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Free will to choose free will
- Thread starter LooseEnd
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
From another thread moments ago....I quote myself
Creating the universe is one thing.
Standing alone....as the First....is another.
Someone had to be First.
Spirit would be that item to which substance responds.
At some point, you have to separate the two....spirit or substance.
Even if you consider only the energetic....pure energy....
Can it be guided?.....by will?....by spirit?
If not...spiritual life is not a possibility.
It seems no one here is thinking of God as ...thought and feeling.
Someone had to be First.
If He lacks the ability to 'form' His will....He is not the creator.
If He cannot 'form' His will....
Then the life we know is terminal....and hopeless."
I post this as it shows the Source of freewill.
Our sense of will is not as great. We humans lack the power of creation.
If we could be trusted with such ability...freewill would have so much more and such different meaning.
Sin?...as opposed to the show of self discipline?
Could be the reason we don't have the power of creation.
Creating the universe is one thing.
Standing alone....as the First....is another.
Someone had to be First.
Spirit would be that item to which substance responds.
At some point, you have to separate the two....spirit or substance.
Even if you consider only the energetic....pure energy....
Can it be guided?.....by will?....by spirit?
If not...spiritual life is not a possibility.
It seems no one here is thinking of God as ...thought and feeling.
Someone had to be First.
If He lacks the ability to 'form' His will....He is not the creator.
If He cannot 'form' His will....
Then the life we know is terminal....and hopeless."
I post this as it shows the Source of freewill.
Our sense of will is not as great. We humans lack the power of creation.
If we could be trusted with such ability...freewill would have so much more and such different meaning.
Sin?...as opposed to the show of self discipline?
Could be the reason we don't have the power of creation.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Lucky for you, it doesn't exist.
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
No free will until one is self-aware. So you probably don't have to worry about free will. Now go outside and play.
I'm not following you really.
Are you saying GOD does not exist or GOD exists but free will does not or there is no free will at all? Because if GOD does not exist then we do what we want, and that means we have free will anyways?
And Blah Blah Blah. Amusing.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
All of the above and your deduction is wrong.
Put it this way, "Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills."
CynthiaCypher
Well-Known Member
If you know what free will is, why would you have ask about it?
I see. Well in case where GOD does not exist free will, simply becomes will. That is what I meant.
I did not ask what free will is. I asked shouldn't we get a choice in even choosing what we want in a fair system?
Even if I know what something is, I'd still ask questions to know the ideas of others. There is a chance that what I know as I know is not actually the truth. It is a way of learning where I live.
To me it seems that the concept of intelligent design and Omnimax GOD invalidates free will. I just wanted to ask different kind of questions to know what others think.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
In either case, there is no free will, unless the soul is some sort of random effect generator, which is still not quite what people think free will is.
There's this barber. He shaves all the men in his village who don't shave themselves. You might want to ask him about this.
"Free will" (as used within christianity) is simply a scapegoat for god. It's god's free pass people have created to avoid blaming god for things that are, obviously, his fault -
Early chrsitians, "He's all knowing, He's all powerful, He created man, He created the devil
He created the tree of knowledge, He created Adam & Eve, He knew they would disobey him (or he wouldn't be all knowing), He allowed the devil to tempt them (or he wouldn't be all powerful), He threw them out of the garden and created death as a punishment for sin. So how can we releave him from ultimate responsibility? Let's creat 'free will'!"
All of this is, of course, assuming the bible's correct and god does exist....
So ultimately, all responsibility rolls up to god. This isn't to say we don't have some responsibility on our part (you drink and drive, get caught, you get in trouble). But ultimately, the final step of responsibility falls on god.
So, to answer your question in the manner in which it was offered: you don't get a chance. It's what you're given, so everything's your responsibility. Otherwise, there would be no need for you to come groveling back to god, would there? And for god, where would the fun and ego feeding if you don't do that?!?!
Thief
Rogue Theologian
So we 'freely' blame God for what we 'freely' did do....
And He 'will'... damn all who accuse Him....because he can't help Himself....
And ego tripping is not of free will?
Well I suppose you could say that God was bored when He created Man.
And Man is resentful that he was not created as God's equal....
And maybe God didn't have a choice?
1)Some do. But if god didn't want it to happen, it wouldn't
2)Who knows. Knowing doesn't matter in the end if he damns you
3)Is it?
4)If it's perfect, though it doesn't sound like the god taught of these days
5)Some perhaps. Others are just happy not to be an ego-maniac with power to kill others without remorse
6)Unlikely. Not that it would change how we feel about it
Trey of Diamonds
Well-Known Member
There are those who think that life is nothing left to chance,
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.
A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive.
"The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign"-
Blame is better to give than receive.
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.
There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them- they weren't born in lotus-land.
All preordained-
A prisoner in chains-
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.
Each of us-
A cell of awareness-
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.
Freewill
~ Rush
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.
A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive.
"The stars aren't aligned
Or the gods are malign"-
Blame is better to give than receive.
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.
There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them- they weren't born in lotus-land.
All preordained-
A prisoner in chains-
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In heaven's unearthly estate.
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.
Each of us-
A cell of awareness-
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.
Freewill
~ Rush
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Very nice. Of course some the lines are contrary.
Choose a path that's clear?...not likely.
Preordained?....so much for freewill.