Gay Gene?

[john313]

Sorry john, but if any children you had were gay there would be nothing you could do about it, homosexuality is determined in the womb - they are born gay, not letting them see gay people on tv won't make them less gay. In fact if you forced them to deny their homosexuality you'd just make them depressed and psycologically ill!

please show me where science has found the gay gene. i have not read the article.

 

[john313]

A large body of research suggests that homosexuality is a learned behavior. Evidence for this comes from several sources:

1. No one has found a single genetic, hormonal or chemical difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals (Marmor J, ed., Homosexuals Behavior: A Modern Reappraisal, Basic Books)
2. Those raised in non-religious homes are 4.5 times more likely to choose a homosexual lifestyle than those raised in religious homes (Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, What Causes Homosexuality and Can It Be Cured?)
3. A number of homosexuals do change their behavior. If homosexuality were innate, change would not be possible. The rate, according to Stanton and Yarhouse, ranges from 33% to 60%. Most psychologists still believe homosexuality is learned, even those who endorse their behavior (examples include Rado, Bierber, Socarides, Kinsey, Hooker, Szaz, Marmor and Masters and Johnson).

 

[Sunstone]

A large body of research suggests that homosexuality is a learned behavior. Evidence for this comes from several sources:

1. No one has found a single genetic, hormonal or chemical difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals (Marmor J, ed., Homosexuals Behavior: A Modern Reappraisal, Basic Books)
2. Those raised in non-religious homes are 4.5 times more likely to choose a homosexual lifestyle than those raised in religious homes (Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, What Causes Homosexuality and Can It Be Cured?)
3. A number of homosexuals do change their behavior. If homosexuality were innate, change would not be possible. The rate, according to Stanton and Yarhouse, ranges from 33% to 60%. Most psychologists still believe homosexuality is learned, even those who endorse their behavior (examples include Rado, Bierber, Socarides, Kinsey, Hooker, Szaz, Marmor and Masters and Johnson).

Genetics is progressing so fast these days that the mere fact no gay gene has yet been found is little assurance no gay gene will be found.

 

[Lycan]

1. No one has found a single genetic, hormonal or chemical difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals (Marmor J, ed., Homosexuals Behavior: A Modern Reappraisal, Basic Books)

http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-journals/JCN/articles/004/Rahman.html
http://www.utexas.edu/opa/news/00newsreleases/nr_200007/nr_brain000712.html

2. Those raised in non-religious homes are 4.5 times more likely to choose a homosexual lifestyle than those raised in religious homes (Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, What Causes Homosexuality and Can It Be Cured?)

...and I wonder how many of the "religious home" group were just repressed homosexuals.

3. A number of homosexuals do change their behavior. If homosexuality were innate, change would not be possible. The rate, according to Stanton and Yarhouse, ranges from 33% to 60%. Most psychologists still believe homosexuality is learned, even those who endorse their behavior (examples include Rado, Bierber, Socarides, Kinsey, Hooker, Szaz, Marmor and Masters and Johnson).

Change in behavior does not mean the feelings/tendencies are not there, just that they are repressed/denied.

 

[john313]

Genetics is progressing so fast these days that the mere fact no gay gene has yet been found is little assurance no gay gene will be found.

science is progressing so fast these days i would think a gay gene would have been found if one existed.

 

[Valjean]

No-one has, thus far, found a gay gene. It's unlikely they will , since evidence suggests that, at least some homosexuality is determined in the 1st trimester, well after genetics are formed.

Where accurate surveys are possible, the rate of homosexuality appears remarkably consistent across various societies. (I'm skeptical about these surveys, though).

Altering hormone levels in certain ways during early gestation will reliably produce homosexual animals. A sheep is unlikely to become gay due to social pressure or poor parenting.

Homosexual individuals (human) can be identified with brain scans -- MRIs & PET. There are visible anatomical differences in gay vs straight brains. These differences are clearly innate.

I don"t discount the existence of some individuals who "choose" to be gay; who do so for various social reasons. But this is generally a quirk that will resolve spontaneously or with therapy.

Most gays are simply born gay. It is their innate Nature. It is the way God chose to make them.

 

[Lycan]

science is progressing so fast these days i would think a gay gene would have been found if one existed.

There is not a "straight" gene so why look for a "gay" gene?

 

[Druidus]

There is no "gay gene". Rather, there is a large set of genes that comprise the coded sexuality of a being. If certain things go wrong, and the gene set is different, the being in question can become homosexual. There was an experiment proving that by expressing a gene that fruit flies carry, the majority of them become homosexual. Humans have such a gene.

If you want, I will find the article again.

 

[Lightkeeper]

A large body of research suggests that homosexuality is a learned behavior. Evidence for this comes from several sources:

1. No one has found a single genetic, hormonal or chemical difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals (Marmor J, ed., Homosexuals Behavior: A Modern Reappraisal, Basic Books)
2. Those raised in non-religious homes are 4.5 times more likely to choose a homosexual lifestyle than those raised in religious homes (Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, What Causes Homosexuality and Can It Be Cured?)
3. A number of homosexuals do change their behavior. If homosexuality were innate, change would not be possible. The rate, according to Stanton and Yarhouse, ranges from 33% to 60%. Most psychologists still believe homosexuality is learned, even those who endorse their behavior (examples include Rado, Bierber, Socarides, Kinsey, Hooker, Szaz, Marmor and Masters and Johnson).

How is homosexuality a learned behavior? Both my parents are straight and so are my siblings. We had a religious home. The only way I could change would be to pretend I was straight. If homosexuality were a learned behavior 100% could change. Many homosexuals who have supposedly changed become asexual. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback and surmise what it's all about, it's another thing to live homosexuality. No one chooses to be homosexual. I tried living the straight life, it's like listening to a bad singer with no back up band to drown him out.

 

[Halcyon]

Altering hormone levels in certain ways during early gestation will reliably produce homosexual animals. A sheep is unlikely to become gay due to social pressure or poor parenting.

Homosexual individuals (human) can be identified with brain scans -- MRIs & PET. There are visible anatomical differences in gay vs straight brains. These differences are clearly innate.

Exactly right.

Essentially every human is female, in the womb fetuses with a Y chromosome are triggered via two main 'waves' of testosterone to take on male characteristics. The first lot of testosterone triggers the development of primary physical male sexual attributes, without this the fetus appears female at birth, but will not develop female secondary sexual charactersistics later on (breasts, menstral cycle etc..) and must take oestrogen to retain their female appearance (because no doubt the parents would have raised this genetic male as a girl).

The second does of testosterone in the womb changes the brain from the default female layout to a the male design, various things can happen if an incorrect dose of testosterone is applied or at the wrong time, varying from homosexuality to transgenderism. Of course the reverse is true as well, in the case of gay women, female fetuses (X X) are accidently exposed to a wave of testosterone after their bodies have been set as female which may alter their brain essentially turning it partially or fully male.

So, it is not a lifestyle choice to be gay, it is how homosexual people are born - it is who they are. If you believe in god, it is how He made them and therefore how He wanted them to be.

 

[Lightkeeper]

please show me where science has found the gay gene. i have not read the article.

Here are some interesting studies on changing sexual orientation and what psychologists think of homosexuality.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_prof.htm

 

[Master Vigil]

I think its funny how straight people like to think they understand homosexuality enough to discuss it. Its like me trying to argue what lightkeepers couch looks like. I've never seen it, so my argument is completely invalid.

 

[Melody]

I think its funny how straight people like to think they understand homosexuality enough to discuss it. Its like me trying to argue what lightkeepers couch looks like. I've never seen it, so my argument is completely invalid.

I'm not sure all straight people *want* to understand homosexuality and it doesn't matter to them *why* because the bible says *no* (or at least that's the common interpretation). I use "them" because I'm still puzzling on the problem.

I've had a number of homosexual friends (and relatives) over the years and some felt they were born that way and others chose to be that way...by their own admission. I'm not sure I understand why it matters. If you believe it's wrong, it's wrong and what's the point of looking for "excuses." If you believe it's ok, then you don't need excuses.

 

[Pah]

A large body of research suggests that homosexuality is a learned behavior. Evidence for this comes from several sources:

1. No one has found a single genetic, hormonal or chemical difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals (Marmor J, ed., Homosexuals Behavior: A Modern Reappraisal, Basic Books)
2. Those raised in non-religious homes are 4.5 times more likely to choose a homosexual lifestyle than those raised in religious homes (Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, What Causes Homosexuality and Can It Be Cured?)
3. A number of homosexuals do change their behavior. If homosexuality were innate, change would not be possible. The rate, according to Stanton and Yarhouse, ranges from 33% to 60%. Most psychologists still believe homosexuality is learned, even those who endorse their behavior (examples include Rado, Bierber, Socarides, Kinsey, Hooker, Szaz, Marmor and Masters and Johnson).

Sexual Orientation, Part 1 http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3441&highlight=common

Sexual Orientation, Part 2 http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3488&highlight=common

 

[Lightkeeper]

science is progressing so fast these days i would think a gay gene would have been found if one existed.

If you are going to use this line of reasoning, then we should stop all research on everything, because we should have all of the answers by now.

 

[linwood]

If you want, I will find the article again.

I want.
Please?

 

[BUDDY]

There is not a "straight" gene so why look for a "gay" gene?

The homosexual community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their sexual choice is a genetic one. To ask the question for proof of this is certainly reasonable, is it not?

Homosexual individuals (human) can be identified with brain scans -- MRIs & PET. There are visible anatomical differences in gay vs straight brains. These differences are clearly innate.

Please show your research for this. You can also tell through MRI and PET, people who have severe psychological problems, but that does not mean that they are born that way. This is simply a non-proof. Besides, I doubt any homosexual would bring this comparison up, because they do not want to compare their lifstyle to a psychological choice. That is the reason for the gene research question to begin with.

I think its funny how straight people like to think they understand homosexuality enough to discuss it. Its like me trying to argue what lightkeepers couch looks like. I've never seen it, so my argument is completely invalid.

Most recent history suggests that it is the gay community that wants us to understand and accept them. To not ask qiestions about homosexuality, is to not want to understand it. Have you tried asking what Lightkeepers couch looks like? I mean, if you want to know, ask.

If you are going to use this line of reasoning, then we should stop all research on everything, because we should have all of the answers by now.

I agree. Continued research is needed, but I believe on the genetic level, it has not been proven that infants are born with a predisposition for homosexuality. How it happens, I do not know, but it would be interesting to be able and learn more.

 

[Druidus]

Here you are, Linwood, and others:

http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm (It's the first article, although the others are interesting too)

• Brother studies. Dean Hamer et al collected data on 76 gay men and more than 1,000 of their male relatives. Homosexuality among maternal uncles and sons of maternal aunts was 4-6 times more common than in the general population. Paternal relatives showed much less difference. This suggests a genetic mechanism involving the X chromosome, the sex chromosome men inherit from their mothers. Hamer then studied 40 pairs of gay brothers. In 33 cases they found the brothers had the same five DNA markers in a region of the X chromosome called Xq28. The odds of this occurring by chance are less than 1 in 100.

• Brain studies. Having examined the brains of 19 gay men who had died of AIDS plus those of 16 heterosexual men, Simon LeVay found that a brain region known as INAH 3 was much smaller in the gays than in the straights. INAH 3 is located in the hypothalamus, a part of the brain thought to be associated with sexual behavior. The difference wasn't just due to AIDS; six of the heterosexual men had died of AIDS, too. This research has yet to be replicated and even if it is we don't know whether a small INAH 3 is the cause or effect of gayness.

• Bug studies. Two scientists, S.-D. Zhang and W. F. Odenwald, found that by tweaking the genes of fruit flies they could induce gay group gropes--five or more males flies would link together in chains or circles and lick each other's genitalia. Interesting, but it's a long reach from the sexual behavior of fruit flies to that of humans.

(http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950728b.html)

http://www.nel.edu/23_4/NEL230402L01_Oliva.htm

 

[Master Vigil]

Most recent history suggests that it is the gay community that wants us to understand and accept them. To not ask qiestions about homosexuality, is to not want to understand it. Have you tried asking what Lightkeepers couch looks like? I mean, if you want to know, ask.

If I asked lightkeeper what color her couch was, and she said light blue, how do I know shes right? I have to trust her. She could be lying, but why would she? It is very necessary to ask questions, and to try to understand. But alot of people don't even care what homosexuals say, they don't trust them. They just pass judgements. If people understood that perhaps homosexuals know what their talking about (being that they're homosexual and all), than there would be no hatred, confusion, or bigotry towards them. I'm not homosexual, so I don't pass judgements. I just trust them, love them, and understand that it isn't my place to tell them what or what isn't right to do. It isn't my job.

 

[Bastet]

The homosexual community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their sexual choice is a genetic one. To ask the question for proof of this is certainly reasonable, is it not?

The left-handed community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their left-handedness is a genetic one. To ask the question for proof of this is certainly reasonable, is it not?


:sarcastic


Just to clarify: no gene has ever been discovered to account for why some people are left-handed. Do we browbeat left-handed people and ask them why they have made the 'choice' to write with the 'wrong' hand? Do we ask them for rock-hard evidence to prove that their 'choice' is genetic? :bonk: