Galatians 2:20

[Unveiled Artist]

"I have been crucified In Christ. Nevertheless, I live; yet, not I, but Christ lives in me. The life which I live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself up for me." ~Galations 2:20

This verse is what brought me to the Catholic Church three years ago before I stopped practicing Christianity altogether. I thought as I took the sacraments that I have been crucified in Christ--so I was crucified not just Christ. I live, not for myself, but for Christ. When I think of Christ, I think of Him doing the greatest sacrifice of them all, dying for someone else--which people in war do all the time. So, dying in Him is like I made the greatest sacrifice. So, I went on that the life I live in this body, I live now in my faith that I have died for others thereby as a daughter of God. Then it came to Christ loved me; and, I didn't understand that. I did understand that He gave Himself up for me as for all.

So dying in Christ is crucifying yourself In Him. It does not mean you let Him save you and you follow Him and try not to sin. That's not dying in Christ; that's letting Him do the dirty work. In this scripture it says you must die in Him so you can live.

For me, I find it hard to use someone else so that I can live with a pure mind and trying not to sin. That's just me. How do you see this verse? Do you believe that you must be crucified in Christ in order for Him to live in you? How do you interpret your salvation in Christ? We all have faith in our religions or relationships; but, the foundation of how we express and live those foundations are beyond the concept of having faith. So how do you view your salvation in your Savior?

 

[Eileen]

Gal 2:20 — Now as I live, no longer shall it be [just] me, but Mashiach living together with me. At the moment, I live within [a body of] flesh, by means of trusting. I live for G-d, and Mashiach — the one who loves me, and who shall make himself available for my benefit.

A slightly different translation of Gal 2:20 based on an older Papyri d, [P46] dated between 170 an 200 ce. A It might give you some ideas as to what this means.

 

[katiemygirl]

"I have been crucified In Christ. Nevertheless, I live; yet, not I, but Christ lives in me. The life which I live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself up for me." ~Galations 2:20

This verse is what brought me to the Catholic Church three years ago before I stopped practicing Christianity altogether. I thought as I took the sacraments that I have been crucified in Christ--so I was crucified not just Christ. I live, not for myself, but for Christ. When I think of Christ, I think of Him doing the greatest sacrifice of them all, dying for someone else--which people in war do all the time. So, dying in Him is like I made the greatest sacrifice. So, I went on that the life I live in this body, I live now in my faith that I have died for others thereby as a daughter of God. Then it came to Christ loved me; and, I didn't understand that. I did understand that He gave Himself up for me as for all.

So dying in Christ is crucifying yourself In Him. It does not mean you let Him save you and you follow Him and try not to sin. That's not dying in Christ; that's letting Him do the dirty work. In this scripture it says you must die in Him so you can live.

For me, I find it hard to use someone else so that I can live with a pure mind and trying not to sin. That's just me. How do you see this verse? Do you believe that you must be crucified in Christ in order for Him to live in you? How do you interpret your salvation in Christ? We all have faith in our religions or relationships; but, the foundation of how we express and live those foundations are beyond the concept of having faith. So how do you view your salvation in your Savior?

Romans 6:3-7, and Colossians 2:11-14

We died to sin. We were buried with Christ in baptism. We were buried with Him into death. We will also be raised with Him. Our sinful selves were nailed to the cross with Him. Sin will no longer make slaves of us. A person who dies is set free from sin.

I believe this verse says we must die to sin if we want to be raised to life.

We believe Jesus is the Son of God. We repent. We are immersed. Jesus has commanded us to do these things. If we obey Jesus, we will be forgiven. He will add us to His church. We will be clothed with Christ. We will be in Christ, where all Spiritual blessing are found.

It is a wonderful thing to be in Christ!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When I took the sacraments of the Church, in Baptism, I died In Christ thereby the guilt of the sins I committed where washed clean both physically and spiritually.

When you say "I believe [which is what I'm looking for, what you believe] this verse says we must die to sin if we want to be raised to life."

Is dying In sin and dying To sin the same thing? In your own words, simply, how do you interpret your salvation? I interpreted it at the time as dying In Christ rather than Christ dying for me. I mean, you could say, when I died in Christ that equaled to (rather than replaced) Christ dying for me.

Not everyone sees it that way. What do you see personally?

 

[Yes]

When we want to be reconciled to God, we admit that we are sinners. We confess our sins to God through Jesus, and obey Jesus' teachings. Admitting that we are sinners, confessing our sins, and repenting of them is obeying Jesus. We call on Jesus to help us.

When Jesus accepts you, he will save you. He will wash all your sins away and live inside you.

You will then have help and comfort as you live the rest of your life through Jesus, and Jesus will live through you.

We live through Jesus and Jesus lives through us when you obey him.

.

 

[Yes]

Carlita, I must tell you about the Catholic denomination.

If we want to be saved, we must do what Jesus says. Jesus says to obey.

The Catholics do not obey.

The Catholics call their brothers in Christ 'father'.

They also make images and bow to them.

The Catholics also use Mary and the other "Saints" to intercede for them to God.

They do many other things that God says not to do.

If you want God's Truth, then you must do what God says.

 

[AllanV]

When I took the sacraments of the Church, in Baptism, I died In Christ thereby the guilt of the sins I committed where washed clean both physically and spiritually.

When you say "I believe [which is what I'm looking for, what you believe] this verse says we must die to sin if we want to be raised to life."

Is dying In sin and dying To sin the same thing? In your own words, simply, how do you interpret your salvation? I interpreted it at the time as dying In Christ rather than Christ dying for me. I mean, you could say, when I died in Christ that equaled to (rather than replaced) Christ dying for me.

Not everyone sees it that way. What do you see personally?

Baptism by full immersion for the remission of sins and then the laying on of hands to receive the holy Spirit. This is preparation and grace is afforded and then there is access to the sanctuary the Holy Place of God.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

It depends on your gift and your place in the body of Christ. Christ is the mind and consciousness of Jesus and this is apparent in His nature.

There is another dimension to this whole question.
I know I have the holy Spirit even if at times it is pushed to the background.
I fasted for three weeks just before Saddam's Iraq invaded Kuwait.
I prayed 3 times a day to be holy and perfect and to be purified.
I read scriptures and spoke them out all day with my wife and my own mind lost some of its power. Revelations coming into the thoughts were spoken out loud and the spirit energized them. My faith and belief grew and my old mind with memories, imagination, thoughts began to be lost.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

In fact they were resisted and turned away from because they were mostly generated from amongst people who were motivated by carnal nature.

I listened to Derek Prince twice a day early morning and evening. He did not eat at my heart. I was sensitive because of the fast it then becomes easy to know what is on their heart.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

My belief was becoming complete and this was being confirmed because as words were being spoken they were energized.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (a Rhema)

I began to be a little fearful because this was unknown territory and I was loosing the mind that was familiar to me and probably everyone else too because it sat behind my personality.

Weakness filled my body because no food was eaten. I did begin to loose my grip and something tried to take over my mind prompting or tempting me to do things I would never do usually. There are personality traits that are subtle and hidden but they determine behavior. This was capturing my will but I was saved from it.

The next night I prayed and broke inwardly very deeply and with my will every last tiny aspect was thrust away and then there was an awareness of mind and an incredible Love that centered in my chest in my heart. God energized the nature of Jesus that had been found and this covered my old nature and my self had been purified.

My mind was empty of all the aspects and traits that sit behind the flawed personality.

Now the understanding is there that the doctrine of the churches is not transforming any one by the Spirit. The attempt is to make it an intellectual exercise with a lot of story telling.

There is a crucial crossing over from the old mind to the new, The Mind Of Christ.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

It is all practical and not really intellectual.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I was trying to understand all you said and relate it to the questions I asked. I normally don't read more than two or three scriptures; since, without direct commentary afterwards, I don't see the point you're expressing through it without your personal interpretation and experience of it.

If you can summarize what you wrote that would be good?

Also, I didn't see answers to:

Do you believe that you must be crucified in Christ in order for Him to live in you?

I know scripture teaches about how one is saved and about the Holy Spirit. In direct relation to Galatians 2:20, do you believe you have been crucified in order to be saved/live In Him? If so, what was your experience; if not, what other way would you interpret living in Christ without being crucified in Him?

Also, we all have faith in our religions and relationships. Some of our religions are based on faith not just Christianity. How we live and express our beliefs go way beyond faith. So how do you view your salvation in your Savior?

Thanks

Baptism by full immersion for the remission of sins and then the laying on of hands to receive the holy Spirit. This is preparation and grace is afforded and then there is access to the sanctuary the Holy Place of God.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

It depends on your gift and your place in the body of Christ. Christ is the mind and consciousness of Jesus and this is apparent in His nature.

There is another dimension to this whole question.
I know I have the holy Spirit even if at times it is pushed to the background.
I fasted for three weeks just before Saddam's Iraq invaded Kuwait.
I prayed 3 times a day to be holy and perfect and to be purified.
I read scriptures and spoke them out all day with my wife and my own mind lost some of its power. Revelations coming into the thoughts were spoken out loud and the spirit energized them. My faith and belief grew and my old mind with memories, imagination, thoughts began to be lost.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

In fact they were resisted and turned away from because they were mostly generated from amongst people who were motivated by carnal nature.

I listened to Derek Prince twice a day early morning and evening. He did not eat at my heart. I was sensitive because of the fast it then becomes easy to know what is on their heart.

Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

My belief was becoming complete and this was being confirmed because as words were being spoken they were energized.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (a Rhema)

I began to be a little fearful because this was unknown territory and I was loosing the mind that was familiar to me and probably everyone else too because it sat behind my personality.

Weakness filled my body because no food was eaten. I did begin to loose my grip and something tried to take over my mind prompting or tempting me to do things I would never do usually. There are personality traits that are subtle and hidden but they determine behavior. This was capturing my will but I was saved from it.

The next night I prayed and broke inwardly very deeply and with my will every last tiny aspect was thrust away and then there was an awareness of mind and an incredible Love that centered in my chest in my heart. God energized the nature of Jesus that had been found and this covered my old nature and my self had been purified.

My mind was empty of all the aspects and traits that sit behind the flawed personality.

Now the understanding is there that the doctrine of the churches is not transforming any one by the Spirit. The attempt is to make it an intellectual exercise with a lot of story telling.

There is a crucial crossing over from the old mind to the new, The Mind Of Christ.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

It is all practical and not really intellectual.

 

[AllanV]

I was trying to understand all you said and relate it to the questions I asked. I normally don't read more than two or three scriptures; since, without direct commentary afterwards, I don't see the point you're expressing through it without your personal interpretation and experience of it.

If you can summarize what you wrote that would be good?

Also, I didn't see answers to:

Do you believe that you must be crucified in Christ in order for Him to live in you?

I know scripture teaches about how one is saved and about the Holy Spirit. In direct relation to Galatians 2:20, do you believe you have been crucified in order to be saved/live In Him? If so, what was your experience; if not, what other way would you interpret living in Christ without being crucified in Him?

Also, we all have faith in our religions and relationships. Some of our religions are based on faith not just Christianity. How we live and express our beliefs go way beyond faith. So how do you view your salvation in your Savior?

Thanks

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Yes it can come out a bit complicated. Overall the usual message of the Church is off the mark though.

Remember that this experience is impossible to comprehend in the natural mind. It is impossible to imagine. Steps need to be taken and the way in unfolds as progress is made in a forward manner not looking back for the old mind.

Everyone is bonded in the mind in familiar responses. The mind with self belief and personality is relatively predatory much like the biology on the planet. The personal mind must be strong while interacting, otherwise every other belief would take over, and people do get conned all the time. Other people tend to get what they are after to satisfy themselves, therefore it is a constant battle and it is being played out in the mind first.
This mind indicates bonding with family and friends associates and all connection must be severed to proceed.
Each mind then has attachments with temptation and prompting as to how far it will take the individual to get what is wanted. This is Satan attaching and then standing in the place of the knowledge of God in the mind.
Adam formed a mind and consciousness that denied him access to the tree of life and immortality. We are his genetic line or his type, we age and die.

Jesus overcame the nature and mind with consciousness, of Adam.
The Bible describes the way to find this new nature and mind.
Taking on Christ is not a casual occurrence in a conversation. It is something to be sought after actively. A person who has belief and faith can go deeper into an experience.
This is where the proper working of the church should be making everyone a partaker of the divine nature. The different gifts would be working by the same spirit.

There is a crucial barrier in the mind that needs to be overcome. Crucial is crux or cross, a crossing over from one mind to another that potentially brings immortality.
The nature of Jesus must be found and the mind of Christ must be allowed to displace the old.
If I try to live my own life then it will always be difficult and I will die, especially now the other is understood.
If the new nature and mind are found then it will still be difficult but I am in line to inherit immortality.
God empowers me by His spirit to take others into a deeper experience if they are willing.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you. I will have to re-read that, of course. I found my leaving Christ my mind was renewed to a new person gradually evolved. When I practiced Christianity--which I believe practice and faith go hand in hand--I got the "fluff" or inertia of Christianity but I remember telling my friend, "I need to build a relationship wit Him." And it hit me. I have no desire to build a relationship with someone I do not love (in all aspects of the word), know personally, and is not related to me in one way or the other. It is akin to my wanting a relationship with you and I don't even know you whatsoever.

When someone receive Christ (or any other faith they commit themselves to), it is difficult if not impossible to not believe.

(I have to go.. be continued...)

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Yes it can come out a bit complicated. Overall the usual message of the Church is off the mark though.

Remember that this experience is impossible to comprehend in the natural mind. It is impossible to imagine. Steps need to be taken and the way in unfolds as progress is made in a forward manner not looking back for the old mind.

Everyone is bonded in the mind in familiar responses. The mind with self belief and personality is relatively predatory much like the biology on the planet. The personal mind must be strong while interacting, otherwise every other belief would take over, and people do get conned all the time. Other people tend to get what they are after to satisfy themselves, therefore it is a constant battle and it is being played out in the mind first.
This mind indicates bonding with family and friends associates and all connection must be severed to proceed.
Each mind then has attachments with temptation and prompting as to how far it will take the individual to get what is wanted. This is Satan attaching and then standing in the place of the knowledge of God in the mind.
Adam formed a mind and consciousness that denied him access to the tree of life and immortality. We are his genetic line or his type, we age and die.

Jesus overcame the nature and mind with consciousness, of Adam.
The Bible describes the way to find this new nature and mind.
Taking on Christ is not a casual occurrence in a conversation. It is something to be sought after actively. A person who has belief and faith can go deeper into an experience.
This is where the proper working of the church should be making everyone a partaker of the divine nature. The different gifts would be working by the same spirit.

There is a crucial barrier in the mind that needs to be overcome. Crucial is crux or cross, a crossing over from one mind to another that potentially brings immortality.
The nature of Jesus must be found and the mind of Christ must be allowed to displace the old.
If I try to live my own life then it will always be difficult and I will die, especially now the other is understood.
If the new nature and mind are found then it will still be difficult but I am in line to inherit immortality.
God empowers me by His spirit to take others into a deeper experience if they are willing.

 

[Yes]

Thank you. I will have to re-read that, of course. I found my leaving Christ my mind was renewed to a new person gradually evolved. When I practiced Christianity--which I believe practice and faith go hand in hand--I got the "fluff" or inertia of Christianity but I remember telling my friend, "I need to build a relationship wit Him." And it hit me. I have no desire to build a relationship with someone I do not love (in all aspects of the word), know personally, and is not related to me in one way or the other. It is akin to my wanting a relationship with you and I don't even know you whatsoever.

When someone receive Christ (or any other faith they commit themselves to), it is difficult if not impossible to not believe.

(I have to go.. be continued...)

You never had Christ so how could you leave him?

The Catholic denomination does not preach Christ.

 

[nazz]

"I have been crucified In Christ. Nevertheless, I live; yet, not I, but Christ lives in me. The life which I live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself up for me." ~Galations 2:20

This verse is what brought me to the Catholic Church three years ago before I stopped practicing Christianity altogether. I thought as I took the sacraments that I have been crucified in Christ--so I was crucified not just Christ. I live, not for myself, but for Christ. When I think of Christ, I think of Him doing the greatest sacrifice of them all, dying for someone else--which people in war do all the time. So, dying in Him is like I made the greatest sacrifice. So, I went on that the life I live in this body, I live now in my faith that I have died for others thereby as a daughter of God. Then it came to Christ loved me; and, I didn't understand that. I did understand that He gave Himself up for me as for all.

So dying in Christ is crucifying yourself In Him. It does not mean you let Him save you and you follow Him and try not to sin. That's not dying in Christ; that's letting Him do the dirty work. In this scripture it says you must die in Him so you can live.

For me, I find it hard to use someone else so that I can live with a pure mind and trying not to sin. That's just me. How do you see this verse? Do you believe that you must be crucified in Christ in order for Him to live in you? How do you interpret your salvation in Christ? We all have faith in our religions or relationships; but, the foundation of how we express and live those foundations are beyond the concept of having faith. So how do you view your salvation in your Savior?

For me it's about crucifying the ego

 

[AllanV]

For me it's about crucifying the ego

It is difficult to put a finger on what it is.
But the scripture says with boldness to present your body as a living sacrifice. Therefore the mind, nature, person is then renewed to a different life entirely. My mother who is deceased now once said if you do that you will turn into a zombie.
But no, everything is renewed clean and energized.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes. I have had Christ; and, that is why I can leave Him. If it were not possible to have Him, then the Bible would be wrong to say anyone who leaves Christ God will not forgiven. That verse would not make sense if those who receive Christ have no ability to leave Him. Also, whoever is with God is always His. So, did I really leave, that's up to God to say not anyone else and not myself.

For example, I love my mother and father dearly; but, I have the ability to leave them for any reason and still love them as my parents.

Also, the Church does teach Jesus Christ. I did not go into Churches where they forbid you reading the Bible, that praying to statues are worshiping them (which is so wrong), and where Mary is highly venerated. I came in where one is literally Baptized by the Holy Spirit both physically and spiritually. I went to confession to confess my sins to God. I went to confirmation to say (as the whole world does when they receive confirmation) "Yes" I want Jesus to be my Lord and Savior. I also sat at Jesus' table and ate of His Body (the Mana of nourishment) and blood (the blood of cleansing).

If you're talking about Roman Catholic, there are some things I disagree with on the Roman side. Orthodox Catholic and Catholicism in general teaches about Jesus Christ. It's history doesn't reflect the teachings they give and the history they give non Catholics who read the Bible with which Catholicism put together to begin with.

You never had Christ so how could you leave him?

The Catholic denomination does not preach Christ.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For me it's about crucifying the ego

I can see that, most definitely.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is difficult to put a finger on what it is.But the scripture says with boldness to present your body as a living sacrifice.

Would it be safe to say that because we are living sacrifice is one who gives his or her life to God; and, when we do not do that for God and His Son--the Body of Christ--we are not following scripture? We die to others as Christ did for all, type of thing?

When I hear Christians speak about believing in Christ, I really don't hear them doing anything for Him and for His Son.

 

[Yes]

Yes. I have had Christ; and, that is why I can leave Him. If it were not possible to have Him, then the Bible would be wrong to say anyone who leaves Christ God will not forgiven.
That verse would not make sense if those who receive Christ have no ability to leave Him. Also, whoever is with God is always His. So, did I really leave, that's up to God to say not anyone else and not myself.

I am speaking about those in the Catholic denomination.

For example, I love my mother and father dearly; but, I have the ability to leave them for any reason and still love them as my parents.

Also, the Church does teach Jesus Christ. I did not go into Churches where they forbid you reading the Bible, that praying to statues are worshiping them (which is so wrong), and where Mary is highly venerated.

Did your church have statues, or pictures, or crucifixes? If it did, then the Catholics are to worship those things.

After you entered the church and before being seated, did you look to the front of the church, kneel, and make the sign of the cross? If you did that, then you were bowing to the cross and the altar.

I came in where one is literally Baptized by the Holy Spirit both physically and spiritually. I went to confession to confess my sins to God. I went to confirmation to say (as the whole world does when they receive confirmation) "Yes" I want Jesus to be my Lord and Savior. I also sat at Jesus' table and ate of His Body (the Mana of nourishment) and blood (the blood of cleansing).

How do you think you ate from Jesus' body?

If you're talking about Roman Catholic, there are some things I disagree with on the Roman side. Orthodox Catholic and Catholicism in general teaches about Jesus Christ. It's history doesn't reflect the teachings they give and the history they give non Catholics who read the Bible with which Catholicism put together to begin with.

Roman Catholic and Orthodox are not much different at all.

The Orthodox might not put themselves under the Catholic's pope, but they call their brothers 'father' just as the other Catholics do. The Orthodox might not have statues to bow to, but they have pictures in which they bow.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Please wait a bit before replying. I tend to look over what I write and find errors in thought. Thanks.

That's the thing... are you talking about the Catholic Church or Catholics in general. I can't speak on behalf of the Church. I can just say what the Pope wrote when He did the Catechism for the Church and the scripture it provides in relation to what is taught in the Catechism.

Carlita, I must tell you about the Catholic denomination.

If we want to be saved, we must do what Jesus says. Jesus says to obey.

Catholics (as people) do that. Not everyone to the same degree. When I practiced Catholicism, I did that. My friend does it. That's generalization. Many Catholics do believe in Jesus Christ, follow Him, and obey. Just because they say they are Catholic, they get the run around--they are followers of Christ. We can put the labels aside for now.

The Catholics do not obey.

Which Catholics?

The Catholics call their brothers in Christ 'father'.

No. We call priests f-athers just as I call my father, father out of respect to him as my parent. The priest will tell you himself that he is just a human and God gave him not Him a calling to help others come to Christ (human wise). (This is a really crewd example, sorry Catholics.) It's like going to therapy and you tell your therapist you want to reconcile with your brother but he wronged you to where you couldn't forgive him. She doesn't become your brother so that you are forgiven by the therapist. She doesn't speak on behalf of your brother. No, you are going their to repent and talk about what you and your brother have done and seek consultation to where you are reconciled with yourself and, by going to your brother, reconciled to your brother as well.

When we call a priest father, it is always with a lower F; because, I was taught and I understand it to be from the Church is that the Father works through all people. Priest take up a role to help people come to Christ. They are not the Holy Spirit. They are Church elders (if you like that phrase better) and within the Catholic domination, many Catholics look up to these elders to better understand their devotion to Christ in addition to not replace of the advice they are given from Christ and from scripture.

They also make images and bow to them.

When we bow down to an image (I wont speak for all), we bow down to who that image represents. I have two pictures of both my grandma on my mother and father side. My mother's mother passed in 96 my father's mother two months ago. When I sit in front of their picture, I am not worshiping or reflecting on their pictures, I am reflecting on who they are in relation to me. I'm reflecting on my family, my bloodline, how to get my family back together... I'm grieving the loss of my family, and so on and so forth.

Likewise in Catholicism. Statutes, images, whatever, are not worshiped. The Catholicism explicitly states in the Second (they put it in the 1st commandment) commandment that no images are to be worshiped. There is a whole section devoted to not praying to images.

When I see a Catholic pray to Jesus, I see them sit in front of Jesus statue and bow their heads. Like me and my grandmothers' pictures, they are reflecting His death and resurrection; thinking of the sins they ask God (not the statue) to be forgiven of; they reflect on His passion. They don't need a statute to reflect and be saved... that's just a memorial thing (like having a tome stone at your family's grave) that helps the reflection of those who followed Jesus as well as Jesus Himself and His Family. Nothing wrong with that.

The Catholics also use Mary and the other "Saints" to intercede for them to God.

Unfortunately, this one I can't refute from a protestant perspective. I don't know where the intercession history came from because every culture has done it for years... having passed spirits (not dead) talk to God so that they are comfortable not just by God but by His family too. I talk with my grandmas all the time about the best way to know God. My situation and views are different than yours; but I'm sure you at least get my point?

They do many other things that God says not to do.

The only couple of things I can think of that the Church does differently than what scripture says is the new things they put in such as Mary being sinless and something else, I gotta think. The Eucharist is a fuzzy one because Roman Catholics concrecate (bless) Jesus blood/body every day three or four times a week. Other Catholic Churches feel that the bread/wine are blessed in themselves and do not need repeated consecration.

There is a scripture in the gospel that says why do people argue about whether people honor the sabath on this date and why people say its another date. When worshiping God in itself is what is needed; the dates (and other examples scripture gave) is not important as much as the intent and who they are giving the thanks to. I will find that scripture. It's at the end of one of the books.

Anyway, I would say that is the same with communion. Many churches celebrate communion in different ways. The only way it can be wrong to you is if you truly believe that the Priest is consecrating the bread/wine... if you do not believe it, how is against scripture when its false?

If you want God's Truth, then you must do what God says.

Every Christian is on his or her own level of walk with God. It is between God and that Christian and no one else. To tell any Catholic they are believing in and practicing the wrong thing is assuming you know their heart. You do not. It's insulting to talk about the Church; but, I have my issues to with that. However, talking about people is a different story.

 

[Yes]

It is difficult to put a finger on what it is.But the scripture says with boldness to present your body as a living sacrifice.

Would it be safe to say that because we are living sacrifice is one who gives his or her life to God; and, when we do not do that for God and His Son--the Body of Christ--we are not following scripture? We die to others as Christ did for all, type of thing?

When I hear Christians speak about believing in Christ, I really don't hear them doing anything for Him and for His Son.

What do you think we should do?
How do you think you left Jesus?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Please wait a couple minutes before replying. I'm replying to this so you don't have to do another reply to the post I edited.

I am speaking about those in the Catholic denomination.

Did your church have statues, or pictures, or crucifixes? If it did, then the Catholics are to worship those things.

I don't worship those things. I know many Catholics my friend included who do not worship those things.

The Catechism (Catholicism's resource book) does not advocate praying to statues. It's against the second testament (which you will read in that book, its under the first)

That's like my going into a Baptist Church, seeing a cross on the wall, and because the congregation is facing the cross and singing in front of it, they are worshiping it. That's ridiculous. No baptist I know worships the ornaments, crosses, and decorations that represent who they worship. Catholicism is no different.

After you entered the church and before being seated, did you look to the front of the church, kneel, and make the sign of the cross? If you did that, then you were bowing to the cross and the altar.

Yes. I do that. I show respect to Christ when I walk into any religious environment be it a mosque or wherever. I give my respect in a place of worship.

Yes, many Catholics, when they do that, they bow down (prostrate their bodies) to the Cross (representation of Jesus--not Jesus Himself) and the alter (which is the Lord's Table). It's not just religious it's cultural. Each religious custom/culture has their ways of respect. I went to Mass one time and a lady came to the Eucharist.. she didn't genuflect, she bowed by prostrating her body at half degree. Many people from Asian countries show sign of respect or veneration by bowing... I read the further one bows the deeper the respect. The Catholic Church doesn't teach to bow in that manner. However, given its a custom to give respect to the person you give your life to, we do things that are culturally appropriate to our family and how we were raised.

In other words, when we bow, it's to show respect to the person we are worshiping not a statue or alter. That's like my shaking hands with my boss and dipping my head and she looks to me as if I'm worshiping her when she instead knows that that's America's what of proper respect between client and employer in some cases. Military practices are another good example.

How do you think you ate from Jesus' body?

This is how I see it and how I read it from the Church. I spoke with a priest about it as well.

When we take the Eucharist, we are not seeing Christ (His fingers, toes, hair on His head) Don't get me wrong, maybe people do? I don't know why any Catholic has a problem with this but its a symbolization and representation of Christ who is literally (by spirit) in the bread/wine.

Good example: Remember in the movie Ten Commandments (cant remember the Book now) where Mana came from the sky to heal the ills of the Israelite stomachs? Remember also the blood that was slain in temples in Leviticus meaning the blood was a sacrifice for the sins of the tribes?

The mana is the bread and the blood is the wine. So when a Catholic eats of the bread, He is eating nourishment given from God. (Which is Christ). When he drinks the wine, he is washed clean by the blood which Jesus says is His body. It is profound because when Jesus says "do this in memory of me" he is telling people that His body (His Spirit) is nourishment to your souls; and to whomever takes of this bread/wine (what I give you in my hands-myself) will have me in Spirit.

Look beyond the literal bread and wine. That will literally trip you up. It's spiritual. To me, literal is if you see Jesus' fingers and toes. I confirmed that Catholics don't see the Eucharist that way, neither do I. Please don't say all Catholics believe what you feel the Church believes.

Roman Catholic and Orthodox are not much different at all.

Kinda

The Orthodox might not put themselves under the Catholic's pope, but they call their brothers 'father' just as the other Catholics do. The Orthodox might not have statues to bow to, but they have pictures in which they bow.

Explained that above.

It just seems so common sense that its hard to find at least one person who doesn't agree with Catholicism to at least UNDERSTAND it. /still searches/


How do you think you ate from Jesus' body?


Roman Catholic and Orthodox are not much different at all.

The Orthodox might not put themselves under the Catholic's pope, but they call their brothers 'father' just as the other Catholics do. The Orthodox might not have statues to bow to, but they have pictures in which they bow.[/QUOTE]