Gender Fluidity

[SomeRandom]

Extremely rare.

But does exist. The rarity of a biological phenomenon does not mean we should ignore its existence.

Also there are some intersex conditions that are statistically more likely to occur in our species than redheads, fun fact.
Like I think XY Androgen Sensitivity Syndrome (born with XY chromosomes but also born completely female on the outside, if you catch my drift) is a fairly common biological phenomenon all things considered and may even be underreported in some areas.
Since the person is raised as a girl and it’s only at the onset of puberty that they find out they have a Y chromosome. Usually they are given hormones to complete the puberty process. Or they may elect not to, it’s their body after all

Though infertility or other fertility issues are common with intersex conditions, like always there are exceptions to the rule
Swyer Syndrome Born with XY chromosomes but are also born externally and indeed internally female. Such folk are also typically born with external gonads that are surgically removed at birth so the testosterone doesn’t interfere with puberty later on. (Which again is helped along with the intervention of our good friend, medical science.)
Since folks have the right internal equipment so to speak, with the help of egg donation they are actually able to become pregnant. Though C Section is the preferred delivery method in such scenarios, since there are more risks involved with their pregnancies overall. But eh, life is a risk I suppose.

This is why sex is not considered a binary system by anyone in the field of biology or genetics. I mean a binary by definition is two outcomes full stop. Like the binary code doesn’t just have a random 3 in there. If you follow?
So in genetics/biology it is understood thusly
“Sex characteristics are distributed through bimodal means in humans.”

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

May I ask how old you are?

33 years old.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

But does exist. The rarity of a biological phenomenon does not mean we should ignore its existence.

Also there are some intersex conditions that are statistically more likely to occur in our species than redheads, fun fact.
Like I think XY Androgen Sensitivity Syndrome (born with XY chromosomes but also born completely female on the outside, if you catch my drift) is a fairly common biological phenomenon all things considered and may even be underreported in some areas.
Since the person is raised as a girl and it’s only at the onset of puberty that they find out they have a Y chromosome. Usually they are given hormones to complete the puberty process. Or they may elect not to, it’s their body after all

Though infertility or other fertility issues are common with intersex conditions, like always there are exceptions to the rule
Swyer Syndrome Born with XY chromosomes but are also born externally and indeed internally female. Such folk are also typically born with external gonads that are surgically removed at birth so the testosterone doesn’t interfere with puberty later on. (Which again is helped along with the intervention of our good friend, medical science.)
Since folks have the right internal equipment so to speak, with the help of egg donation they are actually able to become pregnant. Though C Section is the preferred delivery method in such scenarios, since there are more risks involved with their pregnancies overall. But eh, life is a risk I suppose.

This is why sex is not considered a binary system by anyone in the field of biology or genetics. I mean a binary by definition is two outcomes full stop. Like the binary code doesn’t just have a random 3 in there. If you follow?
So in genetics/biology it is understood thusly
“Sex characteristics are distributed through bimodal means in humans.”

Those are medical disorders caused by genetic errors and so on, not other sexes. I don't know why people think they are or categorize them as such.

"Or they may elect not to, it’s their body after all"

Sure, if they want to have crippling health problems and die pretty soon, yes.

 

[Ella S.]

Those are medical disorders caused by genetic errors and so on, not other sexes. I don't know why people think they are or categorize them as such.

Because, due to the change in chromosomes and anatomy, they actually cannot be classified as either of the binary sexes. Is someone with the chromosomes XXY a man, because they have XY chromosomes, or a woman, because they have XX chromosomes? If someone has XY chromosomes but female anatomy, to the point that they don't know they have XY chromosome and are assigned female at birth, are they a man because of their chromosomes or a woman because of their assigned gender and anatomy?

The answer in both cases is that they're somewhere in-between the "male" and "female" sexes, hence they are "intersex." Any binary answer you give for either scenario is simply inaccurate.

"Or they may elect not to, it’s their body after all"

Sure, if they want to have crippling health problems and die pretty soon, yes.

That's not a serious risk in most cases.

 

[SomeRandom]

Those are medical disorders caused by genetic errors and so on, not other sexes. I don't know why people think they are or categorize them as such.

I didn’t say they were categorised as other sexes. Unless intersex is it’s own category? Sorry it’s been a while since biology class.
Regardless I used them as examples of the “system” not being a binary one.
Like there are folks who are born genetically male (XY chromosomes) but are also born with external and/or internal female “equipment.” Is this not a known phenomenon to occur?
And the opposite can also occur in our species. True or false?
Well?
And yes these are categorised as genetic errors, but I’m not going to pretend such phenomenon doesn’t exist either. We need to treat them with appropriate medical care as much as we are able to

"Or they may elect not to, it’s their body after all"
Sure, if they want to have crippling health problems and die pretty soon, yes.

People do all sorts of things against medical advice. Even to their own detriment unfortunately. I can’t stop them
Consent is needed in all things. Even if I think it best to follow the advice of medical professionals in pretty much all scenarios

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Because, due to the change in chromosomes and anatomy, they actually cannot be classified as either of the binary sexes. Is someone with the chromosomes XXY a man, because they have XY chromosomes, or a woman, because they have XX chromosomes? If someone has XY chromosomes but female anatomy, to the point that they don't know they have XY chromosome and are assigned female at birth, are they a man because of their chromosomes or a woman because of their assigned gender and anatomy?

The answer in both cases is that they're somewhere in-between the "male" and "female" sexes, hence they are "intersex." Any binary answer you give for either scenario is simply inaccurate.



That's not a serious risk in most cases.

How 'bout we give them the same treatment we do trans people and class them by how they actually perceive themselves and live their lives? We can usually guess how the person will end up identifying and living by what condition they have. Like in the the examples Some Random used, those are women. They may have a male karyotype but their biology unfolded in such a way that they ended up women. It's similar to what happens to transsexuals (which some believe is a sort of intersex disorder itself).

Since when is never going through puberty a healthy option?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I didn’t say they were categorised as other sexes. Unless intersex is it’s own category? Sorry it’s been a while since biology class.
Regardless I used them as examples of the “system” not being a binary one.
Like there are folks who are born genetically male (XY chromosomes) but are also born with external and/or internal female “equipment.” Is this not a known phenomenon to occur?
And the opposite can also occur in our species. True or false?
Well?
And yes these are categorised as genetic errors, but I’m not going to pretend such phenomenon doesn’t exist either. We need to treat them with appropriate medical care as much as we are able to


People do all sorts of things against medical advice. Even to their own detriment unfortunately. I can’t stop them
Consent is needed in all things. Even if I think it best to follow the advice of medical professionals in pretty much all scenarios

Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Left Coast]

How 'bout we give them the same treatment we do trans people and class them by how they actually perceive themselves and live their lives?

I agree. Which means intersex/non-binary people who actually perceive themselves that way ought to be treated as such.

 

[SomeRandom]

Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.

No problem

 

[Ella S.]

How 'bout we give them the same treatment we do trans people and class them by how they actually perceive themselves and live their lives? We can usually guess how the person will end up identifying and living by what condition they have. Like in the the examples Some Random used, those are women. They may have a male karyotype but their biology unfolded in such a way that they ended up women. It's similar to what happens to transsexuals (which some believe is a sort of intersex disorder itself).

This is a false dichotomy. People can (and should) be socialized according to their gender identity. Gender is real. That doesn't erase the fact that biological sex is also real and a useful (if not necessary) category in biology and medicine.

 

[syo]

For me, I accept ''she, her, they, them".

 

[Aštra’el]

Online… I am a dangerous orb of data and memories sharing its thoughts. The “me” that is operating this body unleashes upon the world, expressing itself. It finds a way to reach across great distances of time and space to touch the minds of people now and in the future, to achieve its aims.

Perturbator- “Lilith”

Take RF. “Aštra’el”… people assume is male. Masculine. Man. “Ashtara”… people assumed was female. Feminine. Woman. How limiting. They can make whatever assumptions they like. It is not important in this environment. Maybe I exploit those perceptions… maybe I won’t. It does not matter. Here- and within any cyber realm- I am thoughts… transcending flesh and blood.

“The Outer Form is not the Essence.”

I will always remember who it was I first heard that from. What an incredible force of nature that mind was! The face I wore was Revanchist in those days… in another time and place. Not that it matters. This saying has served me as a valuable lesson about religion and Weltanschauung… but it can apply to other things as well, including this. Here… people can experience the Essence of who I am, without being distracted by the Outer Form.

Call it what you Will.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

There's help for an excess of gender fluidity.

Why is it called Depends?

"Should I buy this underwear brand?"
"Depends on if you're potty trained or not."

 

[Revoltingest]

Why is it called Depends?

"Should I buy this underwear brand?"
"Depends on if you're potty trained or not."

Perhaps cuz one can depend upon them?

 

[Secret Chief]

unleashes

ooh get you, with your gender issues

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Yes, that makes sense for me. In my childhood, the ideas of what "masculine" and "feminine" meant were much more rigid. It wasn't fluid. I'm old enough that I grew up in an environment that was sort of permissive of "girls" acting like "boys" and "boys" acting like "girls" but the notion of behaviors and personality traits belonging to each was still a thing. And because I had interests for the "wrong" sex, well... while my parents were accepting of it, others were often not.

Like you, I didn't give a crap about conforming to others expectations of me because I happened to have been born with a certain set of genitals. I didn't feel that mattered (and still don't). But what I felt about it was in some respects irrelevant when I lived in a culture that did keep insisting that mattered. This is part of why I feel tolerance of diversity and teaching about that diversity here is so important.

I've found out that a lot (though of course not all) of people on the autism spectrum such as myself are more likely to be agender, genderfluid, nonbinary or other trans identities.

Gender, like so much social constructs, feels like an inauthentic performance. A mask I do not particularly value except as a means to accomplish everyday interactions.

Calling me masculine or feminine or man or woman doesn't evoke much by way of feeling for me, except feeling like I should preserve that mask.

 

[Shaul]

I am wondering if the current zeitgeist of gender identity will be looked back upon in the future similarly to how we look back on the eugenics movement with abhorrence and horror. The eugenicist really thought they were right too.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Can you not? Of all the false dichotomies to soil the carpet with...

 

[Secret Chief]

The eugenicist really thought they were right too.

And they were/are supporters of scientific racism. Quite the comparison.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I am wondering if the current zeitgeist of gender identity will be looked back upon in the future similarly to how we look back on the eugenics movement with abhorrence and horror. The eugenicist really thought they were right too.

Comparing LGBT identities to [x thing with measurable harm] certainly hasn't gone out of style despite how woefully anemic an argument as a reactionary appeal to emotion it is.