Ganesha helps

[ShivaFan]

One of the MANY Ganesha murtis of my wife. This Ganesha is interesting, I have never seen one like it as it shows Ganesha riding a Three Headed Elephant..

Update - I believe this 3 headed elephant being rode by Ganesha here is Airāvana an elephant of Indra.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. so a bit of sibling rivalry there.

When they did that, they were young. They have got over that. Each has married twice. Riddhi (Prosperity) and Siddhi (achievement) or Ganesha, and Valli and Devasena for Murugan. Labha (Profit) and Shubha (Auspicious) are Ganesha's sons.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I believe this 3 headed elephant being rode by Ganesha here is Airāvana an elephant of Indra.

'Airavata'. Yes, this is not common. Sometimes Airavata is up to seven-headed.

 

[Kirran]

'Airavata'. Yes, this is not common. Sometimes Airavata is up to seven-headed.

What's the significance of Airavata? What do the heads represent?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I wish you had not asked me this question. But since you have, here is my explanation (people here do not agree with it). Aryans lived in a region where the sun never set for seven months and faltered only in the eighth month. RigVeda says there are seven sons of God-Mother Aditi and the eighth, Martanda, was born undeveloped. The eighth was used by the Gods to create humans who will be born and die. So, seven became sacred. Seven heads of Airavata, the elephant mount of Indra; and seven heads of the horse, Uccaishrava, the mount of the Sun God; seven are the primordial sages born in each age; seven manifestations of pranas; seven types of officiating preists (Ritvijah); etc.

अष्टौ पुत्रासो अदितेर्ये जातास्तन्वस परि । देवानुपप्रैत सप्तभिः परा मार्ताण्डमास्यत ॥
सप्तभिः पुत्रैरदितिरुप परैत पूर्व्यं युगम । परजायै मर्त्यवे तवत पुनर्मार्ताण्डमाभरत ॥
Ashau putraso aditerye jatah tanvasa pari l devanupapraita saptabhih para martandam syat ll
saptabhih putraih aditirupa paraita purvyam yugam l parajayai martyeva tavata punah martandam abharat ll
Eight are the Sons of Aditi who from her body sprang to life, with seven she went to meet the Gods she cast Martanda far away.
So with her Seven Sons Aditi went forth to meet the earlier age, she brought Martanda thitherward to spring to life and die again.
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LXXII. The Gods. Verse 8 & 9.

 

[Kirran]

I wish you had not asked me this question. But since you have, here is my explanation (people here do not agree with it). Aryans lived in a region where the sun never set for seven months and faltered only in the eighth month. RigVeda says there are seven sons of God-Mother Aditi and the eighth, Martanda, was born undeveloped. The eighth was used by the Gods to create humans who will be born and die. So, seven became sacred. Seven heads of Airavata, the elephant mount of Indra; and seven heads of the horse, Uccaishrava, the mount of the Sun God; seven are the primordial sages born in each age; seven manifestations of pranas; seven types of officiating preists (Ritvijah); etc.

अष्टौ पुत्रासो अदितेर्ये जातास्तन्वस परि । देवानुपप्रैत सप्तभिः परा मार्ताण्डमास्यत ॥
सप्तभिः पुत्रैरदितिरुप परैत पूर्व्यं युगम । परजायै मर्त्यवे तवत पुनर्मार्ताण्डमाभरत ॥
Ashau putraso aditerye jatah tanvasa pari l devanupapraita saptabhih para martandam syat ll
saptabhih putraih aditirupa paraita purvyam yugam l parajayai martyeva tavata punah martandam abharat ll
Eight are the Sons of Aditi who from her body sprang to life, with seven she went to meet the Gods she cast Martanda far away.
So with her Seven Sons Aditi went forth to meet the earlier age, she brought Martanda thitherward to spring to life and die again.
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN LXXII. The Gods. Verse 8 & 9.

Well, sorry for asking, but thanks for the explanation, that was very illuminating

At any rate, if people come up here and disagree with you, the discussion will likely be interesting to read.

 

[Vinayaka]

Kirran, stories of sons and daughters and rivalries are from the Puranas. The Puranas are anthropomorphized myths that generally teach lessons. The Gods mystically are more like spinning whirls of energy. Ganesha is the easiest to contact, and deals with more worldly concerns of dharma, whereas Murugan is the God of Yoga, more inner and austere, whom we'd supplicated for inner knowledge.

 

[Shantanu]

Aryans lived in a region where the sun never set for seven months and faltered only in the eighth month.

I would be interested in discussing this theory. Could you elaborate on where on Earth the Aryans came from and what evidence you use to support this theory - in a new thread or if you could point to an existing thread that I can read up. Thanks Aupmanyavji.

 

[Stormcry]

In Veda, there's no evidence of Aryans migrating in India except some biasing and extreme interpretations of Europeans and we all know the reason.

Instead Veda declares Bharatavarsha as the homeland of Arya/Hindus ie people born in four varna-s.

In Vedic texts like Shatapatha and Aitareya Brahmanas, Aryavarta ( homeland of arya ) is clearely mentioned as Bharatavarsha or India. Lands of the Vedic people ( Hindus ) are mentioned in these texts from Gandhara (Afghanistan) in the west to Videha (Bihar) in the east, and south to Vidarbha, as well as from the western to the eastern indian oceans .

 

[Aupmanyav]

. At any rate, if people come up here and disagree with you, the discussion will likely be interesting to read.

That is what always happens.

You see, Kirran. The Ganesha Murugan rivalry story has one important lesson. That is to respect parents over the whole world. Ganesha perambulated his parents and said that he had gone round the world, while Kartikeya (excuse me, I am a North Indian and we know him by this name or that of Shanmukha (six-headed). But South Indians have a whole lot of beautiful names for Kartikeya) searched hither and thither although there was no need for it. Respect of parents/elders is one of the cardinal principles of Hinduism. And none can compare to the young man, Shravana. Do you know that story?

 

[Kirran]

You see, Kirran. The Ganesha Murugan rivalry story has one important lesson. That is to respect parents over the whole world. Ganesha perambulated his parents and said that he had gone round the world, while Kartikeya (excuse me, I am a North Indian and we know him by this name or that of Shanmukha (six-headed). But South Indians have a whole lot of beautiful names for Kartikeya) searched hither and thither although there was no need for it. Respect of parents/elders is one of the cardinal principles of Hinduism. And none can compare to the young man, Shravana. Do you know that story?

Lovely to hear more about this story, and how it reflects Hindu thoughts, thank you and I knew him by the name Kartikeya first, it took me a while to get used to Murugan. Relatively near where I grew up there's an ashram/temple complex named Skanda Vale after him.

I don't know the story of Shravana. I can look it up this evening.

 

[Vinayaka]

Skanda Vale ... as you know, Skanda is another of His names. Did you go there much?

 

[Kirran]

Skanda Vale ... as you know, Skanda is another of His names. Did you go there much?

Along with Subramanium

I only discovered it relatively recently really, as I was finding my way onto the spiritual path. But I went there during summer and spent the day there, and joined in with the puja. The elephant was out on a walk, so I didn't get to meet her. But they have a lovely three temples, lots of animals, and there were quite a lot of people.

It's run by a group called the Community of the Many Named of God.

 

[Vinayaka]

Indeed. I've never been there, but have known about it for a very long time now. It most likely isn't a 'typical' temple, whatever that means I don't know. In a way all temples are atypical. Usually temples aren't connected to monastic communities like that. I do hope you get the opportunity to visit some more soon. I think the last time I looked at the umbrella Hindu website for UK, there were well over 400 member groups, most of them temples, so on a weekend to London you could probably see 7 or 8 easily. Seeing several gives a person a better taste of our vastness.

 

[Kirran]

Indeed. I've never been there, but have known about it for a very long time now. It most likely isn't a 'typical' temple, whatever that means I don't know. In a way all temples are atypical. Usually temples aren't connected to monastic communities like that. I do hope you get the opportunity to visit some more soon. I think the last time I looked at the umbrella Hindu website for UK, there were well over 400 member groups, most of them temples, so on a weekend to London you could probably see 7 or 8 easily. Seeing several gives a person a better taste of our vastness.

Well it's certainly worth visiting if you get the chance, I'd say. I'm sure you were aware of the uproar surrounding the bull Shambo a few years ago. National headlines in Wales for a while, got pretty international.

Yeah, that makes sense. What's more, the majority of the residents were 'converts' to Hinduism (convert doesn't feel like the right term), while those visiting were primarily of Indian or Sri Lankan background, which was, to be honest, a little the inverse of what I'd expected.

That's a great idea, I think it could be very useful to go and see some more temples, although I'd likely need to ask the folks of the Hinduism DIR for some advice r.e. customs, how to show respect properly and so on.

I'm in Manchester myself. I believe there are quite a few Hindu temples here.

 

[Vinayaka]

You don't need much advice. Just go, is the main one. Just watch what the regulars do, and do what they do. Temples really cut to the chase for seekers, 10 times quicker than discussion does. You will most likely have a far better idea if it REALLY interests you, or not. Hindus feel comfortable in Hindu temples. Non Hindus don't. Properly established ones have psychic pranic bubbles built around them.

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for the encouragement! I'll look further into what temples are to be found nearby.

I do recall being a little uncomfortable at times in Skanda Vale, but that was more due to a lot of glares from some older Indian women. To be fair, they might well have glared at everybody.

It's worth looking into further.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sure you might get glares. Generally there's good reason. Some westerners don't understand traditions or orthodoxy at all, and show up wearing immodest clothing, having not bathed, etc. and not following any protocol at all. I stare at them too, and I'm a westerner. There's a certain self-righteous, proud "I'll do whatever the heck I want to," attitude that is met with disdain. Same people will go away complaining ... that's because they're not Hindus, and therefore aren't actually capable of going with the flow there, because they're from a different area of consciousness in religion. People whose souls are Hindus get it.

I remember mentioning to a new Caucasian person once as politely as I could that at our temple, men generally sit on the right, and the women on the left. Everyone there was doing that, and it was sort of obvious. Still she told me that she was going to sit wherever the hell she felt like it. In other words, beside her boyfriend. Hinduism doesn't need people like that. They'll give us a bad name.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do recall being a little uncomfortable at times in Skanda Vale, but that was more due to a lot of glares from some older Indian women.

Well, Matrons. Anywhere. They always do that, and their analysis is surgical. They are not bothered about niceties.

 

[Kirran]

Well, Matrons. Anywhere. They always do that, and their analysis is surgical. They are not bothered about niceties.

Haha, that's true, my grandmother was similar at times