From one Christian personally view

[viole]

First off I am all for equal rights. I am also a Christian though.

Being a Christian does not entail opposing gay marriage. The main churches in Scandinavia, including the official church of Sweden, happily marries gays.

Second no I would love Satan nor would God want me to

Well, the Bible does not seem to make exceptions. Love thy enemy. Period. That does not mean you should do what he wants, but you should love him, like all enemies of yours, if you are a Christian that follows the Gospel.

What I would not do is praying for him. Not because he does not deserve to be prayed to, but because it would be a loss of time if the events in John's Revelation concerning him are supposed to happen anyway.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Being a Christian does not entail opposing gay marriage. The main churches in Scandinavia, including the official church of Sweden, happily marries gays.



Well, the Bible does not seem to make exceptions. Love thy enemy. Period. That does not mean you should do what he wants, but you should love him, like all enemies of yours, if you are a Christian that follows the Gospel.

What I would not do is praying for him. Not because he does not deserve to be prayed to, but because it would be a loss of time if the events in John's Revelation concerning him are supposed to happen anyway.

Ciao

- viole

I have never heard of any Christian loving satan

 

[viole]

I have never heard of any Christian loving satan

Well, then the Christians you heard of do not take the Gospel seriously.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Well, then the Christians you heard of do not take the Gospel seriously.

Ciao

- viole

No where does it say we are supposed to love Satan. When he is talking about our enemies he is talking about our human enemies not Satan

 

[viole]

No where does it say we are supposed to love Satan. When he is talking about our enemies he is talking about our human enemies not Satan

Where does it say "human"? You are making things up, I think, whilst providing no biblical evidence whatsoever of what you say.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Where does it say "human"? You are making things up, I think, whilst providing no biblical evidence whatsoever of what you say.

Ciao

- viole

I am not making it up. No where does Jesus tell us to love Satan. In fact Jesus tells us to fight him

 

[viole]

I am not making it up. No where does Jesus tell us to love Satan. In fact Jesus tells us to fight him

Yes, but asking to fight someone does not entail we should not love him. Don't you guys love the sinner but hate the sin?
Don't you fight gay marriage despite people really wanting it, while loving the proponents of gay marriage?

I expect Jesus would also ask us to fight someone like Hitler (correct me if I am wrong). A human. According to your line of reasoning, you should not love Hitler either, a human, contradicting the Gospel once again.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BenTheBeliever]

Yes, but asking to fight someone does not entail we should not love him. Don't you guys love the sinner but hate the sin?
Don't you fight gay marriage despite people really wanting it, while loving the proponents of gay marriage?

I expect Jesus would also ask us to fight someone like Hitler (correct me if I am wrong). A human. According to your line of reasoning, you should not love Hitler either, a human, contradicting the Gospel once again.

Ciao

- viole

Loving Satan is bs. As for gay marriages I already stated I am for equal rights. I don't agree with gays but I am still for equal rights. I have no problem loving a human being but no Satan. Not now or never.

 

[viole]

Loving Satan is bs. As for gay marriages I already stated I am for equal rights. I don't agree with gays but I am still for equal rights. I have no problem loving a human being but no Satan. Not now or never.

You are perfectly free to do that. My only contention is that you are contradicting the requests from Jesus to love your enemies, without any further indication who those enemies might be (otherwise he would have written it, knowing about all these pesky atheists teasing the poor Christian ).

But I am thrilled that you do not oppose the right of gays to marry.

Ciao

- viole

 

[BenTheBeliever]

You are perfectly free to do that. My only contention is that you are contradicting the requests from Jesus to love your enemies, without any further indication who those enemies might be (otherwise he would have written it, knowing about all these pesky atheists teasing the poor Christian ).

But I am thrilled that you do not oppose the right of gays to marry.

Ciao

- viole

If I did not know it better you are trying to bait me here so you can say I am not a good Christian for not living Satan

 

[BenTheBeliever]

http://christianity.stackexchange.c...-we-love-satan-since-he-is-our-greatest-enemy

 

[Akivah]

I think people see me lately as some hateful Christian. Or some anti gay person. Which is not true in all counts. In fact I am for equal rights. I don't believe in pushing my views on people. I just don't care having people do the same on me.

{snip}

I remember one thing my grandpa told me when I was a teenager. Never debate two things with people: Politics and Religion. Both brings out the nasty in everyone. He is very right on that.

Shalom Ben

Your grandpappy was right, religion is a heated topic. And even more so, talking about people's cherished convictions will get quick and/or heated responses. When I posted my opposition to homosexual marriages, I got a lot of heat. It's the nature of the beast. Post your opinion and expect opposing responses. Keep in mind that you won't change anyone's mind. And no one's opinion has any effect on your own. So if someone expresses an opinion that you feel denigrates your religion, then you can respond. But don't expect their opinions to change. It isn't a question of respect, it's about free expression of opinion including those that you don't like.

 

[viole]

If I did not know it better you are trying to bait me here so you can say I am not a good Christian for not living Satan

I am not judge nor jury. i am an atheist who does not believe there is such a thing as God or Satan.

I am just pointing out what the Bible says. The fact that it contradicts what good people like you think or feel is just additional evidence to me that it is a patchwork deriving from ancient superstitious humans without any talent for logical consistency nor clarity.

By the way, is it true that you do not oppose the right of gays to marry?

Ciao

- viole

 

[BenTheBeliever]

I am not judge nor jury. i am an atheist who does not believe there is such a thing as God or Satan.

I am just pointing out what the Bible says. The fact that it contradicts what good people like you think or feel is just additional evidence to me that it is a patchwork deriving from ancient superstitious humans without any talent for logical consistency nor clarity.

By the way, is it true that you do not oppose the right of gays to marry?

Ciao

- viole

I am not against them doing that. I don't agree spiritual but I do respect their right for happiness

 

[sojourner]

I am not judge nor jury. i am an atheist who does not believe there is such a thing as God or Satan.

I am just pointing out what the Bible says. The fact that it contradicts what good people like you think or feel is just additional evidence to me that it is a patchwork deriving from ancient superstitious humans without any talent for logical consistency nor clarity.

By the way, is it true that you do not oppose the right of gays to marry?

Ciao

- viole

This is nothing more than logical fallacy masquerading as reason. You're pointing out one passage from the bible -- a passage taken completely out of context -- and applying a meaning to the passage that, clearly, is not indicated. This is nothing more than the same kind of semantic game-playing when seeing a stop sign and berating people for not stopping talking, singing, or chewing gum. Yes, the sign says "stop." But it clearly implies that what is to be stopped is the forward momentum of the vehicle, even though it doesn't explicitly say so. The passage is included in a larger passage detailing how we are to treat people -- not spirits. Therefore, the implication is that the passage refers to people, not Satan. You're, therefore, not "pointing out 'what the bible says.'" You're merely pointing out that you know how to construct straw men. The only evidence you have is that you've managed to completely misuse the text you have no use for, in an attempt to further dismiss it.

You're better than that, aren't you?

 

[viole]

This is nothing more than logical fallacy masquerading as reason. You're pointing out one passage from the bible -- a passage taken completely out of context -- and applying a meaning to the passage that, clearly, is not indicated. This is nothing more than the same kind of semantic game-playing when seeing a stop sign and berating people for not stopping talking, singing, or chewing gum. Yes, the sign says "stop." But it clearly implies that what is to be stopped is the forward momentum of the vehicle, even though it doesn't explicitly say so. The passage is included in a larger passage detailing how we are to treat people -- not spirits. Therefore, the implication is that the passage refers to people, not Satan. You're, therefore, not "pointing out 'what the bible says.'" You're merely pointing out that you know how to construct straw men. The only evidence you have is that you've managed to completely misuse the text you have no use for, in an attempt to further dismiss it.

You're better than that, aren't you?

What straw men? I am just pointing out that the Bible is not clear. It says to love your enemy and nothing more. It does not say anywhere this is valid for humans only. It would have taken two additional words: "excluding Satan". That would have added clarity at the cost of increasing the size in a negligible way. After all, if the same book spends pages with useless geneology of some prophets, i don't see why not add some few words and shut up those pesky future atheists

By the way, Jesus said you should also hate your parents if you want to be a disciple. I suppose, our parents are humans. Suppose that one of my parents is so bad that I can consider him an enemy of mine.

So, should I love (as an enemy) and hate (as a parent) at the same time the same person?

Let me guess the next defense: out of context!

Ciao

- viole

 

[sojourner]

What straw men? I am just pointing out that the Bible is not clear.

You're not pointing out that the bible is not clear. You're only pointing out that you're willfully misrepresenting what it says in some twisted attempt to get a rise out of a poster. Please refer to Forum Rule #3.

It says to love your enemy and nothing more.

Yes, but what is the context? As I pointed out above, "Stop" can refer to stopping a motor vehicle, or it can refer to a person running, depending on the context in which it's said. And it would be ridiculous and disingenuous to suggest that a stop sign (the context) is "unclear" in its intended meaning.

It does not say anywhere this is valid for humans only. It would have taken two additional words: "excluding Satan".

It doesn't need to do that. Within the context, it's already understood that it's not incumbent upon us to love Satan.

By the way, Jesus said you should also hate your parents if you want to be a disciple. I suppose, our parents are humans. Suppose that one of my parents is so bad that I can consider him an enemy of mine.

I'm not going to get drawn any further into some misguided contextual debate with you, when your intent is clear. It's counterproductive. Suffice to say that no one's lending any weight to your posts here.

 

[viole]

I'm not going to get drawn any further into some misguided contextual debate with you, when your intent is clear.

Of course my intent is clear. I am debating on a debate forum. With grown ups, I expect.

By the way, if things are so obvious when they are not explicetely said, and "out of context" can be used as a defense, it would be easy to defend Zeus just by using one of Homer's books. Not to speak of any other "Holy book" of your choice.

And that would beg enother question: why do some Christians like to add little verses from the Bible without attaching the whole context?

Suffice to say that no one's lending any weight to your posts here.

You seem to do exactly that

Ciao

- viole

 

[sojourner]

Of course my intent is clear. I am debating on a debate forum.

It's your intent in formulating your debate that's in question here.

"out of context" can be used as a defense

"Out of context" can't be used as a reasonable defense here.

it would be easy to defend Zeus just by using one of Homer's books.

We're not defending Zeus. We're defending the validity of a religious teaching, within the biblical context.

why do some Christians like to add little verses from the Bible without attaching the whole context?

Because it appears to serve their purposes. They're just as wrong, generally, in doing that as you are here.

You seem to do exactly that

No, I'm not. If I were, I'd be agreeing with your position and your argument. Clearly, I don't.

 

[viole]

It's your intent in formulating your debate that's in question here.

Why? I just asked an innocent question. The answer was that it was a stupid question, so I am not sure who needs to improve his retorical skills. Incidentally, I am not the first to ask this question, which is probably as old as Christianity.

"Out of context" can't be used as a reasonable defense here.

We're not defending Zeus. We're defending the validity of a religious teaching, within the biblical context.

I don't think it is a valid defense. It isn't because it is based on assumptions that are nowhere to be found in the Bible. All we read is "love your enemy" without any strings attached.

And as I said, commanding to oppose, with everything we got, the devil, the creator of lies, does not entail logically that we should not love him. I expect we should oppose Hitler as well, the creator of destruction and murder, but that does not entail we (or, better, Christians) should not love him. Actually, every Christian should love Hitler, Stalin or Gengis Khan for they were definitely not spirits.

Because it appears to serve their purposes. They're just as wrong, generally, in doing that as you are here.

I actually love to be proven wrong. Everytime it happens, I learned something new. So, show me your biblical evidence that we should not love Satan.

No, I'm not. If I were, I'd be agreeing with your position and your argument. Clearly, I don't.

Do you only give weight with opinions you agree with?

Ciao

- viole