Gay Gene?

[The Voice of Reason]

For me, the bottom line is this:
I don't care if someone is "born gay" because of genetics, chooses to be gay because of personal preference, or any combination of both - because IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

It is immaterial to me what someone else does with another consenting adult (or adults). To claim that you know what God wants someone else to do with his/her body or life is extremely egocentric, and is the very root of bigotry. Whatever any of us choose to believe about God, we have NO RIGHT to impose our beliefs on others. If Atheists were in the majority, they would not be right to deny Theists the opportunity to pursue their beliefs. If Agnostics were in the majority, we would not be right to limit what Atheists or Theists could pursue.

Since we live in a democracy (at least, in America), the majority has the right to make the rules that govern society. That does NOT make the majority right - it only gives them the right to make the rules (and, the right to be wrong). Sadly, too many people do not seem to grasp the nuances of this fact. This is the very reason that all democracies must be ever vigilant against becoming a Theocracy. I love the fact that someone like Scott, NetDoc or Martha can worship in the church of their choice, without fear of reprisal or persecution by the government. I only wish that that priviledge extended to all citizens of my country.

TVOR

 

[BUDDY]

The left-handed community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their lef-handedness is a genetic one. To ask the question for proof of this is certainly reasonable, is it not?

Let's be clear here. I am not trying to brow beat anyone for any reason. I am simply trying to understand and learn why some homosexuals say that they are who they are because genetically they are structured that way. I am just asking for the evidence that is said to exist already. That is the question posed in this thread. If I am coming across as brow beating, I apologize. I thought I could ask these questions without anyone getting upset. I guess I was wrong.

They just pass judgements. If people understood that perhaps homosexuals know what their talking about (being that they're homosexual and all), than there would be no hatred, confusion, or bigotry towards them. I'm not homosexual, so I don't pass judgements. I just trust them, love them, and understand that it isn't my place to tell them what or what isn't right to do.

The insinuation being that anyone who questions why someone lives a certain way, is therefore unloving and finds them untrustworthy.

This logic makes no sense to me. We cast judgements on people all the time without knowing what it feels like to be them. Please try to explain a little clearer for us simple minded christian bigots.

 

[Green Gaia]

The homosexual community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their sexual choice is a genetic one. To ask the question for proof of this is certainly reasonable, is it not?

I've never claimed it to be genetic. Someone asks me why I'm gay, I say, "Don't know, just am." I know I didn't choose this. I think that is what you're mistaking "The homosexual community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their sexual choice is a genetic one". We say we didn't CHOOSE this, so they're must be something else going on beyond our control. One possibility is genetics. I know to some this area of research and looking for proof is important, but I really don't need a bunch of scientific mumbo-jumbo to tell me how and why I feel the way I do. It's not going to change how I am no matter what is proven one way or the other. I find it sad that the general BGLT community has felt forced to defend itself and fight for rights through the scientific community.

 

[BUDDY]

I've never claimed it to be genetic. Someone asks me why I'm gay, I say, "Don't know, just am." I know I didn't choose this. I think that's is what you're mistaking "The homosexual community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their sexual choice is a genetic one". We say we didn't CHOOSE this, so they're must be something else going on beyond our control. One possibility is genetics. I know to some this area of research and looking for proof is important, but I really don't need a bunch of scientific mumbo-jumbo to tell me how and why I feel the way I do. It's not going to change how I am no matter what I proven one way or the other. I find it sad that the general BGLT community has felt forced to defend itself and fight for rights through the scientific community.

Thank you for that Maize. I certainly do not mean to come across as questioning who you are. I was simply interested in the genetic part of this question, in relation to the topic if predisposition to homosexuality.

 

[Master Vigil]

I understand we pass judgements, but that doesn't make it right. You may not like a persons hair cut, but is it right to go up to them and tell them their hair is cut wrong and that you think they are going to hell because of it? Or perhaps if a person has no legs, is it right for you to tell them they aren't normal, and should never have lost their legs? Or perhaps if a person likes sardines, you can scoff and disagree all you like, but should you not allow them to eat sardines? We can question, we can disagree, but we should not feel that it is our job to dictate what others should or should no do. If you loved them, then the nature of their being should have no bearing on that love.

 

[Green Gaia]

I'll make it simple then: Nobody knows, but we're not ruling it out either.

 

[Bastet]

Let's be clear here. I am not trying to brow beat anyone for any reason. I am simply trying to understand and learn why some homosexuals say that they are who they are because genetically they are structured that way. I am just asking for the evidence that is said to exist already. That is the question posed in this thread. If I am coming across as brow beating, I apologize. I thought I could ask these questions without anyone getting upset. I guess I was wrong.

Yes, you are wrong: you're wrong in thinking that I'm upset here. I have much more important things to be upset about, and I personally couldn't give a toss what you or anyone else believes regarding homosexuality. I was merely trying to point out the ludicrousness of your statement. I bet if you asked a left-handed person why they are the way they are, you would get the same answer that Maize posted: "I don't know, I just am", or you might get "I was born that way", or "maybe it's genetic, since I didn't choose it". The difference is, people will take that at face value and not request that scientific evidence be dug out of the ether to back their statements up.

 

[Green Gaia]

Sexual Orientation, Part 1 http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3441&highlight=common

Sexual Orientation, Part 2 http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3488&highlight=common

What pah has linked to is important as well, those who are really interested in this subject should read them. I don't want to come off as completely unaware of the scientific research being done, it's just not my focus.

 

[BUDDY]

Listen, I could care less whether someone is gay or not. I have never "confronted" a gay person for who they are, and just because I am a christian doesn't mean that I hate anyone and everyone that is gay. I am just discussing the aspect of homosexuality that has to with genetic predisposition. The difference between this and what hand you write with, for me, has more to do with my religious beliefs, but that is not the topic of this thread.

 

[Master Vigil]

I wasn't talking about you EEWRED. I'm dreadfully sorry if it came across that way.

 

[Druidus]

Hold on, Eerwed, have you read the links that we posted? We are attempting to answer your question, as best we can, if you'll listen.

I could care less

Could you, then? That implies that you do care! Well then! That changes everything! Of course, what you probably meant to say, was "I couldn't care less".

(Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine )

 

[Saw11_2000]

People say that left handed people are due to birth or other trauma.

I'll need to ask my mom if she dropped me when I was young.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

EEWRED -

I don't think anyone on here necessarily wants to attack you, or the question (as posed). It is just that the very idea of questioning "Why" puts the homosexual community on the defensive. When you consider that they have been belittled, persecuted, beaten, killed, humiliated, denigrated, marginalized, demonized, and denied their rights at every possible opportunity, I think their reaction is understandable.

I am a heterosexual male (just turned 48 years old) with a wife and two kids - so don't think that I am waving the flag in self defense.

As to being labeled a "bigoted Christian" - that label is usually applied because the basis for the persecution of homosexuals is almost universally based on someone's view that "God want's me to help heal these sick people". Since these people do not feel the need to be healed, they tend to resent the doctor - no matter his intentions or reasons. The people that are left-handed don't need to be healed (although, when I was a kid, there were those that actually tried to "cure" them), and neither do homosexuals.

We could eliminate a great deal of grief and self-loathing in this world by simply conveying rights, equality, and love to those that we don't understand or agree with - or, we could continue to try to cure the lefties....

TVOR

 

[Quoth The Raven]

People say that left handed people are due to birth or other trauma.

I'll need to ask my mom if she dropped me when I was young.

Isn't it more to do with the dominant side of your brain?

 

[retrorich]

Gay Gene?

Gene is gay? But he looks so...err...normal!

 

[michel]

EEWRED -

I don't think anyone on here necessarily wants to attack you, or the question (as posed). It is just that the very idea of questioning "Why" puts the homosexual community on the defensive. When you consider that they have been belittled, persecuted, beaten, killed, humiliated, denigrated, marginalized, demonized, and denied their rights at every possible opportunity, I think their reaction is understandable.

I am a heterosexual male (just turned 48 years old) with a wife and two kids - so don't think that I am waving the flag in self defense.

As to being labeled a "bigoted Christian" - that label is usually applied because the basis for the persecution of homosexuals is almost universally based on someone's view that "God want's me to help heal these sick people". Since these people do not feel the need to be healed, they tend to resent the doctor - no matter his intentions or reasons. The people that are left-handed don't need to be healed (although, when I was a kid, there were those that actually tried to "cure" them), and neither do homosexuals.

We could eliminate a great deal of grief and self-loathing in this world by simply conveying rights, equality, and love to those that we don't understand or agree with - or, we could continue to try to cure the lefties....

TVOR

Well said there, TVOR, I'm much in the same position as you, a hetero married man with kids who (for me) actually often prefer the company of homosexuals than that of either very maco men, or very feminine women. Perhaps Homosexuals are kinder people (in general) because they have had to go through the trials and tribulations imposed on them by the public.

 

[Lycan]

Quote:There is not a "straight" gene so why look for a "gay" gene?
The homosexual community has claimed for quite some time that the reason for their sexual choice is a genetic one. To ask the question for proof of this is certainly reasonable, is it not?

My point was this, it is assumed that people that are heterosexual are born this way and there is not a specific gene proving this....so, why should the question of being born homosexual need to be proven with a specific gene.

 

[Draka]

You guys want a biology lesson...here it is. Everything about who we are is determined by the brain, whether that is affected by genes or rate of brain formation in the womb. The two sides of the brain and separate areas of the brain form at different rates. Now, for the subject of left-handedness, this is simple. The left-side of the brain controls the right side of the body and vice-versa. So, if the left-side of the brain stops forming before dominancy is established then the right side establishes the needed dominancy and hence...left handedness is a result. It rarley happens, but it does at times so that is why there are more right handed people than left handed people.

The same goes for sexuality, which is also a determined in the brain. If the area of the brain that determines heterosexual orientation stops forming before that is determined, for some reason or another, than another part takes over for that and hence...homosexuality.

This also explains ambidextrousness and bisexuality. For if they were started in one area and then the formation were cut off then another area picks it up and gives the ability for both to exist.

There is my biology and anatomy and physiology lesson for the day...enjoy.

 

[Druidus]

But what about people who learn to become ambidextrous (as I am trying to do)? Does one side of their brain grow? My juggling helps a bit with the learning, and if I learned it, it would help my juggling a lot.

 

[Draka]

Someone can always practice to be something else, that is called learning. What I am refering to is what people are naturally born with and as. It is quite possible that you already had a little ability to learn that because you were born with a little ambidextrousness anyway and are only just discovering it. Much the same way that homosexuals or bisexuals don't usually realize what they are until later in life because they are exposed to certain "norms" and therefore don't think of being anything else until later when things come to them with a little more sense to them. Society expects certain things and it only when we are older and wiser in our own natures that we make the effort to learn what we are. Some may always feel different and try to hide that until they realize that what they are is not wrong...just different than society's "norm"