If you say so....it’s called faith.
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From where did the "wives" of Cain and Abel come?
- Thread starter Jonathan Bailey
- Start date
If you say so....it’s called faith.
I think they were pretty spot on actually; the closer they were to perfection the longer they lived and the less likely that inbreeding would cause any genetic problems.....you can think whatever you like.
If you are waiting for the absolute proof of God's existence you will find that only those who exercised faith in the Creator will benefit from what he has planned for this earth. But you probably wouldn't like living forever in paradise with all those religious people anyway.....
am I right?
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
I think they were pretty spot on actually; the closer they were to perfection the longer they lived and the less likely that inbreeding would cause any genetic problems.....you can think whatever you like.
If you are waiting for the absolute proof of God's existence you will find that only those who exercised faith in the Creator will benefit from what he has planned for this earth. But you probably wouldn't like living forever in paradise with all those religious people anyway.....
You are simply making things up, Deeje. You have absolutely no evidence concerning genetic capabilities from millions of years ago regarding longevity, inbreeding, or anything else. Well, maybe from 6 thousand years, depending upon which of the thousands of different variations of Christianity you favor.
There is no such thing as absolute proof. Only a reasonable level of evidence. I don't require absolute proof for anything I believe and neither does anyone else. There is virtually nothing that one cannot believe solely on faith, so faith is NOT a dependable pathway to truth of any kind.
Wouldn't want to live forever with SOME of the religious people I have met, for sure. And potentially wouldn't want to live forever under any circumstances. What does one do after the first hundred trillion years? But regardless of the people, I do not hold the proposed Christian god in high regard. I see him as an immoral thug. I don't see him as worthy of worship.
We are not part of Christendom and share very little of their beliefs. YEC is something we reject.
Going by the Bible we can do what science does...deduce a situation from information that is available.
The Bible allows for a very ancient earth and also for the creative "days" being unstated eons of time. This means that there was plenty of time for the dinosaurs to come and go, fulfilling whatever role God intended for them to carry out. They never co-existed with man.
Humans will believe whatever suits their chosen worldview.....they always have. My faith is reinforced by creation because I see no accidents of nature....everything is too well planned and the complexity too involved to be the product of any random mutation. DNA is an amazing information transference that you believe had no writer. Information has to have a source...an intelligent source.
I can assure you that God will never force anyone to believe anything against their will. But he has plans for his earth and gives us an opportunity to be part of them. If we don't want what he is offering, then life will end and there will be nothing more.....isn't this what atheists believe anyway? Would God be robbing you of anything in that case?
The future held out by the Bible is one of unending life in beautiful surroundings, with perfect brain and memory capacity, and the whole of nature to explore, with new varieties arising all the time.
Some scientists spend an entire lifetime studying one species.....imagine how many species there would be to study if you had forever? And what if interstellar travel was opened up for more exploration? Who knows what the Creator has in store...its a big universe!
I'm very optimistic.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
We are not part of Christendom and share very little of their beliefs. YEC is something we reject.
Going by the Bible we can do what science does...deduce a situation from information that is available.
The Bible allows for a very ancient earth and also for the creative "days" being unstated eons of time. This means that there was plenty of time for the dinosaurs to come and go, fulfilling whatever role God intended for them to carry out. They never co-existed with man.
Humans will believe whatever suits their chosen worldview.....they always have. My faith is reinforced by creation because I see no accidents of nature....everything is too well planned and the complexity too involved to be the product of any random mutation. DNA is an amazing information transference that you believe had no writer. Information has to have a source...an intelligent source.
I can assure you that God will never force anyone to believe anything against their will. But he has plans for his earth and gives us an opportunity to be part of them. If we don't want what he is offering, then life will end and there will be nothing more.....isn't this what atheists believe anyway? Would God be robbing you of anything in that case?
The future held out by the Bible is one of unending life in beautiful surroundings, with perfect brain and memory capacity, and the whole of nature to explore, with new varieties arising all the time.
Some scientists spend an entire lifetime studying one species.....imagine how many species there would be to study if you had forever? And what if interstellar travel was opened up for more exploration? Who knows what the Creator has in store...its a big universe!
It is evident that the Bible can be and is continually interpreted to fit the whims of a given person or group all the time, and uncomfortable passages are ignored or dismissed.
It's interesting that you think that you can give your personal assurances about what a god may or may not want to do. Not many people feel they hold sway over a god.
Where in the Bible does it define a day as "unstated eons of time"?
I do not see any "planning". I see a naturally evolving universe and naturally evolving life forms on a single planet (that we know of so far).
Humans form their worldview in various ways. It is informed by all the personal experiences they accumulate as they grow up and navigate life. It also includes the particular religious indoctrination they have received (If you are born of parents who are Islamic, you are more likely to be Islamic, etc.). Add to that the educational level and specific fields of study. Then there is the genetic component, which dictates temperament, ability to grasp the abstract, etc. And of course, there is the subconscious brain, which subtly informs all that we do without us even being aware.
Personally, I choose to go where the evidence seems to point, and not go where I wish to go and selectively try to shoe-horn bits of evidence into what I wish to be true.
Yet in every situation, there is one right interpretation. As I believe that the Creator is the one sorting the “sheep from the goats”, it is obvious to me that he can choose whom to reveal the “right” interpretation to. We think we are evaluating this God through a multitude of information sources, but the truth is, he is evaluating us as potential citizens of his “new earth” (2 Peter 3:13) just by our response to his message. This is not the promise of a new planet, but a new earthly society of specially chosen people....ones who can comply willingly with God’s instructions without complaint. What kind of ruler would want rebellious people in his Kingdom? Free will means that we choose to be who we are. We can choose to obey God or reject him....are you not grateful for the choice? Or would you rather have been created as a compliant robot?
It’s got nothing to do with anyone holding sway over God....it’s got more to do with God holding sway over those who love him, not with a big stick, but with the offer of life under the rulership of his kingdom. We do so willingly because his commands are not too demanding or difficult to comply with unless your will fights with God’s.
It is one of the meanings of the Hebrew word for “day”. In Genesis 2:4 it says the whole of creation took place in a “day”. It doesn’t just mean 24 hours. Science tells us that the earth is billions of years old. The Bible does not argue with that. The first verse in Genesis ch 1 is simply a statement about the “Big Bang”. There is no timeframe mentioned as to how much time elapsed between a formless uninhabitable planet being slowly transformed into a suitable habitat for living creatures. It may well have been millions of earth years.
I love how atheists use the word “natural” and “nature” as if these somehow perform magic in their creative abilities. Who gave them their abilities? There is so much glossed over under these banners. I attribute genius to the Creator of nature. He is the one who established all the principles by which “nature” takes its course. That to me, is simple logic. Life cannot spring into existence spontaneously.....science knows this. What looks designed, usually is. Design requires intelligence.....
There is no denying the truth in what you say here, but my brotherhood is made up of people of all races and languages and the work that Jesus assigned is being preached in every nation on earth. (Matthew 23:14) Nothing can stop it because it is God’s work. It has to be done before the final curtain drops on this evil world system.
God’s will is being accomplished and his purpose will be carried out...with us or without us. In the story of Noah, the message fell on deaf ears....to a large extent it is again in this violent and immoral world, just as Jesus said. (Matthew 24:37-39)
How often are things NOT the way they seem? I don’t have to shoehorn anything, anywhere. All the pieces of the puzzle fit together for me now. I have no holes in my belief system. I have all my questions answered......and I did not find God to be a monster......on the contrary, what he gave humans in the beginning was everything and more than they ever needed. This he has promised to restore.....and I believe him. I look forward to the future....if left in the hands on man, can you say the same?
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Yet in every situation, there is one right interpretation.
And everyone thinks that THEY have the right one, and there is no agreed-upon standard to sort it out.
it is obvious to me that he can choose whom to reveal the “right” interpretation to
And it is apparently not obvious to the rest of the billions of people on the planet. Aren't you special.
So if only selected people are chosen by him to actually "know" whatever it is they are supposed to know, there is no reason to study the Bible, (I'm assuming the Christian god here) or to proselytize to anyone. You should just go about your everyday life until he decides to choose your or not. In case of the Christian god, your fate was sealed before you were born.......He already knew if he was going to "choose" you.
It’s got nothing to do with anyone holding sway over God....it’s got more to do with God holding sway over those who love him, not with a big stick, but with the offer of life under the rulership of his kingdom.
You ignore the big stick of eternal punishment for a finite crime,,,,that you did not commit (original sin)
It is one of the meanings of the Hebrew word for “day”
Yes, the word "Yom". It is a word for time in general. the meaning in a given passage is to be figured out from the surrounding passages. Where in Genesis do you see anything that points to the word meaning anything other than a day? Why do the Jews rest on the seventh day of the week instead of every 7 thousand or every 7 billion years? They understood the day to be a 24 hour period, and their day of rest reflects this. Your interpretation has no more traction than any of the others.
Life cannot spring into existence spontaneously.....science knows this. What looks designed, usually is. Design requires intelligence.....
Science does not know this. Science is a methodology. What looks designed may be designed....but the appearance of design does not mean it has to be designed. How simple does something have to be to not be designed? Where is the threshold?
I have no holes in my belief system.
I am glad for you that you do not have any holes in your belief system if it is of value to you. I hope that someday, you will become as interested in knowledge as you are in belief.
God knows those who will make good citizens of his incoming Kingdom. He has a way of establishing who is, and who is not, worthy of his choosing. If we are trying to be that kind of person, God already knows it...if we are not even interested in becoming that sort of person, he knows that too.
Its not a case of being "special"...its a case of being what God wants us to be verses what we want to be. If our will conflicts with God's, guess whose will gets the prize? Why would we think that our will can overpower the will of God? Its a matter of knowing your place and being grateful that you have one.
When we are born, we are basically a blank canvas.....God does not pry into our individual futures to see what we will turn out to be....he leaves that to us. As you said, there are many factors that contribute to who and what we become as adults. But all have free will and basic personality traits.....how they develop is under our own control to a large extent. They usually manifest early in life. And no matter what has contributed to a misspent youth, we can change.....but only if we want to.
To be fair, God extends his invitation to all....its just that, especially in this day and age, not many are even interested in hearing his message, let alone acting on it. (Matthew 24:14) He leaves that up to us as well.
There is no big stick. Eternal punishment is simply eternal death...isn't that what atheists expect anyway?
There is no eternal torment....never was.
Genesis 2:4.....if you read my post, it condenses the whole of creation into a "day". There it is...an undetermined period of time. People are free to put whatever interpretation they like on scripture....but if God is not guiding them, they will never come to the right conclusions. The number seven in the Bible has symbolic meaning. Seven is used frequently in the Scriptures to signify completeness. At times it has reference to bringing a work toward completion. Or it can refer to the complete cycle of things as established or allowed by God.
Science knows that from its own experiments, life can only come from pre-existing life.....when has that not been the case?
How simple does something have to be to be designed? What about a mousetrap? If you have those few simple components and and mixed them up in a tumbler for a million years, would it ever put itself together in the right sequence to become a useful mousetrap? It takes an intelligent mind to even figure that out.
I balance knowledge with faith....I cannot accept things blindly, nor can I accept things that are illogical.
ToE to me is largely based on faith (not established facts) and is completely illogical. Nothing comes from nothing.....life comes from life....the Creator of life is God. Its not rocket science, is it?
Yes...
Might that be, because Jesus’ command (John 13:34-35) to ‘love their brothers’ is just too difficult when a professed Christian has to choose between supporting their government and loving the foreign brother whose country is fighting theirs?
Jesus said the world would hate His disciples...it’s easy to see how that situation would cause hatred....and no one wants to be hated.
So that command is watered down, if not outright ignored.
Genuinely loving your fellow Christians, and preaching (Matthew 28:19-20), are the 2 most disregarded.
Skwim
Veteran Member
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I'm from Joisey. Are you from Joisey?
I'm not really. I just enjoyed saying so, because...well Joe Piscopo and Saturday Night Live.
So, prior to that time, a virgin was a girl that could outrun her family as well as the neighbors.From the Blue Letter Bible:
And why doesn't it "violate the commands God later gave in the Book of Leviticus which condemned these relationships." Because that would be problematic, so we just pretend it doesn't."It seems then that Cain, or one of his brothers, must have married a sister. If the entire human race came from an original pair then this was unavoidable. Does this not present us with the problem of incest? The answer is no. These early intermarriages between brothers and sisters does not violate the commands God later gave in the Book of Leviticus which condemned these relationships."
source
Of course this means that during all those years, some 3,500 of them, from the time of A&E to the writing of Leviticus 538-332 BCE (ave.= 430 BCE), people were also freely doing other things that god later decreed to be no-nos in Leviticus. . . . . "Ah, those were the good years. Ay, Martha?"
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Hooked on phonics?
That is an interesting question and one that had occurred to me at a young age. Along with where all the people in the Land of Nod came from.
Questions that did not endear me to the adults I queried on the subject. I have yet to hear an answer I feel is satisfactsisters.
Call me culturally close-minded, but the idea of setting up house with one my sisters never ever entered my thinking. And me being from the Ozarks too. What can I say, my family was radically more progressive than the neighbors in that regard.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Um... Care to share the joke?
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You are sharing it.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Yes, your apologetics that blithely makes up incidents supposedly mentioned in Genesis 1.
"Adam met the land animals - including the creepy crawly. He had a long time to explore and enjoy nature. While Adam was doing that, God was forming, new creatures, and bringing them to Adam.
Of course not because they don't fit together. In other words, you're telling the reader not to pay any attention to the lurking green monster standing over there in the corner. Just ignore the horrific contradiction between the order of events in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. and go on about your life.
The order of Genesis 1
█
█
The order of Genesis 2
█
█
Genesis 1:
20 Let the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth
21 God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth
25 God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
While both a sad attempt and a humorous one. I prefer to regard it as humorous.
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nPeace
Veteran Member
Oooookay then. Thanks.Yes, your apologetics that blithely makes up incidents supposedly mentioned in Genesis 1.
"Adam met the land animals - including the creepy crawly. He had a long time to explore and enjoy nature. While Adam was doing that, God was forming, new creatures, and bringing them to Adam.
Of course not because they don't fit together. In other words, you're telling the reader not to pay any attention to the lurking green monster standing over there in the corner. Just ignore the horrific contradiction between the order of events in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. and go on about your life.
The order of Genesis 1
█
█
The order of Genesis 2
█
█
Genesis 1:
20 Let the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth
21 God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth
25 God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 2:
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
While both a sad attempt and a humorous one. I prefer to regard it as humorous.
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Have a belly full. I won't join you.
101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC, to all.
Genesis chapter 2 is a detailed account of chapter 1. yes, man was made before the sea creatures or any of the Land creatures. respectively, man on or before day 3. sea creatures, and some from the land, day 5, and all land based animals day 6.
if one never read chapter 2, one will never comprehend chapter 1 properly
PICJAG.
Genesis chapter 2 is a detailed account of chapter 1. yes, man was made before the sea creatures or any of the Land creatures. respectively, man on or before day 3. sea creatures, and some from the land, day 5, and all land based animals day 6.
if one never read chapter 2, one will never comprehend chapter 1 properly
PICJAG.