From one Christian personally view

[BenTheBeliever]

The past few days I've been in some heated debates. I got some stuff on my mind I need to rant on and get out. First off please take a second and step out of your own views and just please listen to what I am about to say. Second if you guys don't want me on here anymore I will leave. You'll have to tell me how to delete my account but I won't come back. With that said let's begin.

I think people see me lately as some hateful Christian. Or some anti gay person. Which is not true in all counts. In fact I am for equal rights. I don't believe in pushing my views on people. I just don't care having people do the same on me.

But lately I feel like that is kind of what been happing. I have battle with many non Christians on message boards since my teens years when I was on AOL teen boards all the way to when I was in my mid twenties and I left that board finally when it was closing down to join with AOL Christian Singles board and then a non Religion board where I met Jo at I believe. I went on to a friend board where I spent a few years on there until I finally left and started debating on Facebook groups for a few months before stumbling on to this place in my tablet one day when I missed message boards.

I remember one thing my grandpa told me when I was a teenager. Never debate two things with people: Politics and Religion. Both brings out the nasty in everyone. He is very right on that. God knows it bring out the nasty out of me a lot of times. It's funny I try so hard to run away from message boards and fighting. My wife never could understand why I enjoy debating on message boards. I think it's a guy thing personally for me. I can't fight off line. I don't have a health body and never had one growing up. So I think when I am on message boards or Facebook groups I let out the nasty side of myself I keep buried deep inside. I think a lot of people do that. When you are on a message board you don't know the person on the other side so when you insult the person it does not effect you cause hey you don't know them. You often forget that the person on the other side is still another human being with emotions.

As a Christian I often keep hearing about respecting their views and ideas. I don't mind respecting others I just ask for the same thing back. I ask that people respect mine and see I am not some heartless anti gay basher or anything like that. In fact if I was I would not be for equal rights, hello lol. But I am a Christian and here is where it get's really hard. You see as a Christian I am supposed to hold close to what the word of God says. That is my guide book to all things Christ 101. If God says something is a sin I need to view it as sin also. I often battle real bad off line with the idea of sin. I hate sin. I see how sin has destroy so many lifes including my dad who died just a few years after I met him as a teenager. I see how it can do so much damage to people that is why I believe it does lead to death. One way or another it leads to death.

As a Christian it is not easy to stand up for what God says. That is why he wants us to have our spiritual armor on IMO. He knew it would not be easy at all for us. That we would struggle in this world since we do not belong in this world but just passing through until we get back home when we die.

It is not easy for me ether to stand there and tell gay people they are sinning. It is not easy for me to stand there and say in God's eyes you are wrong. I got people I love dearly who are gay. I have never said that to their faces just yet cause I love them so much. But I want people to know it is not easy for us Christians to do that. You guys ever stop to think that you guys are the lucky ones right now. Before I became a born again I never felt guilt or anything. After I became a born again I begin to hear God's voice speaking to me and when ever I made a mistake I would hear him leading me down a different path after picking me up. In some area it is not real hard to be a Christian but in others like the gay issue it is hard as hell cause I know what God says but still I have another side that loves people. But I also love God so much that it hurts. So I want you guys to know it is not easy for me to stand on what God says in this issues but as a Christian I have to do that.

Now I want to talk about one more thing before ending this. I have often heard people call God a monster and all kinds of mean names. That effects me deeply cause on a personally note Christ is the only father I have ever had. Unless you are a born again I am sure you won't ever understand what I mean by that.

When I came to know him personally it was not an Atheist, or a Muslim or any other Faith based person that came into my broken world in 2000 when I was sitting on the steps in my old high school. It was a girl name Holly. A born again who just wanted me to know God loved me. I remember sitting with my headphones on slipknot wait and bleed playing and dress in black and baggie sweets on (like I still do). She saw a lonely teenager who was close to death and God lead her into my broken world.

You see my world has been a broken world. Broken promises from so many people. I battle fibromyalgia every day. I worked for 13 years as a bag boy from August of 01 until August of last year. I was just four days from 13 years when my body finally said screw you I am done. I have not been the same since. I have battle real bad pain. I can't even sleep unless I take pain pills. We are trying to get me back on SS. I was on it as a teenager. Until they said I was normal. Then they threw me in the system. The system still saw me as handicap and I went through 13 years of really bad hell. Stuff I can't even talk about. When I met my wife I was living on my own. been doing that since 02. I met her in 2011. we we're married 11 months later. now it has been three years. I've learned so much in those three years. But I still am a broken man. We are battling with money issues and my health. I often do think about turning my back on God complete and humanity and just stay in my world of depression. Depression can be so comfortable at times but it can also hurt so much that damage can be unfixed if you don't watch out.

Of course no matter how much I want to turn my back on God at times I never will. Cause I keep feeling him telling me to keep going. That soon that desert will be gone. You see I am a broken man who need salvation and found in the cross. Most Christians will tell you the same thing. They are broken people who need the cross. I hope you guys see how personally this way for me to talk about. I hope you guys can show some kind of respect in this thread and see this all came from my heart. I am not that different from you guys. I bleed red just like you. I love horror movies and super hero movies and I enjoy video games and rock and pop and rap. Both secular and Christian. I am just Ben. A broken man who's only hope in this world is Christ. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. Sorry it is long I just had to get this all off my chest. Thanks

 

[Thana]

Don't sweat the hate. Remember what Jesus says in John 15:19, John 15:18 and Matthew 10:22
Besides, As a Christian you should respect the non-believers as people and children of God, know that they can teach you a lot but also know that they are non-believers for a reason and it is not for you to be like them.

I know this site can kinda drag you down, And when you feel that way it's best just to leave for a couple a days and come back when you're in a better frame of mind. It takes strong faith to withstand this kind of debate, And it's commendable that you have done so. But it's not always healthy, especially spiritually. Consider what's best for you on whether you should stay or not, And ignore everybody else. Who cares if they want you to stay or not? It's up to you.

I hope that your pain eases, And I hope you feel better soon.

God bless

 

[Quintessence]

Try discussing rather than debating. You may, ultimately, find that more satisfying. I know I do. The problem with debating (and it really doesn't matter what the subject is, actually) is that there is this "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality instead of people simply listening to each other and learning from each other. Debate requires one be set, and being set allows one to become upset. Discussion requires not being set, but being open.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Keep in mind that the Bible says no one can come to Jesus unless the Father calls him. Those people who do not understand and preach hate have not been called so it is not their fault.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Don't sweat the hate. Remember what Jesus says in John 15:19, John 15:18 and Matthew 10:22
Besides, As a Christian you should respect the non-believers as people and children of God, know that they can teach you a lot but also know that they are non-believers for a reason and it is not for you to be like them.

I know this site can kinda drag you down, And when you feel that way it's best just to leave for a couple a days and come back when you're in a better frame of mind. It takes strong faith to withstand this kind of debate, And it's commendable that you have done so. But it's not always healthy, especially spiritually. Consider what's best for you on whether you should stay or not, And ignore everybody else. Who cares if they want you to stay or not? It's up to you.

I hope that your pain eases, And I hope you feel better soon.

God bless

thank you. I see we also go to the same type of churchs. I am a non also

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Try discussing rather than debating. You may, ultimately, find that more satisfying. I know I do. The problem with debating (and it really doesn't matter what the subject is, actually) is that there is this "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality instead of people simply listening to each other and learning from each other. Debate requires one be set, and being set allows one to become upset. Discussion requires not being set, but being open.

that is very true. I also try to believe we can learn stuff from different people. I have no problem getting to know people. I just hate how some attack my views and want to change them to met theirs but if I challenge theirs I seem to be the bad guy some how. it is crazy

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Keep in mind that the Bible says no one can come to Jesus unless the Father calls him. Those people who do not understand and preach hate have not been called so it is not their fault.

I don't know if I would say it is not their fault. I believe God every day is trying to reach us. some people just will never come to know him cause of free will. JMO

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The past few days I've been in some heated debates. I got some stuff on my mind I need to rant on and get out.

OK ...

 

[Laika]

you'll find many people online are going through the same battle; as a bisexual atheist I battle depression and there are many others on RF who also have depression (keep fighting btw). I also struggle with my own beliefs which don't offer the kind of fulfilling answers I'd most like to hear. I'm comfortable that they tell the truth but that often isn't enough. however, I have to admit that walking the path with strong convictions in this day and age is very hard as people tend to assume your wrong for believing in such things. it is much easier to believe only in the facts that are certian than take the risk of believing in something that is less certian; it stymies new, old and unpopular ideas which may actually get us the kind of world we really want to live in or become the kind of people that we want to be.

It is not easy for me ether to stand there and tell gay people they are sinning. It is not easy for me to stand there and say in God's eyes you are wrong. I got people I love dearly who are gay. I have never said that to their faces just yet cause I love them so much. But I want people to know it is not easy for us Christians to do that.

I tend to have more time for people who are able to reason out their beliefs as it means your putting the effort in and care about the consequences. Even with disagreement, its still going to be a better discussion than the kind of bloodbath where only an appeal to authority, whether god, science or public opinion, etc., has any weight. it takes a certian courage to do when you know people are going to disagree with you and it is a rare ability. it is however very difficult to do because we cannot divorce what we think from what we feel. Your grandpa was right to avoid politics and religion, though often these are subjects that can tell you most about how people see themselves and the role they think and want to play in the world. its therefore very personal and the internet brings out the worst in people because we can take the mask off and be ourselves (and get a platform no matter whatever foul mood we may be in). people will listen if you talk sense, though it won't be as big as we'd like it to be. keep trying. it does get through.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

you'll find many people online are going through the same battle; as a bisexual atheist I battle depression and there are many others on RF who also have depression (keep fighting btw). I also struggle with my own beliefs which don't offer the kind of fulfilling answers I'd most like to hear. I'm comfortable that they tell the truth but that often isn't enough. however, I have to admit that walking the path with strong convictions in this day and age is very hard as people tend to assume your wrong for believing in such things. it is much easier to believe only in the facts that are certian than take the risk of believing in something that is less certian; it stymies new, old and unpopular ideas which may actually get us the kind of world we really want to live in or become the kind of people that we want to be.



I tend to have more time for people who are able to reason out their beliefs as it means your putting the effort in and care about the consequences. Even with disagreement, its still going to be a better discussion than the kind of bloodbath where only an appeal to authority, whether god, science or public opinion, etc., has any weight. it takes a certian courage to do when you know people are going to disagree with you and it is a rare ability. it is however very difficult to do because we cannot divorce what we think from what we feel. Your grandpa was right to avoid politics and religion, though often these are subjects that can tell you most about how people see themselves and the role they think and want to play in the world. its therefore very personal and the internet brings out the worst in people because we can take the mask off and be ourselves (and get a platform no matter whatever foul mood we may be in). people will listen if you talk sense, though it won't be as big as we'd like it to be. keep trying. it does get through.

I really like what you said in all of this. You keep fighting the depression also. When I wrote this I felt naked if you will. I know some might see me as a fake Christian cause of this and that but like everyone else I am a human being as well. I make mistakes and I often question my Faith. Of course when I do God always shows me he is there holding me. I guess that is why it is so personally for me cause it is personally. The words in the Bible are not words to me. They are God speaking to our hearts. I get really emotionally when it comes to God. I believe it shows I am growing in him. I believe you can't speak about God and not get emotional some how.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Given that this thread is unfolding in the "Religious Debates" forum, I was wondering just what you're seeking to debate?

 

[Laika]

I really like what you said in all of this. You keep fighting the depression also. When I wrote this I felt naked if you will. I know some might see me as a fake Christian cause of this and that but like everyone else I am a human being as well. I make mistakes and I often question my Faith. Of course when I do God always shows me he is there holding me. I guess that is why it is so personally for me cause it is personally. The words in the Bible are not words to me. They are God speaking to our hearts. I get really emotionally when it comes to God. I believe it shows I am growing in him. I believe you can't speak about God and not get emotional some how.

thanks. I've found a problem is not necessarily when we feel naked because others see us as fake, but when somewhere in the back of our heads we see ourselves as fake. there is that unnerving sense of knowing we aren't living up to our expectations and dreading the moment when somebody pulls down the curtian and shows us for being less than we wish we were. I'm currently going through a 'phase' of questioning my beliefs as I realise I could not live up to them. [I'm a communist, and it's got to the point where I'm almost ashamed to admit it because of its problems.] basically they were never going to be truly 'my' beliefs and in the end it just got too painful to pretend otherwise as I was forcing myself to be someone I didn't want to be. it wasn't enough for me to tell myself they were true anymore. that little quiet voice saying "help me" just kept getting louder and louder.

As you said god is like a father to you, I can well understand why you would feel emotional and want to defend him. the sense of having a personal relationship with a higher power is very reassuring when we feel vulnerable. sometimes our sensitivity is because people hit a raw nerve and we have the weigh up whether its what we really believe or what we are supposed to believe. its easier to believe that other people are wrong, than the authority figures we take for granted and associate with. I've found that has been a major source of problems to me as I differred to a logical argument, rather than one I necessarily agreed with. I'm obviously not expecting you to give up your beliefs when I say this because of how personal they are, but sometimes it can be worth taking a step back and thinking about why observing the rules set down by authorities are important. they should not be an end in themselves as that defeats the purpose of personal/spiritual growth. that can offer us a way out of the conflicts by saying we can be the judge- though that is not a view I'd expect a believer to take.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Given that this thread is unfolding in the "Religious Debates" forum, I was wondering just what you're seeking to debate?

I don't talk on the other ones much. I mostly talk on this forum that is why I post it on here.

 

[Unification]

Try discussing rather than debating. You may, ultimately, find that more satisfying. I know I do. The problem with debating (and it really doesn't matter what the subject is, actually) is that there is this "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality instead of people simply listening to each other and learning from each other. Debate requires one be set, and being set allows one to become upset. Discussion requires not being set, but being open.

Love that. Listen and respond, not assume and react. Reasoning, as opposed to arguing and debating. Taming and denying the beast within.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

thanks. I've found a problem is not necessarily when we feel naked because others see us as fake, but when somewhere in the back of our heads we see ourselves as fake. there is that unnerving sense of knowing we aren't living up to our expectations and dreading the moment when somebody pulls down the curtian and shows us for being less than we wish we were. I'm currently going through a 'phase' of questioning my beliefs as I realise I could not live up to them. [I'm a communist, and it's got to the point where I'm almost ashamed to admit it because of its problems.] basically they were never going to be truly 'my' beliefs and in the end it just got too painful to pretend otherwise as I was forcing myself to be someone I didn't want to be. it wasn't enough for me to tell myself they were true anymore. that little quiet voice saying "help me" just kept getting louder and louder.

As you said god is like a father to you, I can well understand why you would feel emotional and want to defend him. the sense of having a personal relationship with a higher power is very reassuring when we feel vulnerable. sometimes our sensitivity is because people hit a raw nerve and we have the weigh up whether its what we really believe or what we are supposed to believe. its easier to believe that other people are wrong, than the authority figures we take for granted and associate with. I've found that has been a major source of problems to me as I differred to a logical argument, rather than one I necessarily agreed with. I'm obviously not expecting you to give up your beliefs when I say this because of how personal they are, but sometimes it can be worth taking a step back and thinking about why observing the rules set down by authorities are important. they should not be an end in themselves as that defeats the purpose of personal/spiritual growth. that can offer us a way out of the conflicts by saying we can be the judge- though that is not a view I'd expect a believer to take.

First off thank you for being honest and friendly at the same time. With some of the others I debate with they come as more pushy then friendly if that makes sense. It's like they want me to drop my Faith to please them. I think that is been my biggest issue in my life. I have sugar code my Faith to please people so much cause I want people to be happy. Of course my wife can see through that and knew I was being fake in that sense and so it made it hard for her to talk to me about our Faith for a while. But thing begin to change when God begin to show me how I want to please men so much that I ignore him complete. As a born again that is where my naked problem comes out. Do I please people or do I please my Lord? What a lot of people don't seem to grasp is my identy is in Christ. Before I met him I was an empty shell of a guy. It was not until I met him that I begin to change. I begin to see the world in a different light and I begin to hope for something more then what our human eyes can see or understand. I begin to draw close to him and hungry for a deeper walk and relationship with him. But still there was that other side of me that wanted to still please people. The saying is true you can't have two Lords. You can't have one side and then God on the other. You have to chose. but cause I chose God I am view as hateful and all kinds of names. I think that was where this thread was created at.

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Here are some lyrics to a song that has been one of my songs the past few years. This song I think talks about how I have been feeling

MATTHEW WEST LYRICS
"The Motions"

This might hurt, it's not safe
But I know that I've gotta make a change
I don't care if I break
At least I'll be feeling something

‘Cause just okay is not enough
Help me fight through the nothingness of life

I don't wanna go through the motions
I don't wanna go one more day
Without Your all consuming passion inside of me

I don't wanna spend my whole life asking
What if I had given everything
Instead of going through the motions?

No regrets, not this time
I'm gonna let my heart defeat my mind
Let Your love make me whole
I think I'm finally feeling something

‘Cause just okay is not enough
Help me fight through the nothingness of this life

‘Cause I don't wanna go through the motions
I don't wanna go one more day
Without your all consuming passion inside of me

I don't wanna spend my whole life asking
What if I had given everything
Instead of going through the motions?

Take me all the way
(Take me all the way)
Take me all the way
(‘Cause I don't wanna go through the motions)

Take me all the way
(Lord, I'm finally feeling something real)
Take me all the way

I don't wanna go through the motions
I don't wanna go one more day
Without Your all consuming passion inside of me

I don't wanna spend my whole life asking
What if I had given everything
Instead of going through the motions?

I don't wanna go through the motions
I don't wanna go one more day
Without Your all consuming passion inside of me

I don't wanna spend my whole life asking
What if I had given everything
Instead of going through the motions?
Take me all the way
(Take me all the way)
Take me all the way
(I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go)

Take me all the way
(Through the motions)
Take me all the way

I don't wanna go through the motions

 

[viole]

The past few days I've been in some heated debates. I got some stuff on my mind I need to rant on and get out. First off please take a second and step out of your own views and just please listen to what I am about to say. Second if you guys don't want me on here anymore I will leave. You'll have to tell me how to delete my account but I won't come back. With that said let's begin.

I think people see me lately as some hateful Christian. Or some anti gay person. Which is not true in all counts. In fact I am for equal rights. I don't believe in pushing my views on people. I just don't care having people do the same on me.

But lately I feel like that is kind of what been happing. I have battle with many non Christians on message boards since my teens years when I was on AOL teen boards all the way to when I was in my mid twenties and I left that board finally when it was closing down to join with AOL Christian Singles board and then a non Religion board where I met Jo at I believe. I went on to a friend board where I spent a few years on there until I finally left and started debating on Facebook groups for a few months before stumbling on to this place in my tablet one day when I missed message boards.

I remember one thing my grandpa told me when I was a teenager. Never debate two things with people: Politics and Religion. Both brings out the nasty in everyone. He is very right on that. God knows it bring out the nasty out of me a lot of times. It's funny I try so hard to run away from message boards and fighting. My wife never could understand why I enjoy debating on message boards. I think it's a guy thing personally for me. I can't fight off line. I don't have a health body and never had one growing up. So I think when I am on message boards or Facebook groups I let out the nasty side of myself I keep buried deep inside. I think a lot of people do that. When you are on a message board you don't know the person on the other side so when you insult the person it does not effect you cause hey you don't know them. You often forget that the person on the other side is still another human being with emotions.

As a Christian I often keep hearing about respecting their views and ideas. I don't mind respecting others I just ask for the same thing back. I ask that people respect mine and see I am not some heartless anti gay basher or anything like that. In fact if I was I would not be for equal rights, hello lol. But I am a Christian and here is where it get's really hard. You see as a Christian I am supposed to hold close to what the word of God says. That is my guide book to all things Christ 101. If God says something is a sin I need to view it as sin also. I often battle real bad off line with the idea of sin. I hate sin. I see how sin has destroy so many lifes including my dad who died just a few years after I met him as a teenager. I see how it can do so much damage to people that is why I believe it does lead to death. One way or another it leads to death.

As a Christian it is not easy to stand up for what God says. That is why he wants us to have our spiritual armor on IMO. He knew it would not be easy at all for us. That we would struggle in this world since we do not belong in this world but just passing through until we get back home when we die.

It is not easy for me ether to stand there and tell gay people they are sinning. It is not easy for me to stand there and say in God's eyes you are wrong. I got people I love dearly who are gay. I have never said that to their faces just yet cause I love them so much. But I want people to know it is not easy for us Christians to do that. You guys ever stop to think that you guys are the lucky ones right now. Before I became a born again I never felt guilt or anything. After I became a born again I begin to hear God's voice speaking to me and when ever I made a mistake I would hear him leading me down a different path after picking me up. In some area it is not real hard to be a Christian but in others like the gay issue it is hard as hell cause I know what God says but still I have another side that loves people. But I also love God so much that it hurts. So I want you guys to know it is not easy for me to stand on what God says in this issues but as a Christian I have to do that.

Now I want to talk about one more thing before ending this. I have often heard people call God a monster and all kinds of mean names. That effects me deeply cause on a personally note Christ is the only father I have ever had. Unless you are a born again I am sure you won't ever understand what I mean by that.

When I came to know him personally it was not an Atheist, or a Muslim or any other Faith based person that came into my broken world in 2000 when I was sitting on the steps in my old high school. It was a girl name Holly. A born again who just wanted me to know God loved me. I remember sitting with my headphones on slipknot wait and bleed playing and dress in black and baggie sweets on (like I still do). She saw a lonely teenager who was close to death and God lead her into my broken world.

You see my world has been a broken world. Broken promises from so many people. I battle fibromyalgia every day. I worked for 13 years as a bag boy from August of 01 until August of last year. I was just four days from 13 years when my body finally said screw you I am done. I have not been the same since. I have battle real bad pain. I can't even sleep unless I take pain pills. We are trying to get me back on SS. I was on it as a teenager. Until they said I was normal. Then they threw me in the system. The system still saw me as handicap and I went through 13 years of really bad hell. Stuff I can't even talk about. When I met my wife I was living on my own. been doing that since 02. I met her in 2011. we we're married 11 months later. now it has been three years. I've learned so much in those three years. But I still am a broken man. We are battling with money issues and my health. I often do think about turning my back on God complete and humanity and just stay in my world of depression. Depression can be so comfortable at times but it can also hurt so much that damage can be unfixed if you don't watch out.

Of course no matter how much I want to turn my back on God at times I never will. Cause I keep feeling him telling me to keep going. That soon that desert will be gone. You see I am a broken man who need salvation and found in the cross. Most Christians will tell you the same thing. They are broken people who need the cross. I hope you guys see how personally this way for me to talk about. I hope you guys can show some kind of respect in this thread and see this all came from my heart. I am not that different from you guys. I bleed red just like you. I love horror movies and super hero movies and I enjoy video games and rock and pop and rap. Both secular and Christian. I am just Ben. A broken man who's only hope in this world is Christ. Thank you for taking the time to read this thread. Sorry it is long I just had to get this all off my chest. Thanks

Let me ask you a question. In the middle ages Christians were burning non believers and heretics at the stake. Were they wrong?

I am not bashing Christianity because of that now. My point is that probably those Christians were absolutely convinced that it was the best thing to do for those people souls. In a sense, they were morally justified to do that. If I had been a Franciscan friar in the year 1200, I would have probably, in good conscience, burned or tortured several people in order to cleanse their souls for eternal life. And what is this life when compared with eternal life in the prsence of God?

Now, even thought I am not putting discrimination of gays and burning them at the same moral level, what would you do with gays who do not care at all about your God?

Would you insist in discriminating them, or would you allow them to marry, if they want? Not same rights. Full blown marriage.

And if you still insist in discriminating them because your God said that homosexuality is a sin, and it is therefore a bad idea for their eternal destiny to let them do that, how does that make you different from that Medieval friar?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Laika]

First off thank you for being honest and friendly at the same time. With some of the others I debate with they come as more pushy then friendly if that makes sense. It's like they want me to drop my Faith to please them. I think that is been my biggest issue in my life. I have sugar code my Faith to please people so much cause I want people to be happy. Of course my wife can see through that and knew I was being fake in that sense and so it made it hard for her to talk to me about our Faith for a while. But thing begin to change when God begin to show me how I want to please men so much that I ignore him complete. As a born again that is where my naked problem comes out. Do I please people or do I please my Lord? What a lot of people don't seem to grasp is my identy is in Christ. Before I met him I was an empty shell of a guy. It was not until I met him that I begin to change. I begin to see the world in a different light and I begin to hope for something more then what our human eyes can see or understand. I begin to draw close to him and hungry for a deeper walk and relationship with him. But still there was that other side of me that wanted to still please people. The saying is true you can't have two Lords. You can't have one side and then God on the other. You have to chose. but cause I chose God I am view as hateful and all kinds of names. I think that was where this thread was created at.

thanks again, It's a bit tricky as I don't want to come off as an ***. there's the temptation to avoid being honest and yet that's a sort of betrayal. I've been in a similar position in that being a communist gave me a great deal of hope, particuarly to battle depression. the downside, is that it has entailed a monopoly that only the party line is the "correct" one and that people who do not accept this line as "counter-revolutionaries". Whilst not a religion, the similarities between biblical literalism and the conception of sin is fairly obvious. the difficulty is that whilst I may have kept it out of sight, it was never really out of mind.

there is that horrible sense that your surronded by these really nice freindly people but because they can't be considered "good" because they aren't of the "correct" belief system or behave in the "right" way. For Christians this means they're going to "hell"; for communists, its going to involve some sort of "camp" where "they" will be "re-educated" to accept the "party line".

it's the same problem of telling ourselves, yes "god is good"/ the "state is good" but that's why he/she gets to do "bad" things and yet somehow they remain "good". Whilst this is a logical extention of my beliefs, it just doesn't stop feeling.. "wrong". As much as I tell myself otherwise, that there is some "sense" behind it, it just crumples under the strain. nothing stops that voice in my head pointing out the insanity of it all. it's too ugly. the more we think about it, the less it makes sense that what is universally wrong for us to do, is somehow ok for those with power to do it to us "for our own good". we shouldn't love an authority because of their authority but by virtue that it does is good.

ultimately, it is not a question of chosing two masters, e.g. whether we obey gods commandments, or respect the rights of gays. it is about being our own master and following our own conscience, even if we accept that it is going to be an imperfect judge of right and wrong. we may not get it right, but at least we are in control and know we can learn from our mistakes. So far, this is the only solution that has given me any sense of 'peace', though it is obviously a betrayal of the most literal interpretations of my own beliefs. you don't chose god or the sinners, you can chose to be yourself. whether you should is up to you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In addition to your OP, when I came on RF it felt lile that too. I came and in my religious title I said, I am Catholic by vows, Buddhist by faith, and pagan by both (cant remember how I phased it). I was attacked because I still love the Church. I always wondered how anyone can put someone down based on words.

I also think its the nature of this forum and being online. Christianity seems to be the "gennie pig" in many debates because a lot of people come from abrahamic backgrounds or live in a environment where half the people believe one thing but act another.

I understand why it can be taken personal, but its not. Some of us have preconcieved notions of what All christians should believe and then debate as if you bekieve what they think you shoulf and they arent christian. Mental gymnastics.

I agree with Quee its best to discuss and not debate. I agree with Thana that this place can bring you down and taking a break helps a lot. In the end, one has to do whats best for their spiritual health.

that is very true. I also try to believe we can learn stuff from different people. I have no problem getting to know people. I just hate how some attack my views and want to change them to met theirs but if I challenge theirs I seem to be the bad guy some how. it is crazy

Its the "christianity is the genni pig" thing. I dont know if people realize that people are what they believe. Ive had debates about just that: we are what we believe. So my talking down to Christ is my doing so His children.

Bascialy, Im trying to say in so many words, I understand. I have to sugar code my faith which I hate; its not a good feeling.

On a technical note, you can set people on ignore if you feel they are disrespecting you to the point of ill conversation (for whatever reason). Some people find that helpful.

 

[Nakosis]

People can often feel there is something off when you're faking it. So they'll criticized you for that anyway.

I'd rather folks be totally honest with me, even if they think I'm a idiot or just wrong rather than agreeing with me just for the sake of being agreeable. Better they tell you that you are an idiot to your face than tell everyone else you are an idiot behind your back. At least you know who you are really dealing with and they'll be honest with you even if it hurts.

So yes I may be critical about your beliefs, and compare some Christian concepts of God to a monster. But that is how I feel. I want to be as honest in how I express myself to you as I want you to be just as honest with me.

I think it is important to allow folks the freedom to express themselves even if some times you find it offensive and hurtful. I respect that you can express your faith and beliefs. I would not want you to ever stop doing so, but you got to let me do the same.