Fresh outcry over Italian mayor's allegedly sexist comments

[Estro Felino]

My personal opinion is that that the male chauvinistic culture is still present, and he wants to point out he is a real man.

I think it's a reaction to the wokeism present in every aspect of the Western culture- and in country where heterosexual men seem to be the minority on Italian TV...or in the cultural mileus.

Also the clothing suggests he wants to be considered as one of the people. He is the only one in the Town Hall not wearing a suit.

 

[Stevicus]

Exactly.
In central Italy they are so "crass", you know, much more than Sicilians.
He could have used a polite language, and the contempt would have been more about alleged sexism.

There are plenty of people who say a lot of crude things in America, too. But that's all the more reason people speak out against it and call it out. It seems it's an ongoing battle. Much of Trump's language has also been called out, although his defenders might say it was only "locker room talk," where men might make crude or offensive remarks about women when it's just men by themselves, but not in the presence of women or the general public. But somehow, his "locker room talk" became public knowledge, and he was strongly criticized for it.

 

[Estro Felino]

There are plenty of people who say a lot of crude things in America, too. But that's all the more reason people speak out against it and call it out. It seems it's an ongoing battle. Much of Trump's language has also been called out, although his defenders might say it was only "locker room talk," where men might make crude or offensive remarks about women when it's just men by themselves, but not in the presence of women or the general public. But somehow, his "locker room talk" became public knowledge, and he was strongly criticized for it.

I do know that the ones who founded US were the Pilgrim Fathers, Puritan people persecuted by the Stuart Dynasty.
You are speaking of decency and decorum...

The problem is that in my country the vision is much more instinctual and chauvinistic...meaning that men catcall not because they are interested in the female passers-by, but to show their own pals that they are real men.
In fact no man catcalls a woman when he's all alone. At least, I have never seen him. It's always a group catcalling or catcalling with a male audience.

Same as for Berlusconi. When he made this joke in front of his wife... it was to show that his soccer players were all real men.

Berlusconi promises footballers a ‘bus full of whores’

Former Italian PM offers extra incentive for team if it beats top clubs.

www.politico.eu

 

[Stevicus]

I do know that the ones who founded US were the Pilgrim Fathers, Puritan people persecuted by the Stuart Dynasty.
You are speaking of decency and decorum...

The problem is that in my country the vision is much more instinctual and chauvinistic...meaning that men catcall not because they are interested in the female passers-by, but to show their own pals that they are real men.
In fact no man catcalls a woman when he's all alone. At least, I have never seen him. It's always a group catcalling or catcalling with a male audience.

Same as for Berlusconi. When he made this joke in front of his wife... it was to show that his soccer players were all real men.

Berlusconi promises footballers a ‘bus full of whores’

Former Italian PM offers extra incentive for team if it beats top clubs.

www.politico.eu

Yes, there are definitely cultural differences which one can discern. The Puritan culture might have had a different view of what is a "real man" than what might have been seen in other countries or cultures. Men's respect for women was also strongly tied in with respect for their fellow man and the community as a whole. A woman walking down the street is another man's sister or daughter, so if you insult them, then you insult the man they're associated with. There may be some paternal and sexist hypocrisy associated with that, but the end result was that men from "proper" families were conditioned and brought up to act like "gentlemen." By the same token, women were conditioned and brought up to act like "ladies."

Things have loosened up quite a bit over the past 50-100 years from what they used to be.

However, American men tend to prove their manhood through feats of physical strength or athletics or (all too often) violence or military prowess. American men might be a bit more reserved than Italian men in certain things, but we have a more powerful army and bigger missiles. At least, that's how Americans might tend to look at it. ("Real men don't surrender.")

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, there are definitely cultural differences which one can discern. The Puritan culture might have had a different view of what is a "real man" than what might have been seen in other countries or cultures. Men's respect for women was also strongly tied in with respect for their fellow man and the community as a whole. A woman walking down the street is another man's sister or daughter, so if you insult them, then you insult the man they're associated with. There may be some paternal and sexist hypocrisy associated with that, but the end result was that men from "proper" families were conditioned and brought up to act like "gentlemen." By the same token, women were conditioned and brought up to act like "ladies."

Things have loosened up quite a bit over the past 50-100 years from what they used to be.

However, American men tend to prove their manhood through feats of physical strength or athletics or (all too often) violence or military prowess. American men might be a bit more reserved than Italian men in certain things, but we have a more powerful army and bigger missiles. At least, that's how Americans might tend to look at it. ("Real men don't surrender.")

Italy is more "female" if you think about it, because manhood's man depends on women.
Men are always under pressure to prove they are into beautiful women.
I guess the mayor's speech speaks volumes.

Men choose the Miss Italys only because a beautiful wife is the evidence you're a real man. She's like their business card meant to prove they are 100% masculine.

 

[Stevicus]

Italy is more "female" if you think about it, because manhood's man depends on women.
Men are always under pressure to prove they are into beautiful women.
I guess the mayor's speech speaks volumes.

Men choose the Miss Italys only because a beautiful wife is the evidence you're a real man. She's like their business card meant to prove they are 100% masculine.

But as you say, they're doing it all to impress their fellow men. Whether or not they actually like the woman or how she feels about it seems to be of secondary or tertiary importance.

I often get the impression that Italians might fancy themselves as the world experts in love, although the French and Spanish might have something to say about that. I think our culture has tended to be more pragmatic and mechanically-minded, and I think most American men and women seem to go along with that, for better or worse. What people do for recreation and leisure is their own affair, but when it comes to work and getting a job done, then that's what we have to do.

 

[Estro Felino]

But as you say, they're doing it all to impress their fellow men. Whether or not they actually like the woman or how she feels about it seems to be of secondary or tertiary importance.

I often get the impression that Italians might fancy themselves as the world experts in love, although the French and Spanish might have something to say about that. I think our culture has tended to be more pragmatic and mechanically-minded, and I think most American men and women seem to go along with that, for better or worse. What people do for recreation and leisure is their own affair, but when it comes to work and getting a job done, then that's what we have to do.

Speaking of Europe, these are two F1 drivers. One is French, the other is from Austria.
What would American feminists have said? I imagine an army of angry feminists chasing these two men with clubs...

 

[Estro Felino]

He sounds like a sex-fixated boor with no sense of or respect for personal boundaries.

There's no way to rationalize cheating like he did without being vulgar, because the viewpoint itself is inherently vulgar. Changing the wording would merely be sugarcoating and shallow cosmetics.

He wasn't any different when he was elected mayor.
You know...maybe it's the rainbow wokeisme that pushes so many citizens to vote for "spontaneous" men who advertise heterosexuality...

 

[Stevicus]

Speaking of Europe, these are two F1 drivers. One is French, the other is from Austria.
What would American feminists have said? I imagine an army of angry feminists chasing these two men with clubs...

I have no idea how feminists would respond to this.

I am old enough to remember a time when women didn't really cover men's sports, although during the 1978 baseball season, a woman judge ordered the New York Yankees to open up their locker rooms to female journalists, claiming that it was discrimination to bar them from male locker rooms. But there were some hijinks associated with that when it came to pass. I would imagine that a woman choosing to take a job as a journalist covering men's sports would know the culture of athletes and how they behave.

 

[Secret Chief]

At least it's 2024 in most parts of the world.

- Judge proposes Spain's Luis Rubiales face trial over Hermoso World Cup kiss

 

[Estro Felino]

At least it's 2024 in most parts of the world.

- Judge proposes Spain's Luis Rubiales face trial over Hermoso World Cup kiss

At university it happened to me a couple of times.
I forgave the men.

 

[Estro Felino]

Fresh outcry over 'sexist' Terni mayor | ANSA.it

Well... in my humble opinion he said pretty acceptable things.
The problem is that he used vulgar words. He could have said it without being vulgar.

Could you comment on this video/ thread? @Father Heathen
I am curious about your opinion.

 

[Father Heathen]

My personal opinion is that that the male chauvinistic culture is still present, and he wants to point out he is a real man.

I think it's a reaction to the wokeism present in every aspect of the Western culture- and in country where heterosexual men seem to be the minority on Italian TV...or in the cultural mileus.

Also the clothing suggests he wants to be considered as one of the people. He is the only one in the Town Hall not wearing a suit.

How is it "woke" to treat other people with respect, or to show loyalty to someone you've committed to?

 

[Father Heathen]

Could you comment on this video/ thread? @Father Heathen
I am curious about your opinion.

"anyone who has never two-timed his girlfriend isn't normal"

It seems Italians don't value respect, loyalty, or honor. Do you see these values as being weak or effeminate?

 

[Father Heathen]

The problem is that in my country the vision is much more instinctual and chauvinistic...meaning that men catcall not because they are interested in the female passers-by, but to show their own pals that they are real men.

But real men are confident and secure enough that they have no need to seek reassurance or validation from others.

 

[Estro Felino]

But real men are confident and secure enough that they have no need to seek reassurance or validation from others.

Exactly.
So just put two and two together about the Italian men's alleged "absolute heterosexuality".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In my opinion the article didn't translate the speech that well.
I need to translate the exact words to make people understand why he was deemed as vulgar and sexist.

Spoiler: Vulgar language and sex language. Reader's discretion advised.

Italian men have understood me. At least, the normal ones have. The mentally sound ones. And all the normal women have understood me. It is true that Italy is full of imbeciles, so some can have trouble understanding my words. That I claim one by one. A normal man stares at a woman's nice *ss and maybe he will hit on her. If he succeeds, he will s*rew her too. If he doesn't, he will return home alone. Be offended as much as you want, but that's my opinion (idea).

He said that, but it means a "normal" man treats women likensex objects. He also said "normal" men cheat on their girlfriend/wife. And he says those who know and understand how inappropriate and ****ty that is are imbeciles.

 

[Estro Felino]

He said that, but it means a "normal" man treats women like sex objects. He also said "normal" men cheat on their girlfriend/wife. And he says those who know and understand how inappropriate and ****ty that is are imbeciles.

On such premises, don't you think American men are saints, in comparison?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

On such premises, don't you think American men are saints, in comparison?

Like everywhere else anywhere else, American men are a mixed bag of results. Just like Italian men where some know what he said was inappropriate while others support it.

 

[Estro Felino]

Like everywhere else anywhere else, American men are a mixed bag of results. Just like Italian men where some know what he said was inappropriate while others support it.

It turns out that he didn't resign after that.
What reaction would the mayor have caused in the US?