family too much for your notion of "family?" How do we seek to destroy the community when we want to disrupt the severe imbalance of power held by the state and capitalist by giving more of it to the community? The root word of communism is community, after all. Marxist is as far left as anarchy because the fruition of Marxism is a society that has no state. And if you want to see a social/political philosophy that destroys the individual, look at communitarianism or totalitarian states like N. Korea.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you are that wrong about Marxism, why should we assume you know anything accurate about Liberalism?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hold on, I just wanted to check with the conservatives here, the GOP, and the Christian Sharia if I may refer to these gentlemen as "racists," as applicable in law 9257, section 17, subsection 17.47(a);

"LINDEN, Texas — This wisp of a town in the piney woods of East Texas is the birthplace of music greats T-Bone Walker and Scott Joplin — a bit of historical fortune that local officials hope one day will draw music-loving tourists here.
Today, however, Linden is wrestling with another identity: as the home of four white men involved in attacking a mentally disabled black man in 2003 and dumping him, unconscious and bleeding, along a country road in the middle of the night.

Billy Ray Johnson, now 46, has not recovered from a blow to his skull and will need nursing home care the rest of his life. The men involved were convicted of minor criminal charges; the longest sentence imposed was 60 days in jail."

A jury's stand against racism reflects hope - USATODAY.com

Oh, but that's just there, and it doesn't happen any where else, and discrimination just isn't a problem in other places. :rollseyes:

 

[dust1n]

Oh, but that's just there, and it doesn't happen any where else, and discrimination just isn't a problem in other places. :rollseyes:

We got to be careful though, we don't want to inhibit their free speech by thinking of them as racists.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hold on, I just wanted to check with the conservatives here, the GOP, and the Christian Sharia if I may refer to these gentlemen as "racists," as applicable in law 9257, section 17, subsection 17.47(a);

"LINDEN, Texas — This wisp of a town in the piney woods of East Texas is the birthplace of music greats T-Bone Walker and Scott Joplin — a bit of historical fortune that local officials hope one day will draw music-loving tourists here.
Today, however, Linden is wrestling with another identity: as the home of four white men involved in attacking a mentally disabled black man in 2003 and dumping him, unconscious and bleeding, along a country road in the middle of the night.

Billy Ray Johnson, now 46, has not recovered from a blow to his skull and will need nursing home care the rest of his life. The men involved were convicted of minor criminal charges; the longest sentence imposed was 60 days in jail."

A jury's stand against racism reflects hope - USATODAY.com

Oh, but that's just there, and it doesn't happen any where else, and discrimination just isn't a problem in other places. :rollseyes: