Gay

[Riverwolf]

A logical response

Such responses have been provided, and you ignored them.

Tell me, how well trained (whether formally or not) in logic are you, exactly?

 

[Marisa]

Adam and Eve were told not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. Point blank. They did not listen. They were punished for disobeying a command.

They had no knowledge. How could they understand the command?

Children go to Heaven, and so do children of God(adults). Those who didn't follow the law that was put in the past paid for it. I don't have the details of each and every persons life written on my hand, but if God did it, it was just. Death isn't a bad thing unless the dead one doesn't have God. Then it sucks.

Excellent response. You completely avoided my question, well done!

And silence isn't going to explain who God

Neither does this response.

is or argue on God's part, I can though.

Right.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What I'm not comprehending is how people are so wrapped into this forum thing to the point that unsaid rules and regulations have to be set.

That is communication in general. Society, as a whole, has a ton of unwritten rules and guidelines for communication.

being very blunt is much more professional or acceptable than not responding to a person at all out in the real world.

That certainly depends. I have found that in many cases it's better to say nothing, because being blunt in many cases can cause much unintended hurt, or having people think you are very cold and uncaring.

/Free/will/

That doesn't justify allowing slavery, killing children who can do nothing more than function on their most basic drives, or committing genocide.

Adam and Eve were told not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. Point blank. They did not listen. They were punished for disobeying a command.

But, if God is omniscient, he should have known they were going to do that. It's like leaving a piece of meat on the table when there is a hungry dog around, telling the dog not to eat it even though you know it's probably going to be eaten any ways, and then punishing the dog because the meat was eaten even though you knew it would be eaten.
And why were we punished by inheriting a sinful nature? He gave Adam and Eve a chance, but not us. That is hardly fair or just.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Death isn't a bad thing unless the dead one doesn't have God. Then it sucks.

Death is just death. It can be a tragedy, but it is a normal and natural part of life. It is necessary, it is needed, and to not die is no different than taking more than your fair share. We must all die so that future life can live.

And silence isn't going to explain who God is or argue on God's part, I can though.

Why can't God argue on his own behalf?

 

[izzy4games12]

Such responses have been provided, and you ignored them.

Tell me, how well trained (whether formally or not) in logic are you, exactly?

I used the word logic in one circumstance with a person who, well, isn't you. I'm not getting into ANOTHER argument about a different topic than I had originally intended to discuss. I voiced my opinion on homosexuality, not on creation, Buddhism, a proper ending to a conversation(?), Thor, Adam and Eve, slavery, and especially not your opinion on what logic is(or isn't). I'd say all these responses were a waste of my time, but I actually gained a bit of insight as to how much I don't care about people's misunderstandings of what I have had to say.

 

[izzy4games12]

They had no knowledge. How could they understand the command?


Excellent response. You completely avoided my question, well done!


Neither does this response.


Right.

No knowledge of good and evil*. Humans are given a moral conscience that tells them right from wrong. Not to mention that Eve was deceived into eating it, she didn't initially have to want or will to eat it.

And with you bringing up about two to three different questions a post, and going about 4 posts/10 minutes, it's a little hard to keep up :/

 

[Marisa]

I used the word logic in one circumstance with a person who, well, isn't you. I'm not getting into ANOTHER argument about a different topic than I had originally intended to discuss. I voiced my opinion on homosexuality, not on creation, Buddhism, a proper ending to a conversation(?), Thor, Adam and Eve, slavery, and especially not your opinion on what logic is(or isn't). I'd say all these responses were a waste of my time, but I actually gained a bit of insight as to how much I don't care about people's misunderstandings of what I have had to say.

Now you sound a bit butthurt. If that was you're "good bye cruel forum" speech, don't feel it necessary to respond to what I'm about to say. But not one person here has misunderstood anything you had to say. We've asked you questions which forced you to examine your beliefs, and you've offered some canned and repeatedly debunked apologetics. We understand your belief system. We've simply got questions about your belief system that you can't provide an acceptable answer to.

 

[Marisa]

No knowledge of good and evil*. Humans are given a moral conscience that tells them right from wrong. Not to mention that Eve was deceived into eating it, she didn't initially have to want or will to eat it.

If Eve was deceived, then was it "just" to punish her?

And with you bringing up about two to three different questions a post, and going about 4 posts/10 minutes, it's a little hard to keep up :/

That's the first thing you've said yet that makes any kind of logical sense. Yeah, I know it's a bit trying to keep up with 3 different people peppering you with questions. But apparently, that's just how it is.

 

[Jainarayan]

Adam and Eve were told not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. Point blank. They did not listen. They were punished for disobeying a command.

Children go to Heaven, and so do children of God(adults). Those who didn't follow the law that was put in the past paid for it. I don't have the details of each and every persons life written on my hand, but if God did it, it was just. Death isn't a bad thing unless the dead one doesn't have God. Then it sucks.

And silence isn't going to explain who God is or argue on God's part, I can though.

God knew they would disobey him. He knew he would punish them. He baited and entrapped them. Then after condemning them to a harsh life he said he would send someone at some indeterminate time in the future to pay for their sin. That's not the kind of deity I want to worship.

 

[Riverwolf]

I used the word logic in one circumstance with a person who, well, isn't you. I'm not getting into ANOTHER argument about a different topic than I had originally intended to discuss. I voiced my opinion on homosexuality, not on creation, Buddhism, a proper ending to a conversation(?), Thor, Adam and Eve, slavery, and especially not your opinion on what logic is(or isn't). I'd say all these responses were a waste of my time, but I actually gained a bit of insight as to how much I don't care about people's misunderstandings of what I have had to say.

Nothing is a waste of time when insight is gained from an experience, as is said.

Though if people aren't understanding what you have to say, isn't it worth exploring why that might be? Especially if, as your religion declares, this is a matter of eternal reward/punishment?

 

[izzy4games12]

That is communication in general. Society, as a whole, has a ton of unwritten rules and guidelines for communication.

Forums change the rules

That certainly depends. I have found that in many cases it's better to say nothing, because being blunt in many cases can cause much unintended hurt, or having people think you are very cold and uncaring.

That doesn't justify allowing slavery, killing children who can do nothing more than function on their most basic drives, or committing genocide.

But, if God is omniscient, he should have known they were going to do that. It's like leaving a piece of meat on the table when there is a hungry dog around, telling the dog not to eat it even though you know it's probably going to be eaten any ways, and then punishing the dog because the meat was eaten even though you knew it would be eaten.
And why were we punished by inheriting a sinful nature? He gave Adam and Eve a chance, but not us. That is hardly fair or just.

You're right, and especially when it comes to personal matters, but fortunately this isn't a personal matter to me in any way shape or form, so I don't worry about what my response "looks" like as long as I know what I'm saying. Viewing someone as cold and uncaring is a perspective from the person listening, not necessarily representative of what the speakers opinion is.

Those kids that were killed are probably looking down from Heaven thinking, "Thank God I didn't have anything more to deal with on Earth." To us it seems terrible because death is a great fear to many, the ultimate end of the physical.

God did know that they were going to do that, but in order for Him to keep his "gift" of free will, He could not force them to change their minds.

And to your dog analogy, if the dog was trained to follow commands, then it would know not to eat it. I saw a video on exactly this analogy but regarding feminism lol. But I guess the same rule applies: do as you're commanded and unrestricted(in forbidden) to do and there won't be any issues/problems/conflict.

God says that the sins of the fathers will be passed onto the children, and that that generational curse can only be broken by going to God. Literally what I personally had to do to save myself.

It might seem unfair to us, but that's our human perspective, not Gods. He knows what he's doing, seeing how he's got a plan that's continuously unfolding until the plan is finished. There's something our minds can't comprehend, kinda like thinking about how expansive the universe is if you get what I'm saying. We just don't know.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Those kids that were killed are probably looking down from Heaven thinking, "Thank God I didn't have anything more to deal with on Earth." To us it seems terrible because death is a great fear to many, the ultimate end of the physical.

That is no excuse to justify murder.

God did know that they were going to do that, but in order for Him to keep his "gift" of free will, He could not force them to change their minds.

If he knew they were going to do it, that isn't free will because no matter what they were going to do it. He knew they were going to do it, but he did nothing to avert it. He knew they were going to do it, and he punished them any ways.

God says that the sins of the fathers will be passed onto the children, and that that generational curse can only be broken by going to God. Literally what I personally had to do to save myself.

He also says the son shall not be punished for the sins of the father. Why the inconsistency and contradiction? And what is just about this arrangement? They sinned, yet we are punished? Is God a hardcore legalist?

It might seem unfair to us, but that's our human perspective, not Gods. He knows what he's doing, seeing how he's got a plan that's continuously unfolding until the plan is finished. There's something our minds can't comprehend, kinda like thinking about how expansive the universe is if you get what I'm saying. We just don't know.

So, because God knew Adam and Eve would sin, he did nothing to prevent, and knowing fully well they would sin he punished them, and allowed for sin to pass to us? If we were made to be like God, then we can assume that he has a very similar perspective; we were made in his image and likeness, afterall. This set up is not fair, it is not just, and I want nothing to do with a god who punishes people for things they know they are going to do any ways, who does nothing to fix the problem, and if action is taken it typically means killing myriads of people.

 

[izzy4games12]

Now you sound a bit butthurt. If that was you're "good bye cruel forum" speech, don't feel it necessary to respond to what I'm about to say. But not one person here has misunderstood anything you had to say. We've asked you questions which forced you to examine your beliefs, and you've offered some canned and repeatedly debunked apologetics. We understand your belief system. We've simply got questions about your belief system that you can't provide an acceptable answer to.

I'm not hurt or anything, I just feel like I'm playing ping pong with a wall while on here. The problem is you're asking a mere human. You're asking Izzy to answer your questions about God when the reality is God can't be fully understood, just loved and accepted. If God could be comprehended, then theology wouldn't be in existence and most likely the world wouldn't be so distraught over truth and false. In a similar light, if people didn't care so much about disproving Gods existence, there'd be a lot less headache worldwide. The answers to your questions will only put your mind at ease or turmoil but if you want a heartfelt answer, I couldn't give you one, but God can.

 

[izzy4games12]

Nothing is a waste of time when insight is gained from an experience, as is said.

Though if people aren't understanding what you have to say, isn't it worth exploring why that might be? Especially if, as your religion declares, this is a matter of eternal reward/punishment?

In all honesty, the only reason I care about religion forums and talking about God is because, as you said, there is eternal reward an punishment involved. But why I'm on here is because my heart hurts for people who don't "get(understand)" the basic truth of God. Whether or not people want to accept it or not is totally up to their free will.

I don't care about all the tough questions and answers that I might not understand since I know who God is and that's sufficient enough. I mean, everyone has their own path to God assuming they want Him, and thankfully mine included being slapped in the face with Gods name all over that slap. but for people who don't have it or see it so easy...I genuinely hurt for them because not only do they not want to comprehend, but the majority go as far as to get mad at the God concept when they never asked to be shown who he is. This hardens a persons heart and makes them even more open to accepting all different kinds of theories.

I'd like to say that if love to know why people people don't get what I'm saying, but the majority of the time it involves the person having not being taught the basic principles of God. Without that, an with everyone wanting to know the big answers, well of course there's going to be some kind of opposition.

 

[Marisa]

I'm not hurt or anything, I just feel like I'm playing ping pong with a wall while on here. The problem is you're asking a mere human. You're asking Izzy to answer your questions about God when the reality is God can't be fully understood,

Here's the thing YOU aren't getting . . . all I have to evaluate god's nature with are the skills of a human being. If god exists, he knows this. If the bible is a true account of the nature of this god, then given the skill set I possess, there's only one conclusion I can come up with about the nature of this god. And if god exists and is what you say he is, he know this.

just loved and accepted.

Building on what I said above, I can neither love nor accept a god that commits genocide and infanticide. I cannot love or accept a god who punishes people for being exactly what he created them to be. I can't do it.

If God could be comprehended,

God can be comprehended, but some people are loathe to do that. The phrase "god fearing" exists for a reason.

then theology wouldn't be in existence and most likely the world wouldn't be so distraught over truth and false.

I disagree, I think we would still have the drive to know as many true things as possible.

In a similar light, if people didn't care so much about disproving Gods existence,

No one here is trying to disprove god's existence. You've presented a claim: that the god described in the bible exists and you worship it. All we are doing is examining that claim.

there'd be a lot less headache worldwide. The answers to your questions will only put your mind at ease or turmoil but if you want a heartfelt answer, I couldn't give you one, but God can.

If god can, he hasn't chosen to do so. In light of this fact, it seems reasonable to live my life as if he doesn't exist.

 

[izzy4games12]

Here's the thing YOU aren't getting . . . all I have to evaluate god's nature with are the skills of a human being. If god exists, he knows this. If the bible is a true account of the nature of this god, then given the skill set I possess, there's only one conclusion I can come up with about the nature of this god. And if god exists and is what you say he is, he know this.


Building on what I said above, I can neither love nor accept a god that commits genocide and infanticide. I cannot love or accept a god who punishes people for being exactly what he created them to be. I can't do it.


God can be comprehended, but some people are loathe to do that. The phrase "god fearing" exists for a reason.


I disagree, I think we would still have the drive to know as many true things as possible.


No one here is trying to disprove god's existence. You've presented a claim: that the god described in the bible exists and you worship it. All we are doing is examining that claim.


If god can, he hasn't chosen to do so. In light of this fact, it seems reasonable to live my life as if he doesn't exist.

Well as I have done, I would recommend you do as we: Just ask God for an understanding. Even if you don't believe nor ever want to believe, just a small sincere wanting of understanding can change the world around you once it's nurtured.

Besides that, I'm done really, mostly because of the large amounts of responses I've had to read through haha.

I empathize with everyone that's responded and I understand that ones understanding is all based on what you have been raised around, taught, and observed. But I'm just gonna agree to disagree here.

But remember!!!!! God loves ya!

 

[Marisa]

Well as I have done, I would recommend you do as we: Just ask God for an understanding. Even if you don't believe nor ever want to believe, just a small sincere wanting of understanding can change the world around you once it's nurtured.

Did you miss the posts where I said I've done that? I did that for 3 years, and got nothing in return. It may be difficult for you to believe, but it's true. Others have that same story.

Besides that, I'm done really, mostly because of the large amounts of responses I've had to read through haha.

That's fine.

I empathize with everyone that's responded and I understand that ones understanding is all based on what you have been raised around, taught, and observed. But I'm just gonna agree to disagree here.

That's fine, too.

But remember!!!!! God loves ya!

That's doubtful.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If God could be comprehended, then theology wouldn't be in existence and most likely the world wouldn't be so distraught over truth and false.

Then why does god not make himself comprehendable to reduce the distraughtness of the world?

God can't be fully understood, just loved and accepted.

Why should I love a god who slaughters millions of people when he could have spared them? And I will not accept an entity as god who condones slavery.

but the majority go as far as to get mad at the God concept

How can you be mad at something you don't believe exists? It is illogical.

I empathize with everyone that's responded and I understand that ones understanding is all based on what you have been raised around, taught, and observed. But I'm just gonna agree to disagree here.

I was born and raised into the Christian religion. However, it was when I read the Bible for myself, without anyone else telling me how to read it, that I realized there is much that I do not like in it.

 

[gsa]

Believing in something doesn't make it true. Observable results are what keeps a theology going for a person. I wonder when the last time was that Thor helped someone in a time of need.

I am sure that people who believe in Thor can point to his actions. We know that Muslims heap praise on Allah for miracles. Here is an article describing personal visions of Norse gods. Billy Graham says that Yahweh can appear to people in visions and dreams today. I see no reason to accept the claims of Christians on this point while denying the claims of Heathens. Little more than a double standard and special pleading.

 

[JoStories]

I used the word logic in one circumstance with a person who, well, isn't you. I'm not getting into ANOTHER argument about a different topic than I had originally intended to discuss. I voiced my opinion on homosexuality, not on creation, Buddhism, a proper ending to a conversation(?), Thor, Adam and Eve, slavery, and especially not your opinion on what logic is(or isn't). I'd say all these responses were a waste of my time, but I actually gained a bit of insight as to how much I don't care about people's misunderstandings of what I have had to say.

You said you were a host, although I am not entirely sure what that means exactly. What I do know is that most adults can converse here without rancor and can disagree amicably. Your remark here makes me think of my 12 year old granddaughter. You said in another post you like to be blunt as its more effective, which I cannot even begin to agree with as in my path, kindness is much more effective over all. However, because you seem to like bluntness so well, I will be blunt. Grow up.