Fruit of the tree

[look3467]

At what age does a person eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?
And at what point after that does a person become responsible for their own action?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Tumah]

This doesn't seem like a philosophical question as much as a Christian DIR question.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

At what age does a person eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?
And at what point after that does a person become responsible for their own action?

Blessings, AJ

The answer to both is "never".

 

[Amechania]

Catholic Church says age seven -- Age of Discretion.

 

[BSM1]

At what age does a person eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge?
And at what point after that does a person become responsible for their own action?

Not to dodge your question but it's the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And what is the knowledge of good and evil? The knowledge is that there is no difference between good and evil. Good and evil are mainly judgement calls decide individually or as a group. When A&E ate the fruit their eyes were opened to this fact. Once that happened A&E (as all mankind since) had to claim responsibility for their choices and actions. Up too that point they were blissfully ignorant; much like children who do not understand consequences of actions. So to respond to your question, I would guess it would depend on the child.

 

[look3467]

This doesn't seem like a philosophical question as much as a Christian DIR question.

Well, you see, there are those who claim God does not exist, therefore, there are no dictates from God as to our moral beginnings.

That morality was a progressive evolution as was the human being.

In either case... the question is, at what point does a person acquire its independence due to ingestion of knowledge to become a separate entity?

Yes, a Christian philosophical point, but both religious and non religious people claiming the same basis for independence.

I mean a child has to at some point exercise its independence due to knowledge gathered whether it be religious or not......that is a fact of life.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Willamena]

In either case... the question is, at what point does a person acquire its independence due to ingestion of knowledge to become a separate entity?

In the first few months after birth, I imagine. It's not a philosophy question, but one about development of the brain.

 

[Tumah]

Well, you see, there are those who claim God does not exist, therefore, there are no dictates from God as to our moral beginnings.

That morality was a progressive evolution as was the human being.

In either case... the question is, at what point does a person acquire its independence due to ingestion of knowledge to become a separate entity?

Yes, a Christian philosophical point, but both religious and non religious people claiming the same basis for independence.

I mean a child has to at some point exercise its independence due to knowledge gathered whether it be religious or not......that is a fact of life.

Blessings, AJ

Maybe you could have framed your question in a way devoid of [your] religious theology, so that more people can relate to the question on its own terms, rather than through your theology.

 

[look3467]

In the first few months after birth, I imagine. It's not a philosophy question, but one about development of the brain.

You think that a few months after birth a child is able to make independent decisions? I mean what possible knowledge could that child gather....being so infant?

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

Maybe you could have framed your question in a way devoid of [your] religious theology, so that more people can relate to the question on its own terms, rather than through your theology.

You see, there lies the problem. Just as you stated ..." in a way devoid of [your] religious theology"...

I would have to surrender to another's philosophical view as the only view in order to meet your criteria of my question.

I am posing the question to engage both sides, religious and none religious philosophical views concerning a matter that is a reality to both sides.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Willamena]

You think that a few months after birth a child is able to make independent decisions? I mean what possible knowledge could that child gather....being so infant?

Blessings, AJ

Well, no. Was the question about decisions? My bad.

 

[Tumah]

You see, there lies the problem. Just as you stated ..." in a way devoid of [your] religious theology"...

I would have to surrender to another's philosophical view as the only view in order to meet your criteria of my question.

I am posing the question to engage both sides, religious and none religious philosophical views concerning a matter that is a reality to both sides.

Blessings, AJ

Well, theoretically, you could just say, "At what age do you think a child become self-aware or develop the critical thinking skill as to make him responsible for his actions."

This way you can include both your own theology and other's theologies and philosophies in the same question, without resorting to Christian terminology.

To me personally, you came across as saying, "Christians are right in terms of how a child gets his knowledge. Now based on this at what age do you think..."

That's a fine question for the Christian DIR, but not so much for here.

 

[look3467]

And what is the knowledge of good and evil?>>>BSM1

Judgment. A persons ability to make a judgment between what is good and what is not, based on knowledge gained, be it in a religious or non-religious environment.



Blessings, AJ

 

[Amechania]

Judgment. A persons ability to make a judgment between what is good and what is not, based on knowledge gained, be it in a religious or non-religious environment.



Blessings, AJ

Are you asking about moral responsibility? My daughter knows good from bad in the context of her own needs, but I would hesitate to say she has yet developed a sense of right to which she could be held accountable.

 

[BSM1]

[

quote=look3467;3749756]Judgment. A persons ability to make a judgment between what is good and what is not, based on knowledge gained, be it in a religious or non-religious environment.

Yeah, that's the ticket :yes:.


Blessings, AJ[/quote]

 

[look3467]

Well, theoretically, you could just say, "At what age do you think a child become self-aware or develop the critical thinking skill as to make him responsible for his actions.">>>Tumah

I understand your issue with my question. I did not mention the word Christian in my OP.

The words "Tree of Knowledge" denotes a Christian's perspective but not necessarily Christian, for it is found in the first book of the bible.

6 And when the isha saw that HaEtz was tov for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and HaEtz to be desired to make one have seichel,

At what point did that happen? At what age? Definitely, not at birth, for how can a newborn desire such worldly things?

For a newborn, food is not a desire but a necessity right?

So, again, for a non-religious answer, when does a child's judgment qualify for independence,(Set apart) as a separate entity?

My question is a fundamental truth that has different philosophical views of which I am looking for justification of its origin.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Tumah]

I understand your issue with my question. I did not mention the word Christian in my OP.

The words "Tree of Knowledge" denotes a Christian's perspective but not necessarily Christian, for it is found in the first book of the bible.

6 And when the isha saw that HaEtz was tov for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and HaEtz to be desired to make one have seichel,

At what point did that happen? At what age? Definitely, not at birth, for how can a newborn desire such worldly things?

For a newborn, food is not a desire but a necessity right?

So, again, for a non-religious answer, when does a child's judgment qualify for independence,(Set apart) as a separate entity?

My question is a fundamental truth that has different philosophical views of which I am looking for justification of its origin.

Blessings, AJ

I understand the question. But not everyone believes in the Bible, so framing things within that framework doesn't work for everyone.

Also, although you quoted from the "Orthodox Jewish Bible", in deference to me (and I appreciate that), you should know that that Bible is actually a Christian Evengelical Bible disguising itself as Jewish in order to appeal to uneducated Jews.

It is not the Bible of Orthodox Jews.

 

[look3467]

Are you asking about moral responsibility? My daughter knows good from bad in the context of her own needs, but I would hesitate to say she has yet developed a sense of right to which she could be held accountable.

Well, every child has to at some point make judgement's that sets them apart from their parents.

At that point...a child becomes accountable for its own desires, what it likes, dislikes, moral or otherwise. Choosing between green beans or ice cream is not a moral issue. So there is no good or evil judgment in that case.

But....a judgement between what good and right from what is bad and evil has as its core a moral element.

That is what set us apart. When our eyes are opened to that, denotes us as gods of our own being.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

I understand the question. But not everyone believes in the Bible, so framing things within that framework doesn't work for everyone.

Also, although you quoted from the "Orthodox Jewish Bible", in deference to me (and I appreciate that), you should know that that Bible is actually a Christian Evengelical Bible disguising itself as Jewish in order to appeal to uneducated Jews.

It is not the Bible of Orthodox Jews.

OK...what is your take then of the words "Tree of knowledge"? Can you quote me your version of it?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Tumah]

OK...what is your take then of the words "Tree of knowledge"? Can you quote me your version of it?

Blessings, AJ

I think my take of the tree of knowledge is outside the bounds of this thread and this directory.

My version says:
ותרא האשה כי טוב העץ למאכל וכי תאוה הוא לעינים ונחמד העץ להשכיל