From where are rights derived?

[Subduction Zone]

Well, I’m not in a Muslim country, thankfully. My perspective is that of the Declaration of Independence, which states… “that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights”. Certainly, throughout history people have been dependent on a government, king, landowner, church, or other authority for some or all of their freedom. Nevertheless, I believe human rights are ultimately given by God, but in human run societies, we will always be dependent on other humans to allow us to exercise our rights with varying degrees of freedom or lack thereof, in line with God’s will or contrary to it.

That is your error. You cannot assume that everything is like the US. And why even bring up the Declaration of Independence? That has very little to do with where your rights came from in this country.

 

[InChrist]

So the government of Nazi Germany had authority from God.

So Black people had to submit to the Confederate Staes of America because God gave it authority?

No, you have heard of disobedience to God’s will, haven’t you? Those who have been placed in a position of authority, power, or influence over the lives of others will be held to a greater degree of accountability and judgment for abusing their authority.

 

[F1fan]

Well, I’m not in a Muslim country, thankfully. My perspective is that of the Declaration of Independence, which states… “that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights”. Certainly, throughout history people have been dependent on a government, king, landowner, church, or other authority for some or all of their freedom. Nevertheless, I believe human rights are ultimately given by God, but in human run societies, we will always be dependent on other humans to allow us to exercise our rights with varying degrees of freedom or lack thereof, in line with God’s will or contrary to it.

Except women, Blacks, Native Americans, and others who weren’t white men lacked various rights. Was that the Creator’s wish? If so how are women allowed to vote? It must go against God.

 

[F1fan]

No, you have heard of disobedience to God’s will, haven’t you? Those who have been placed in a position of authority, power, or influence over the lives of others will be held to a greater degree of accountability and judgment for abusing their authority.

So you were wrong in your broad claim about God giving governments authority. So only some governments? Does the Bible tell us which ones?

 

[InChrist]

That is your error. You cannot assume that everything is like the US. And why even bring up the Declaration of Independence? That has very little to do with where your rights came from in this country.

I am aware that everywhere is not like the US. I brought up the Declaration of Independence because that document was foundational for establishing the new US government in acknowledging that human rights come from God, not a king (or government).

 

[InChrist]

Except women, Blacks, Native Americans, and others who weren’t white men lacked various rights. Was that the Creator’s wish? If so how are women allowed to vote? It must go against God.

God created all people in His image with equal rights. Governments composed of sinful humans often govern outside of God’s will.

 

[InChrist]

So you were wrong in your broad claim about God giving governments authority. So only some governments? Does the Bible tell us which ones?

I’m not wrong. All government in general is instituted by God, yet specifically some governments are more in line with God’s will and design for just governing than others.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, you have heard of disobedience to God’s will, haven’t you? Those who have been placed in a position of authority, power, or influence over the lives of others will be held to a greater degree of accountability and judgment for abusing their authority.

Oh. . . so they get the extra hot coals while being tortured forever.

Your version of God only gets more and more evil.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God created all people in His image with equal rights. Governments composed of sinful humans often govern outside of God’s will.

That does not appear to be the case. You may believe it but the evidence tells us otherwise.

 

[InChrist]

Oh. . . so they get the extra hot coals while being tortured forever.

Your version of God only gets more and more evil.

The Bible says nothing about torture or hot coals. What do you think, though, should people like Hitler, Stalin o Mao have a free pass to a wonderful, glorious life in heaven? I’m asking theoretically, as I assume you don’t actually believe in heaven or eternal separation from God.

 

[InChrist]

That does not appear to be the case. You may believe it but the evidence tells us otherwise.

What doesn’t appear to be the case?

 

[sun rise]

I'm not certain whether rights come from God or from government. I only know that, as a Jew, I've been taught to focus on our responsibilities, obligations, mitzvot -- both towards God and our fellow human beings.

Maybe if more people focused on their responsibilities towards others, the question of rights would take care of itself?

There's two ways to look at rights. One is the selfish perspective where people focus on what they themselves feel they are entitled to. A focus on responsibilities can be a path to eliminating personal selfishness and growing closer to Divinity.

Rights can be that which enables people to live together - which promotes a just and free society allowing people to reach their full potential. In this sense, to me, a real right is the freedom to, in Jewish terms, practice mitvot.

 

[sun rise]

Well, I’m not in a Muslim country, thankfully. ... believe human rights are ultimately given by God,

Muslims would share your belief that rights are given by God.

The current crop of governments is far from the highest ideals espoused by religions. And even in America, there are those who would impose their beliefs on others with the most extreme religious doctrine. So the different to me is one of degree not of kind.

 

[sun rise]

Except women, Blacks, Native Americans, and others who weren’t white men lacked various rights. Was that the Creator’s wish? If so how are women allowed to vote? It must go against God.

The ideal is true. The practice has been far from that and progress painfully slow, even going backwards at times as we see today.

 

[InChrist]

Muslims would share your belief that rights are given by God.

The current crop of governments is far from the highest ideals espoused by religions. And even in America, there are those who would impose their beliefs on others with the most extreme religious doctrine. So the different to me is one of degree not of kind.

Sounds pretty accurate.

 

[sayak83]

Fundamentally, from where do you believe that rights come from??

Rights are outcomes of social contract between individuals who form a part of the the society.
Social Contract Theory | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Bible says nothing about torture or hot coals. What do you think, though, should people like Hitler, Stalin o Mao have a free pass to a wonderful, glorious life in heaven? I’m asking theoretically, as I assume you don’t actually believe in heaven or eternal separation from God.

Actually the Bible does say that. But Christians pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe.

You seem to have your own version of heaven. What is it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What doesn’t appear to be the case?

The whole creation myth.

 

[Heyo]

No, you have heard of disobedience to God’s will, haven’t you? Those who have been placed in a position of authority, power, or influence over the lives of others will be held to a greater degree of accountability and judgment for abusing their authority.

Do you really have a right if no-one is there to enforce it?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Fundamentally, from where do you believe that rights come from??

Social interaction, experience, reflection, empathy, communication/ discussion and consensus.

Then, that bundle is institutionally legitimised, passed down to the individual via socialisation and worked on again.

But in essence, human rights stem from what each one of us wants for ourselves and loved ones.

Humbly,
Hermit