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Gay Rights: Is it time to Boycott Firefox?

technomage

Finding my own way
What's your opinion on the boycotting Mozilla part particularly?
In this particular situation, I disagreed with the boycott. The donation was the act of an individual. Yes, that individual is associated with a company I like, whose products I use, but there is still a distinction between his individual actions and the company policy.

Had company policy changed, yes, I may have supported a boycott.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What's your opinion on the boycotting Mozilla part particularly?
Well the issue is over now, but I'm in favor of people doing it if people want to do it. I support boycotting for social causes, generally. It's a method for causing change.

I didn't read about it until the CEO got kicked out, so I'm not sure what I would do. I use Firefox and Chrome. Mozilla is liberal as an organization so it would be farther down my list of things to boycott, but I might have. I prefer Chrome anyway. I don't even use the Mozilla Google search bar, which is where they make their money.

If I ate fast food and factory farm stuff, I still wouldn't eat at Chick-fil-A currently or Domino's Pizza when the founder still owned it, due to how far-right the owners are and how much money they give to conservative campaigns. That's all orders of magnitude above Mozilla's issue of the CEO given $1k to oppose equal rights for gay people. But the point is, I'm definitely willing to boycott companies over social issues.

I ask because, basically, i agree with everything you said, but at the same time i wouldn't boycott Mozilla over this issue, had i been using it.
I guess the question is why, though. Are there certain things the guy could have contributed to that you might boycott Mozilla, like contributing to some political campaign to ban interracial marriage? Or do you avoid boycotting as a category? Is it specific to this not being severe enough, or general about views on boycotting as a practice?

Edit: I went back and read your previous post where you discussed some boycotting views. I do think it's a worse situation if a company is directly contributing to certain things, or if a CEO/founder is publicly making a big deal out of personal contributions, compared to quieter contributions like this case. But it's also the case that CEOs or owners can use their wealth and income from their position for causes that the users/customers don't necessarily support, and the CEO is generally the face of the company, and so it's reasonable that some users/customers would prefer that they don't play a role in directing money into that organization and then into that leader's stockpile for contributions, or give the image that they support that person.
 
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Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
I don't think we should boycott companies because of the personal politics of their CEOs. If it were shown that their personal politics were affecting the company, or if some of the company's profits were being used to support those politics, then you got yourself a valid grudge.

As it stands, this smacks too much of thought police for my liking.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't think we should boycott companies because of the personal politics of their CEOs. If it were shown that their personal politics were affecting the company, or if some of the company's profits were being used to support those politics, then you got yourself a valid grudge.

As it stands, this smacks too much of thought police for my liking.
I think people should boycott whatever they want to.

If there are two tea shops around here and the owner of one is unlikable or is involved in the community in ways I don't like, then naturally I'll avoid that store and go to the other one, if they're otherwise similar. I'd rather do business with people I like. And if people keep going to that other person's store, it'll support her or his continued role in the community either financially or with social capital, so it makes sense that people might not want to support that person through the store.

So why not apply that to the larger scale? If a company directly contributes to things I don't like, or if the founder/owner makes a ton of money from the business and then uses all that personal cash technically outside of the company to contribute to things I don't like, then I'll definitely boycott. If it's smaller like this, where the contribution was small and he probably isn't making as much money as CEO because it's a non-profit, the desire to boycott isn't as strong but it doesn't mean it's not there. If the most visible and highly paid employee of an organization is currently or potentially going to use some of that income for things that I think are pretty terrible, why not use another brand, especially if it's a negligible or nonexistent cost to me to do so?
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Next we will have some advocating for boycotting businesses for their political views. Of course that just might improve the economy. Just think, we would have business that support one political philosophy and the same type business established that supported the other political philosophy. Wow then we would have a large number of the same type business requiring more employees. Take clothing stores for instance progressive, conservative, libertarian, anarchist, socialist, communist, never-on-a-Sunday. Just think we could really expand the job force by having businesses that cater to every possible religion, political, ethnicity, hair color (natural or dyed), music choice, web-search engine, cat lovers, dog lovers..........
 

dust1n

Zindīq
It can be. It all depends on how one goes about it. Making it impossible for a person to financially support their family because you do not like their views strikes me as bigotry.

Is that what happened here?
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
It can be. It all depends on how one goes about it. Making it impossible for a person to financially support their family because you do not like their views strikes me as bigotry.

If bigotry has no place in society, doesn't it seem reasonable to also say that bigots have no place in society?
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
Someone lost his job.


Congratulations.

He's one of the founders of the company IIRC - he really didn't lose his livelihood, simply his position, and he chose to resign from the position.

CEOs are kind of unusual because most contracts will include language about their public image - because that's part of the job. Having a negative public image is very much a detriment to the company. Particularly a company that relies (in part) upon funding from donations.

Now, maybe in 2011 he didn't think that his donation would be part of a negative public image, but he was aware that it was public information due to CA's laws.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Next we will have some advocating for boycotting businesses for their political views. Of course that just might improve the economy. Just think, we would have business that support one political philosophy and the same type business established that supported the other political philosophy. Wow then we would have a large number of the same type business requiring more employees. Take clothing stores for instance progressive, conservative, libertarian, anarchist, socialist, communist, never-on-a-Sunday. Just think we could really expand the job force by having businesses that cater to every possible religion, political, ethnicity, hair color (natural or dyed), music choice, web-search engine, cat lovers, dog lovers..........

Many of those on the Right-wing side do this all the time.


Do you know the expression "tongue-in-cheek"?
 

technomage

Finding my own way
Do you know the expression "tongue-in-cheek"?
Do you know the expression "Before you remove the speck in another's eye, take out the plank in your own"?

Many folks on the Right Wing side are all about boycotts--there's no way to get exact figures, but it sure seems like there's a lot more coming from your side of the aisle.

If you want to make satirical comments about how dirty someone else's porch is, probably a good idea to sweep yours first.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Edit: I went back and read your previous post where you discussed some boycotting views. I do think it's a worse situation if a company is directly contributing to certain things, or if a CEO/founder is publicly making a big deal out of personal contributions, compared to quieter contributions like this case. But it's also the case that CEOs or owners can use their wealth and income from their position for causes that the users/customers don't necessarily support, and the CEO is generally the face of the company, and so it's reasonable that some users/customers would prefer that they don't play a role in directing money into that organization and then into that leader's stockpile for contributions, or give the image that they support that person.

I should've clarified a few things since i decided to share my opinion on the question i was asking. First, i think i just categorize this a little differently, rather than fundamentally disagree in anyway. We agree that there is an objectionable element here, and we agree that there is considerable difference between this scenario and other scenarios, but more specifically than that, i view this scenario as one where the company/organization as a whole is still overall a positive force, both in the specific regard of equal rights and in general (or at least it seems that way), despite doing a questionable thing that is more than okay to criticize and respond to in different ways from my perspective of course (because i do agree that political action rather than held beliefs warrant backlash, and particularly for example from within the organization like you had mentioned, despite of how limited and personal this political action was - i don't think what he did means nothing, and i do think it should have been considered given the importance of the position of CEO to the company's image). I don't usually feel inclined to boycott positive forces, but i sometimes stop using stuff for silly reasons, or for small inconveniences, so it's not that i think people shouldn't boycott. They can stop using it for no reason at all, so this is definitely more than enough reason, quite comfortably. It's more like the idea of an 'official' boycott in a sense, rather than just personal decisions to stop using the browser.

Context is partially relevant here. If someone came to me and said "Did you know that Mozilla made Eich CEO? I don't think i'm gonna use their browser anymore.", i'd probably just say "Cool.", and at most point out that the organization states support for equal rights generally just in case that wasn't known. In contrast, if someone came to me and asked me to boycott Mozilla because Eich was made CEO, like with OKCupid, i'd view that as unreasonable, due to lack of proportion in my view. There's a little difference between personally choosing to stop dealing with someone and trying to get others to do so too, the latter naturally requiring in my view more basis for such an action, or more powerful reasons in other words to warrant the garnering of opposition, so to speak. I don't use Mozilla, so i'm answering hypothetically based on the principle.

Basically, i was curious about your thoughts on the particular call for a boycott considering the known stance of the entire organization regarding equal rights, the extent and methods through which Eich opposed equal rights, and whether or not his employment in Mozilla played any considerable role in his expression of his opposition. I read the pop up OkCupid had put up, and i think it explains reasonably their investment in the issue, and i don't think like they did anything necessarily wrong or something. Generally, boycotts are a legitimate and highly effective method of expressing social opinion. In this case, my agreement/understanding of OkCupid's call for a boycott ends at understanding their investment. I wouldn't however do what they did or particularly view it as a proportionate response to this situation.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
First let me say that I am neither for or against same sex marriage as far as this post goes.
Now to the question:

Brendan Eich's donation to CA prop 8 was in 2008 and there are those that say he is not suited to be CEO of Moszilla because of this. Yet in 2004, 2008, and 2010 Obama was against same sex marriage, yet I did not hear a call from the gay/lesbian community and others that he was unfit to be president. Seems to be a little hypocrisy here. Or is it that some people are more equal than others?
Timeline of Obama’s ‘Evolving’ on Same-Sex Marriage - ABC News

Now, I have read all the post on this issue and I think that the following fairly well sums up what I think.
How did people find out that Mozilla’s CEO donated to support Prop 8? « Hot Air
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Now, I have read all the post on this issue and I think that the following fairly well sums up what I think.
How did people find out that Mozilla’s CEO donated to support Prop 8? « Hot Air

That's a really bad article. First of all, it makes the jump from donating to candidates to voting for candidates in terms of whats publicly available to people. Egregious. There's a reason why donations are disclosed and votes aren't.

Secondly: "Boycotting someone just for holding an opinion is typically reserved for the worst, most outre opinions in society."

It's okay to boycott a Nazi, but boycotting someone who donates to some particular cause doesn't make the one boycotted turn out to be a Nazi.
 
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