Fundamentalists and Children

[Josh5v]

This question is directed to those who believe in a literal Hell. A Hell that consists of damnation, eternal torture and other unpleasant situations.

While I do not share this particularly belief, I was wondering how someone who believed this could bring a child into the world. Because no matter how well you perform as a parent, your child has the right to choose his belief system. If there is even a small chance he will choose the wrong belief system then you as his parent bears the responsibility of creating a human being that will spend his eternal afterlife in a horrible place. I don't think I could live with this fact.

For example, how does a Christian fundamentalist whose child chooses not to accept Christ as their Savior and then dies of a drug overdose live with the fact their child, their creation, will spent an eternity in hell?

I am just curious.

 

[Dunemeister]

I'm not a fundamentalist, but I do believe in hell (more or less but not precisely the classic view). In all things, we simply have to trust in the wisdom and mercy of God. God does not judge us by some abstract standard of behaviour or belief, although Christians do believe we are judged by our works (deeds). God alone is aware of any mitigating circumstances about the individual or culture than eventuated in what we call the person's bad behavior. Besides, God will not ignore the prayers and tears of a faithful parent.

Roman Catholics also have the benefit of believing that they can pray FOR the dead. And thus for Roman Catholics, even the death of a person does not represent the end of hope. Although I'm Protestant, I believe this, too.

 

[Man of Faith]

It is rare that a child of an active church going Bible believing Christian doesn't accept Jesus at a young age. I don't know of any but I am sure it happens. While they are alive there is always hope so the Christian parents hang onto that I am sure.

 

[Josh5v]

But how could they take the chance, just imagine spending an eternity suffering? Even if only a very small percentage go astray, it would still be horrible to know that a person you consciously chose to create will spend an eternity suffering.

 

[Dunemeister]

But how could they take the chance, just imagine spending an eternity suffering? Even if only a very small percentage go astray, it would still be horrible to know that a person you consciously chose to create will spend an eternity suffering.

How could we not take the chance? The other side of it is an eternity of unimaginable joy, love, peace, etc. It sounds as if you only do things if there's no chance of a bad outcome. If that's so, you will take few if any risks and have pretty much a meaningless life. Christians are (ahem...should be) motivated by the wisdom, mercy, power, and faithfulness of God. It's when we are in full view of such things that having kids makes sense. Have kids, raise them well, pray for them CONSTANTLY, and trust God. All will be well.

 

[Josh5v]

I agree that we all take many chances just in getting up out of bed in the morning. But most people are careful in taking chances, they go for the most rewards with the fewest risks.

But taking the risk in creating a human being (mostly because of your narcissistic needs or maybe biological programming) to procreate while believing there is possibility this new person may spend eternity in Hell, it seems to me you are taking a huge risk.

BTW, I believe in God who is both Loving and Just, I don't believe that the Form of Justice would include eternal suffering for anyone. (This is another argument.)

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

While I do not share this particularly belief, I was wondering how someone who believed this could bring a child into the world.

While I don't believe in that idea of Hell either, I can think of an answer to your question. All of us chose to come here and knew very well the risk we took with that decision. But, seeing how the only way we had of growing and progressing further than we had, we decided to come here to be born, live, and die in the hope of becoming more godlike.

 

[xkatz]

But how could they take the chance, just imagine spending an eternity suffering? Even if only a very small percentage go astray, it would still be horrible to know that a person you consciously chose to create will spend an eternity suffering.

Well being in a bunch of clouds in the sky, just doing nothing sounds equally as horrible and terribly boring as well.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Well being in a bunch of clouds in the sky, just doing nothing sounds equally as horrible and terribly boring as well.

Oh come now Who actually believes in that? I would hope people realize that heaven is not going to be like that.

 

[xkatz]

Oh come now Who actually believes in that? I would hope people realize that heaven is not going to be like that.

What is heaven according to you?

 

[challupa]

This question is directed to those who believe in a literal Hell. A Hell that consists of damnation, eternal torture and other unpleasant situations.

While I do not share this particularly belief, I was wondering how someone who believed this could bring a child into the world. Because no matter how well you perform as a parent, your child has the right to choose his belief system. If there is even a small chance he will choose the wrong belief system then you as his parent bears the responsibility of creating a human being that will spend his eternal afterlife in a horrible place. I don't think I could live with this fact.

For example, how does a Christian fundamentalist whose child chooses not to accept Christ as their Savior and then dies of a drug overdose live with the fact their child, their creation, will spent an eternity in hell?

I am just curious.

I was adopted into a very strict fundamentalist group that believed that their version of religion was the only truth. I left the sect when I was about 12 and fought to free myself until I finally left at 17. Now, my parents loved me a lot. I was an only child they adopted when my mother was 46, so you can understand how much I meant to them. The greatest sadness that I have ever had was knowing that my parents went to their graves believing they would never see their precious child again. I was not part of their religion and there was no salvation within another religion. It must have been absolutely heartbreaking for them. I know it was hard on me, knowing what they believed. I do not believe in hell so I have none of these quandries myself, but I do think it is a shame that religions teach there could be a place of eternal torment for their adherents. Also, I would not want to be in their heaven either. I cannot imagine what it must be like to be in heaven and be able to see those in hell, being tormented and not be able to help them. Neither place in Christianity seems like a very nice place to be.

 

[Dunemeister]

I agree that we all take many chances just in getting up out of bed in the morning. But most people are careful in taking chances, they go for the most rewards with the fewest risks.

Well, cowards do this. I don't think doing what "most people" do is necessarily the wisest or most faithful. People of faith take much bigger risks (at least as viewed from our current pre-eschaton position).

But taking the risk in creating a human being (mostly because of your narcissistic needs or maybe biological programming) to procreate while believing there is possibility this new person may spend eternity in Hell, it seems to me you are taking a huge risk.

I don't know about that. There is a very small chance that I could have a fatal accident if I leave my home today. But I take that risk. There is a small chance that my child will die if she plays outside with friends and under adult supervision. I'll send her outside to play under those conditions anyway. Do I not have the right to take that risk (going out of the house) or to make my child take that risk (of going outside to play)? Indeed, don't I have that RESPONSIBILITY?

BTW, I believe in God who is both Loving and Just, I don't believe that the Form of Justice would include eternal suffering for anyone. (This is another argument.)

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

What is heaven according to you?

A never-ending pathway. Onward and upward.

 

[Dunemeister]

What is heaven according to you?

I know that this question was directed toward DavyCrocket, but perhaps my response won't be unwelcome.

There are three things to be said. First, "Heaven" is not a place as such. You don't "go to heaven" when you die. In the Christian religion (and by this I mean, among other things, non-LDS) heaven contrasts with "earth." "Heaven" is God's sphere of influence, his domain; "earth" is ours. Our domain is spatial and temporal, bounded by space and time. God's is not.

Second, the primary Christian prayer is that God's will would be done "on earth as it is in heaven." That is, our prayer is that just as God's justice and mercy are manifest "in heaven," so we pray that they would be so on earth. Thus Christians praying this prayer get involved in all sorts of social justice issues, not just preaching.

Third, the Christian hope lies in the ultimate fulfillment of that imprecatory prayer. There will come a day when God's "place" and our place overlap completely. In the Book of Revelation, this is pictured as the heavenly city coming down to dwell on the earth. Heaven and earth "kiss" so to speak and become one. When that happens, there will still be a physical cosmos with people and plants and animals and governments and work and play and all that other good stuff. The dead in Christ will rise to live forever. (Scripture is somewhat coy about the fates of those who die outside of Christ or even after defying Christ's authority.) What will be missing will be tears, pain, injustice, death, and so on.

In other words, Christianity does not teach that we shall enjoy disembodied bliss on clouds endlessly strumming harps. Heaven, which is to say the renewed and restored cosmos, is about LIFE, and that most abundantly.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

I thought I might add, I think of hell as being finished with your journey. Hell is a static state of being. So to me, floating around on clouds forever would be hell.