Gay and Christian

[Green Gaia]

Is this thread about gay Christians or bishops and little boys? Let's define the discussion and go from there, please.

 

[James the Persian]

Let us all trust the bishop that denies his passions (at your own peril). What a load of bollocks. We can have bishops that desire boys but do not act on it and its fine. OK. Am I justified in calling this position (James's) conservative? There is no concept of triumph in victimising helpless children. There is no excuse for pedophelia. Anyone saying so ought to be arrested and asked to explain.

What on earth are you going on about? Who excused paedophillia? You continue to build your strawmen and take pot shots at them rather than even attempting to understand what I actually said. Are you seriously advocating discrimination against people for their thoughts? Ever read 1984? If a person has never given any suggestion that they are attracted to children by either word or deed are you really willing to suggest that they be barred from a certain job on the off chance that they might abuse a child? How on earth would you ever be able to tell? We aren't talking here about someone who has actually done something about their passion because such a person would have been defrocked and therefore wouldn't be in such a position ever again. I'd also note that what started out as a discussion of homosexuality has now strayed off topic into paedophillia. Is this, as it appears, because you are having a hard time arguing against what I did say? Hopefully it will be patently obvious to anyone else reading this thread that you are consistently and completely missing the point. If you can't help yourself and really cannot combat the temptation to construct strawmen and vere off topic in an attempt to bolster a shaky position then it would probably be better if you didn't bother attempting to debate in the first place.

James

 

[MaddLlama]

Why do you really care what others think? If the God you believe in accepts you, then nobody elses opinion should matter.

 

[bigvindaloo]

Is this thread about gay Christians or bishops and little boys? Let's define the discussion and go from there, please.

This thread is about general acceptance in being Gay and Christian. A general objection is made to the proposition made by James that it is permissible according to Christian Values (unspecified by James) to desire little boys and still call oneself a bishop- so long as one does not carry through and act on the thought.

 

[James the Persian]

This thread is about general acceptance in being Gay and Christian. A general objection is made to the proposition made by James that it is permissible according to Christian Values (unspecified by James) to desire little boys and still call oneself a bishop- so long as one does not carry through and act on the thought.

Actually, you were the one that brought up little boys. Our choirs are made up of adults and so when you originally made your suggestion paedophillia never even crossed my mind. My position is that atraction to anyone, like any other passion, is not reason to bar someone from the episcopate. You seem to be advocating that until we are able to read minds nobody should be allowed to be a bishop because 'who knows what they're thinking'. Your position, frankly, is absurd.

James

 

[Green Gaia]

This thread is about general acceptance in being Gay and Christian. A general objection is made to the proposition made by James that it is permissible according to Christian Values (unspecified by James) to desire little boys and still call oneself a bishop- so long as one does not carry through and act on the thought.

I really don't see what one has to do with the other. Please pick a topic and stick to it.

Your OP stated:

I am recently gay and recently Christian, do you accept me?

So let's discuss that. Thank you.

 

[sojourner]

The question isn't, "do we accept you?" The real question is: "Does Christ accept you?" You may be assured that Christ does.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

The question isn't, "do we accept you?" The real question is: "Does Christ accept you?" You may be assured that Christ does.

If we are the Church, and Christ is the Head, it certainly does matter how we accept homosexuals and homosexual Christians.

It's a lonely world if Christ accepts someone and the Church doesn't, and the Church would need serious reform.

 

[sojourner]

If we are the Church, and Christ is the Head, it certainly does matter how we accept homosexuals and homosexual Christians.

It's a lonely world if Christ accepts someone and the Church doesn't, and the Church would need serious reform.

The question sounded as if the poster was seeking our validation in lieu of seeking Christ's validation of his/her discipleship. If that's the case, the poster should be more concerned with what Christ thinks than with what we think.

But you're correct. It does matter what we do on behalf of Christ, as the Body of Christ. And I wholeheartedy believe the Church is in serious need of reform in this particular matter. I believe Christ does accept homosexual persons...and so should we.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I believe Christ does accept homosexual persons...and so should we.

Yes, but how? The degree and nature of acceptance has great variation in the church. Some "accept" homosexuals merely by letting them in the door - only to be berated and targeted politically and spiritually. They are welcomed to bear witness to how the church accepts them: as second-class American citizens and vile sinners. Such is the case with conservative Protestants accross America.

The RC and EO churches accept homosexuals but not the practice, as we have seen above, allowing homosexuals to be preists and bishops as long as they deny their passions. The RC is perhaps fair because they do not allow heterosexuals to marry as well, approaching heteros, homos, and bis on the same pasionless ground.

The American Episcopals, the UCC, and UU accepts homosexuality in nature and practice.

That's four levels of acceptance.

 

[Mike182]

if i may, some anglican churches accept homosexuality in their membership, but not in leadership

the Vineyard movement is happy for pastors and leaders to be hetrosexual, and practise it, but anyone found on the leadership team engaging in homosexual relationships are removed from leadership - the worst thing is, they have catch 21 arguments that make their position valid

they allow pastors and leaders to be sexually active if it is withing marriage

no gay marriage

though they claim to be accepting, they are not

 

[kai]

so your gay ! well some people will accept you some wont , and your christian ! well some churches will accept you some wont, just dont bother with those that wont.

but i think you already know that

 

[BUDDY]

Why would anyone who is gay, want to be christian? To me the question isn't would or should christians accept gay people, so much as why would gay people want to be part of a religion whose creed (the Bible) clearly condemns them? Is it that the glbt movement simply likes to confront those that they deem to be a threat? Or, are they trying to find a way to ignore the writings of the Bible and combine their purient and religious interests?

 

[Mathematician]

As far as I know, the only problem with being homosexual is when you commit acts of lust. The same is true for heterosexuals.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Why would anyone who is gay, want to be christian? To me the question isn't would or should christians accept gay people, so much as why would gay people want to be part of a religion whose creed (the Bible) clearly condemns them? Is it that the glbt movement simply likes to confront those that they deem to be a threat? Or, are they trying to find a way to ignore the writings of the Bible and combine their purient and religious interests?

Many people grow up in the church with an appreciation for its value and love for its people. Some who love the church and its message discover their sexuality as teenagers or adults, having been a part of the church and even its ministry as leaders for some time.

Hence the struggle.

 

[sojourner]

The American Episcopals, the UCC, and UU accepts homosexuality in nature and practice.

Many Espiscopalians do not accept the practice of homosexuality, expecially in the case of clergy. Sexual relations outside the bonds of matrimony is canonically illegal.
One can be gay. One can profess to be gay. One can be open abou that. What one cannot do is have gay sex.

 

[Smoke]

As a gay Christian, you're likely to find more acceptance on RF than you'll find on the ground, in the Christian churches.

While there's greater acceptance in some denominations than in others, I'm not aware of any large Christian denomination -- other than the Metropolitan Community Churches, whose members are predominantly gay and lesbian -- that has a denomination-wide policy of treating gay and lesbian members equally with regard to marriage and ordination. Even in the notoriously "liberal" United Church of Christ, these are very controversial issues.

 

[Smoke]

Why would anyone who is gay, want to be christian? To me the question isn't would or should christians accept gay people, so much as why would gay people want to be part of a religion whose creed (the Bible) clearly condemns them? Is it that the glbt movement simply likes to confront those that they deem to be a threat? Or, are they trying to find a way to ignore the writings of the Bible and combine their purient and religious interests?

I'm not sure why anyone, gay or straight, should want to be a Christian. However, LGBT people are Christians, and members of other religions, for the same reasons heterosexuals are. Why would a member of the military want to belong to a religion that worships a man who condemned violence? They see something there they find meaningful or satisfying.

 

[Smoke]

The American Episcopals, the UCC, and UU accepts homosexuality in nature and practice.

Homosexuality is still very controversial in both the ECUSA and the UCC, and the UUA, while inclusive of Christians, is not a Christian denomination.

 

[jamaesi]

Why would anyone who is gay, want to be christian? To me the question isn't would or should christians accept gay people, so much as why would gay people want to be part of a religion whose creed (the Bible) clearly condemns them? Is it that the glbt movement simply likes to confront those that they deem to be a threat? Or, are they trying to find a way to ignore the writings of the Bible and combine their purient and religious interests?

Maybe we just think G-d loves and accepts us too. How terrible.

We aren't out to get straight people. We'd just like to get to a point where we have equal rights and protection and don't have to worry about being a victim of a hate crime.