Fulfilling the Law

[Pegg]

Here you go.

Deuteronomy 34

10. And there was no other prophet who arose in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face,

11. as manifested by all the signs and wonders, which the Lord had sent him to perform in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and all his servants, and to all his land,

12. and all the strong hand, and all the great awe, which Moses performed before the eyes of all Israel.

Deuteronomy was written in the 15th century BCE. Up until that time it was written, there had not be a prophet like Moses who knew God face to face.

Yet Moses himself wrote that another prophet would rise and would be like him.
Obviously moses was speaking of a future time and not the time that he himself was writing in.

 

[Dinner123]

Dear Dinner,
The "New Covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31 is a covenant between God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah. The sign of its completion is that they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, "Know the Lord". This has not happened. The outpouring of the Spirit of God proceeds the "day of the Lord" (Joel 2:28-32), and in those days the nations will be gathered for judgment, and the restoration of the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem will proceed.

While the nations are now gathered around Jerusalem, Judah's or Jerusalem's fortunes have not been completely fulfilled, nor has the judgment of the nations been fulfilled.

The covenant that is to be put in their hearts (Jer 31:32), is now written on stone, and is located in the ark of the covenant, and it is the 10 Commandments. To the present and future grieve of 2 billion "Christians", it is not the false gospel of Grace, espoused by the self professed apostle and prophet Paul.

Yes the new Covenant is for Judah and Israel, but in no way excludes Gentiles here. It does not say that it is not to the Gentiles also. In Isaiah 42:8; Jesus is the new Covenant and is for a light for the Gentiles. So, the new Covenant is a light for the Gentiles. And in Psalm 2:8, God says unto the Messiah the Son of God: "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance," So the new Covenant is to the Jews first, but also to the Gentiles.

It says the new Covenant is not according to the old Covenant. So, it cannot be the same Law, the same Covenant on the stones in the ark. Jesus died unto the Letter; even becoming accursed according to the written Law. According to it, everyone who hangs on a tree is accursed of God. But, it is the holy Spirit that raised Him back to life. So, the Law in the heart is basically the holy Spirit. Not the OLDNESS of the ritual worship; which were meant to teach people of spiritual things.

And, is it not so? God looking on the Israelites in the wilderness and seeing that their hearts even then were not fully set right with Him, He says in Deuteronomy 5:29 “O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!” Is this not what Jesus came to do for us? To bring us the new Covenant and to put the the rule of God in the hearts of the people instead of just on paper? For He says of the religious Jews in His day “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.” So, though they strove to obey the Law, they had need of a change of heart. And the Messiah saw their hearts, as God always sees the heart and doesn't regard the outward appearance.

But, what does Jesus say? "Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem,(ritual worship done at Jerusalem according to commandment of the Law) worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

So, the LORD seeks for a people that will worship Him from their heart instead of in the oldness of the written Letter. This is a gift of heaven, first to the Jews but also to the Gentiles. The promise is unto all children of Israel first.

Whoever has the holy Spirit does not need to be taught to know the Lord, because He is indwelling them and teaches them to know Him. That verse is not waiting to be fulfilled, but fulfilled now for whoever receives the gift of the holy Spirit. If anyone wants to receive Him; they can. They should read Acts chapter 2. God still does what He did then. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever. I'm not saying they'll know everything, or that they won't need instruction at all. They do, but no one has to teach them specifically "know the Lord" if they are filled with his Spirit. God will surely teach them. So, we all need the holy Spirit if we don't have it. The righteousness of the Law is fulfilled by submission to the Spirit and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes the new Covenant is for Judah and Israel, but in no way excludes Gentiles here. It does not say that it is not to the Gentiles also. In Isaiah 42:8; Jesus is the new Covenant and is for a light for the Gentiles. So, the new Covenant is a light for the Gentiles. And in Psalm 2:8, God says unto the Messiah the Son of God: "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance," So the new Covenant is to the Jews first, but also to the Gentiles.
.

Dear Dinner,
Psalm 2:8-12, Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Thy inheritance, and the very ends of the earth as Thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron, Thou shall shatter them like earthen ware... Worship the Lord with reverence (fear), and rejoice with trembling, Do homage to the Son, lest He become angry, and you perish in the way. For His wrath may soon be kindled."

Joel 2:32 -Joel 3-2,"....I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;...display wonders in the sky..moon into blood,....Before the awesome day of the Lord...There will be those who escape..in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the volley of Judgments, Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel."
Basically, you will have "the great tribulation", then signs in the heavens, then the "Day of the Lord" , then the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem, and then the judgment of the nations. Those foreigners, who want to attach themselves to the Lord will have to follow instructions given through Isaiah 56:6," Also the foreigners who joint themselves to the Lord, to minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, To be His servants, every one who keeps fromprofaning the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenant; Even those I will bring to My holy Mountain"

Yeshua provide a "way", which one can follow, or they can follow the "shepherds of no understanding" (Isaiah 56;11), and wind up coming up against the wrath of the Lord.(Ps 2:12

Ze 14:16," Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
"[/COLOR]

There will be survivors of both "Tribulation" and the "Day of the Lord", but they will hoe the line. The "Day of the Lord" will be rough, because the description of Ze 14:12, is an exact copy of a description taken from observers at Hiroshima.

 

[CMike]

Deuteronomy was written in the 15th century BCE. Up until that time it was written, there had not be a prophet like Moses who knew God face to face.

Yet Moses himself wrote that another prophet would rise and would be like him.
Obviously moses was speaking of a future time and not the time that he himself was writing in.

That is correct.

There will be other prophets, and the jews were supposed to listen to those prophets.

However, Moses will always be the greatest prophet of all time.

 

[Dinner123]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]As for the new Covenant of Jer. 31. If you really think the holy Spirit isn't being given yet; then maybe these verses will change your mind. [/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Jesus claimed to give the holy Spirit to those who believe in Him:[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]John 7:37-39[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)[/FONT]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]He promised to send them the holy Spirit the Comforter:[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]John 14:16-20[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.[/FONT]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Again, He promises the Comforter, and says the holy Spirit will “teach you all things” As in what was spoken of in Jeremiah 31.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]John 14:23-28[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]he shall teach you all things[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.[/FONT]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]He breathed on them to receive the holy Spirit. Which ensured they would. But they could not actually receive it until He ascended as we will see.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]John 20:22[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:[/FONT]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]If He does not leave the world, then He remains the Light of the world and the holy Spirit is not going to poured out. But, He assures them that His going away is a good thing, because then He'll send the holy Spirit when He is ascended.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Also, again we see the holy Spirit is a teacher, a guide, like it says in Jer. 31. Jesus is really, definitely speaking of the new Covenant outpouring and not a different outpouring.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]John 9:5[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]John 16:7-13[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you;[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[/FONT]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]So, He orders them to wait at Jerusalem until they receive it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Luke 24:49[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Acts 1:4-5 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.[/FONT]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Which they do, and they wait and they seek the Lord until they received it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Acts 2:1-4 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.[/FONT]

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]And, the Bible teaches that this gift is for us today. Both Jews first and gentiles also. Anyone can have it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.[/FONT]

 

[Dinner123]

Dear Dinner,
Psalm 2:8-12, Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Thy inheritance, and the very ends of the earth as Thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron, Thou shall shatter them like earthen ware... Worship the Lord with reverence (fear), and rejoice with trembling, Do homage to the Son, lest He become angry, and you perish in the way. For His wrath may soon be kindled."

Joel 2:32 -Joel 3-2,"....I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;...display wonders in the sky..moon into blood,....Before the awesome day of the Lord...There will be those who escape..in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the volley of Judgments, Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel."
Basically, you will have "the great tribulation", then signs in the heavens, then the "Day of the Lord" , then the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem, and then the judgment of the nations. Those foreigners, who want to attach themselves to the Lord will have to follow instructions given through Isaiah 56:6," Also the foreigners who joint themselves to the Lord, to minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, To be His servants, every one who keeps fromprofaning the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenant; Even those I will bring to My holy Mountain"

Yeshua provide a "way", which one can follow, or they can follow the "shepherds of no understanding" (Isaiah 56;11), and wind up coming up against the wrath of the Lord.(Ps 2:12

Ze 14:16," Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
"[/COLOR]

There will be survivors of both "Tribulation" and the "Day of the Lord", but they will hoe the line. The "Day of the Lord" will be rough, because the description of Ze 14:12, is an exact copy of a description taken from observers at Hiroshima.

I want to answer this specifically

 

[Pegg]

That is correct.

There will be other prophets, and the jews were supposed to listen to those prophets.

However, Moses will always be the greatest prophet of all time.

perhaps this is why Jeremiahs prophecy of a new covenant is given no consideration....


Or Daniels prophecy regarding the arrival and death of the messiah and his subsequent resurrection to heavenly life.

 

[Tumah]

perhaps this is why Jeremiahs prophecy of a new covenant is given no consideration....

Come and see:

Jeremiah 31:32
כי זאת הברית אשר אכרת את בית ישראל אחרי הימים ההם נאם ה
Because this is the covenant which I will cut the House of Israel after those days declares G-d

נתתי = gave + first person singular perfective = I gave
את = (used to indicate a direct object, no English parallel)
תורתי = Torah + first person singular possesive suffix = my Torah
בקרבם = in midst + third person plural possesive suffix = in their midst
ועל = and on
לבם = hearts + third person plural posseive suffix = their hearts
אכתבנה = first person singular imperfective prefix + write + third person singular feminine suffix = I will write it (lit. her because Torah is a feminine word)

והייתי להם לאלקים והמה יהיו לי לעם
And I will be to them for a G-d and they will be to me for a nation.

In other words, the new covenant is going to be that the Torah which G-d had already given us in our midst, will then become part of our fabric, written on our hearts. For that reason, no man will need to teach his friend about G-d. Not because it will all be thrown out the door.

There will be no change to the Law itself. Only, the same Law that is now external to us, will become internal. Perhaps this is why Jeremiah's prophecy had to be reworded for the Christian Bible.

 

[dantech]

perhaps this is why Jeremiahs prophecy of a new covenant is given no consideration....


Or Daniels prophecy regarding the arrival and death of the messiah and his subsequent resurrection to heavenly life.

Can't wait to see which translations or interpretations you will use to *sigh* prove your point *sigh*

 

[2ndpillar]

Dinner wrote:
As for the new Covenant of Jer. 31. If you really think the holy Spirit isn't being given yet; then maybe these verses will change your mind.
Jesus claimed to give the holy Spirit to those who believe in Him:


Dear Dinner,
Jeremiah 31:31 is for the house of Judah and the House of Israel. The sign of the fulfillment of Jer 31 is than no one will have to teach one another to the "Know the Lord". That has not happened. If you don't believe me, start reading some of the post on this forum. Judah still has Rabbis (teachers). As for the Gentiles, that is the term meaning "nations". The nations are the ones being brought into judgment after the "awesome Day of the Lord" (Joel 2:28-32)

As for the "awesome Day of the Lord" with respect to Joel 2:28-32, "I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;....and moon into blood... and there will be those who escape....When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.. and gather the all the nations...and enter into judgment with them"
This hasn't been completed. The fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem haven't been fully restored. Ze 14:14," and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold silver and garments in great abundance."

Daniel 7:27, Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him."[/

This hasn't happened yet. The present kingdoms on earth are transient.B]

 

[Dinner123]

Dinner wrote:
As for the new Covenant of Jer. 31. If you really think the holy Spirit isn't being given yet; then maybe these verses will change your mind.
Jesus claimed to give the holy Spirit to those who believe in Him:


Dear Dinner,
Jeremiah 31:31 is for the house of Judah and the House of Israel. The sign of the fulfillment of Jer 31 is than no one will have to teach one another to the "Know the Lord". That has not happened. If you don't believe me, start reading some of the post on this forum. Judah still has Rabbis (teachers). As for the Gentiles, that is the term meaning "nations". The nations are the ones being brought into judgment after the "awesome Day of the Lord" (Joel 2:28-32)

As for the "awesome Day of the Lord" with respect to Joel 2:28-32, "I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;....and moon into blood... and there will be those who escape....When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem.. and gather the all the nations...and enter into judgment with them"
This hasn't been completed. The fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem haven't been fully restored. Ze 14:14," and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold silver and garments in great abundance."

Daniel 7:27, Then the sovereignty, the dominion, and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him."[/

This hasn't happened yet. The present kingdoms on earth are transient.B]

Okay, first of all, God gives Covenants, but that doesn't mean we have to obey them. That's up to us. So, if any do not obey the Covenant then that is their prerogative. It's no different in that regard as the old Covenant, notice how many could have accepted the Mosaic Covenant but never did. Now is no different, you don't have to obey the new Covenant but we really ought to.

To be taught of the holy Spirit you must receive the holy Spirit. If these Rabbis you speak of don't have the holy Spirit how can He teach them? So, they need the holy Spirit. Then it will teach them and guide them into all truth as Jesus said it would and promised them He would and they received it on the day of Pentecost.

[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, [/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]he shall teach you all things[/FONT][FONT=Liberation Serif, serif], and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.[/FONT]"


"[FONT=Liberation Serif, serif]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:[/FONT]"


Isn't Jesus speaking of the fulfillment of Jer 31:31??

Jesus even said not to be called Rabbi, because it is the Spirit of Christ that is our true Rabbi.

Matthew 23:8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

 

[Dinner123]

Dear Dinner,
Psalm 2:8-12, Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Thy inheritance, and the very ends of the earth as Thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron, Thou shall shatter them like earthen ware... Worship the Lord with reverence (fear), and rejoice with trembling, Do homage to the Son, lest He become angry, and you perish in the way. For His wrath may soon be kindled."

Joel 2:32 -Joel 3-2,"....I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;...display ownders in the sky..moon into blood,....Before the awesome day of the Lord...There will be those who escape..in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all the nations, and bring them down to the volley of Judgments, Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel."
Basically, you will have "the great tribulation", then signs in the heavens, then the "Day of the Lord" , then the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem, and then the judgment of the nations. Those foreigners, who want to attach themselves to the Lord will have to follow instructions given through Isaiah 56:6," Also the foreigners who joint themselves to the Lord, to minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord, To be His servants, every one who keeps fromprofaning the Sabbath, and holds fast My covenant; Even those I will bring to My holy Mountain"

Yeshua provide a "way", which one can follow, or they can follow the "shepherds of no understanding" (Isaiah 56;11), and wind up coming up against the wrath of the Lord.(Ps 2:12

Ze 14:16," Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
"[/COLOR]

There will be survivors of both "Tribulation" and the "Day of the Lord", but they will hoe the line. The "Day of the Lord" will be rough, because the description of Ze 14:12, is an exact copy of a description taken from observers at Hiroshima.

Isaiah 56:6 in context is speaking of a time before the appearing of Jesus(Yeshua) who is mentioned in verse 56:1 as not yet having arrived, but He is “near to come”. So, while the Law was in place the Gentiles could be saved by joining Israel. That is what it is talking about.
Isaiah 56:1 Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation(yshuw`ah = Jesus) is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Zech 14:16-17 cannot be speaking of the plan of salvation that is now in place from God, which is the new Covenant, because as Jesus said the time comes when they will not have to worship at Jerusalem, but in Spirit and in truth. (John chapter 4) He spoke of the new Covenant that is through the blood of Jesus (see Matt. 26:28) So, we cannot tell exactly what will happen in the millennial reign (book of Revelation) when Christ sets up His throne on the earth, but Zech 14:16-17 is clearly referring to the future, rather than the present.

Are you saying that we must all go to Jerusalem once a year or we're lost? Do you take that journey once a year? This verse is either for the present or the future; not both. That being said, if you believe in this holy day, that's fine you ought to keep it. I mean it's holy to you. As for me, I know I am part of what the feast of booths always talked about. These temporal bodies are our booths that we dwell in until we receive permanent heavenly bodies and our sojourn in this life is our wanderings in the wilderness.

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye(she isn't even Jewish, but Samaritan) shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.” (John 4:21)

Zechariah 14:16-17 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

Joel covers more than just the day of the Lord, but it covers the “last days” which is from the time of Christ until now and continues on. This is a long time to be the “last” days. But, God sees not as we do, but a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day to Him. (Hebrews 1:2, Acts 2:17)

 

[2ndpillar]

Dinner wrote:
Okay, first of all, God gives Covenants, but that doesn't mean we have to obey them. That's up to us. So, if any do not obey the Covenant then that is their prerogative. It's no different in that regard as the old Covenant, notice how many could have accepted the Mosaic Covenant but never did. Now is no different, you don't have to obey the new Covenant but we really ought to.

You have to understand that to be taught of the holy Spirit you must receive the holy Spirit. If these Rabbis you speak of don't have the holy Spirit how can He teach them? So, they need the holy Spirit. Then it will teach them and guide them into all truth as Jesus said it would and promised them He would and they received it on the day of Pentecost.

Dear dinner,
Jeremiah 31:34, "for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," This is to say that all the house of Israel and the house of Judah will "Know the Lord". and not those that choose to. The remnant will have been through the cleansing fire of the "Day of the Lord" and there will be none left who will have made your proposed non "acceptance".

When "Christian" say they have received the "Holy Spirit", there will be actions they do that will determine whether this is true or not. And indeed, if they had that Spirit, they would not need popes, bishops, clergy, or teachers, for they would already have all of the above. As for the teachings of the Pauline based church, Paul was simply a tare, and a false prophet as disclosed in Mt 7, and Mt 13. Yeshua is the "Word" made flesh, not the word of Paul made flesh. Paul is simply the fulfillment of Ze 11, and Mt 7 & Mt 13.

 

[Dinner123]

Dear dinner,
Jeremiah 31:34, "for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,"

There is a spiritual Israel and a physical Israel. these are not always synonymous, but they overlap. As God told Elijah, He had reserved 7000 that did not bend the knee to baal.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And Jesus said, if you are Abraham's children, you'll do His works. So, Jesus clearly spoke of a spiritual seed of Abraham that walk in the steps of Abraham.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

I said before in this thread that God sought a spiritual people that would worship in Spirit and in truth.

 

[2ndpillar]

There is a spiritual Israel and a physical Israel. these are not always synonymous, but they overlap. As God told Elijah, He had reserved 7000 that did not bend the knee to baal.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

And Jesus said, if you are Abraham's children, you'll do His works. So, Jesus clearly spoke of a spiritual seed of Abraham that walk in the steps of Abraham.

John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

I said before in this thread that God sought a spiritual people that would worship in Spirit and in truth.

[B]Dear dinner,
The new covenant of Jeremiah was made with the house of Israel AND the house of Judah. The "Christians" have the misapprehension that they are the children of Abraham by NOT doing the works of Abraham. Abraham actually followed the commandments given to him by God. The "Christians" do NOT do the works of Abraham, nor do they feel that they have to keep the Commandments. God gives the foreigners a path to join themselves to the Lord in Isaiah 56:6, but they have chosen to follow the staff "Favor", a shepherd chosen by God, to pasture the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Ze 11:7), and "break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples". The shepherds in Ze 11 were all annihilated in one month (generation) "for my soul was impatient with them,". Included among these shepherds was Judas Iscariot.(Ze 11:13,Mt 27:9-10) It was not a good thing to be one of these 3 shepherds, but the "Christian" church follows 2 of them. The "Christian" church does not have the "LAW" written on their hearts, but they do have the "mark" of the beast, and they do follow the beast's laws and traditions. [/B]

 

[Dinner123]

[B]Dear dinner,
The new covenant of Jeremiah was made with the house of Israel AND the house of Judah. The "Christians" have the misapprehension that they are the children of Abraham by NOT doing the works of Abraham. Abraham actually followed the commandments given to him by God. The "Christians" do NOT do the works of Abraham, nor do they feel that they have to keep the Commandments.

But, where in this passage does it say it is inclusive of every Jew alive? It is the remnant as there has ever been, that will receive the new Covenant because they have eyes to see and ears to hear. So, God knows those that are truly His sheep. As Jesus said to some of the most religious of His day, You are not my sheep, if you were my sheep you would hear my voice.

Obedience is the fruit of true faith. I agree with that. Except we must obey the new Covenant and it is not lawless but strait is the gate and narrow is the way and few find it. As for people who call themselves Christians that is a very broadly used word in modern times. Nearly everyone calls themselves Christians from Mennonites unto Catholics and everything else. So, I can't presume to speak for all "Christians" as they hold a wide variety of beliefs and opinions. Let us talk of truth and God.

God gives the foreigners a path to join themselves to the Lord in Isaiah 56:6, but they have chosen to follow the staff "Favor", a shepherd chosen by God, to pasture the "flock doomed to slaughter" (Ze 11:7), and "break my covenant which I had made with all the peoples". The shepherds in Ze 11 were all annihilated in one month (generation) "for my soul was impatient with them,". Included among these shepherds was Judas Iscariot.(Ze 11:13,Mt 27:9-10) It was not a good thing to be one of these 3 shepherds, but the "Christian" church follows 2 of them. The "Christian" church does not have the "LAW" written on their hearts, but they do have the "mark" of the beast, and they do follow the beast's laws and traditions. [/b]

Please read what I already said about Isa. 56:6; you may have missed my post. In Isa. 56:1 we find that Jesus is "near to come" but not yet arrived. So in context, Isa. 56:6 is addressed to people before the appearance of the Messiah. I also made other points you should see.

Jesus taught, God seeks a spiritual people that will worship in Spirit and in truth, instead of the oldness of the Letter which commands to worship at the place God would choose out of the tribes to worship there: old Jerusalem. So, this spiritual people of God is not a people that trusts in earthly cities, but a heavenly city the new Jerusalem that always abides in the Light of God that shines from Jesus Christ. He even said of old Jerusalem your house is left unto you desolate. that is the temple that was left desolate, the veil was torn, the way into the holiest place now accessible through Jesus, and the temple that God builds without hands is now ready to built upon Jesus the cornerstone and the firm foundation. So for those who put their faith in this or that earthly city; seek that city that is from above first; the new Jerusalem that descends down out of heaven from God.

And if you are someone that doesn't have the holy Spirit as they did receive Him in the book of Acts then please seek this gift. Because when you receive, you'll know He teaches you of Himself and you'll learn of Him. When I received the holy Spirit, I felt the greatest love for everyone I saw and I had joy and peace right away. No one taught me these things. These are the fruits of the Spirit and if we have these from the holy Spirit then we know God and no one needs to teach us, because God is love. This from someone who had never felt true love before for anyone. Whatever I felt before, it didn't compare to the love of God in me. Not that I am now perfect in love, but I believe God introduced Himself to me.

 

[2ndpillar]

Dinner wrote:
But, where in this passage does it say it is inclusive of every Jew alive? It is the remnant as there has ever been, that will receive the new Covenant because they have eyes to see and ears to hear. So, God knows those that are truly His sheep. As Jesus said to some of the most religious of His day, You are not my sheep, if you were my sheep you would hear my voice

Dear Dinner,
Jeremiah 31:32 apparently hasn't happen for Gentile or Jew. Using a population ratio, a rough estimate would put the number of "Christian" teachers to number the number of Rabbi's at 30 to 1. Everyone is teaching his neighbor "Know the Lord".

Jeremiah 31:32 happens just prior to the "Day of the Lord" (Joel 2:29 - Joel 3:2), at the time the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem will be restored, and the nations judged. Jer 31 has nothing to do with "My covenant" becoming obsolete.

As to who are the sheep , that is determined by individual actions, not to some adherence to traditions set by men. (Mt 25:31-46)

 

[Harmonious]

The law of Moses had to end with the coming of the Messiah since the Messiah is to be both king and high priest which is impossible under the law of Moses

No. The Priesthood will still be taken care of by Cohanim, sons of Aaron. The Messiah will come from the family of David. They are from different tribes entirely.

 

[Hawkins]

No. The Priesthood will still be taken care of by Cohanim, sons of Aaron. The Messiah will come from the family of David. They are from different tribes entirely.

Show the verse from Scripture that a high priest must be from Aaron.

Jesus is the High Priest in accordance to the following,

Psalm 110:1,4 (NIV)
The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”

 

[Hawkins]

The purpose of Law (of a covenant) is to identify the righteous from the wicked. However, this effect will be lost when nearly all of humans under a covenant failed to keep the Law.

A covenant is a combination of Law and Grace applying to a scope of humans. The OT is more about how Mosaic Law was made obvious to a cope of humans called the Jews.

Genesis 17:14 (NIV)
Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.

The scope of humans (the Jews) only applies to those who abide by the Mosaic Law. So if a Jew by bloodline broke the covenant, he may no longer be a Jew.


When most Jews are unable to keep the Law to God's specified standard for the covenant to be valid, then there's no Jews are still under the covenant. It thus becomes a covenant covering no humans (with most of the Jews being cut off due to the breaking of the covenant).

Jesus' coming is to legally correct the situation such that the covenant with its contents (Law and Faith) will be used again to identify the righteous from the wicked.