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Gender Roles

Sees

Dragonslayer
I think in a limited fashion they are smart to integrate. Think bouncer at an understaffed night spot with frequently rowdy visitors. At home it's up for the people to figure out amongst themselves in my opinion. Other people and non-people should be focused on more important things.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I do not believe in specific gender roles other than pregnancy. Men can not take the role of pregnancy. Women and men can adjust to all other roles.
 
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sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I agree with what others have written. Only those things that are totally determined by biology are gender specific. Everything else is up to the people involved to work out.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I do not believe in specific gender roles other than pregnancy. Men can not take the role of pregnancy. Women and men can adjust to all other roles.

Actually, trans men can and have become pregnant, given birth, and have breastfed their children.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I was specifically talking about the XY genetically sequenced human but you knew that.

I know you were attempting to simplify sex and gender. There are people with ambiguous genitalia, inter sexed people, and people with the XY chromosomal makeup who have female genitalia.

I think they should not be made invisible for any discussion that wishes to reduce sex and gender down to what's between the legs.
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
To be honest, I'm kinda in the center of this issue.

On one hand, I realize the world is changing and that traditional gender roles (as well as identity) are changing. I think that's a great thing, as it gives people more possibilities and chances in their lives.

On the other hand, I can also see why some people are so adamant on keeping traditional gender roles. In their minds, it's the foundation of society as we know it, and it has kept society together for so long.

In my opinion, it's all about personal choice. If one wishes to follow traditional gender roles (whether male or female), then they should by all means do so. However, if one wishes to not follow traditional gender roles (whether male or female), then they should by all means do so.
 

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I was specifically talking about the XY genetically sequenced human but you knew that.

I know you were attempting to simplify sex and gender. There are people with ambiguous genitalia, inter sexed people, and people with the XY chromosomal makeup who have female genitalia.

I think they should not be made invisible for any discussion that wishes to reduce sex and gender down to what's between the legs.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I know you were attempting to simplify sex and gender. There are people with ambiguous genitalia, inter sexed people, and people with the XY chromosomal makeup who have female genitalia.

I think they should not be made invisible for any discussion that wishes to reduce sex and gender down to what's between the legs.

It is not possible to only have the XY chromosomal makeup and have female genitalia unless surgery is better than I am aware.

Hermaphrodites which have both XX and XY chromosomes are born with both male and female genitalia and can possibly have a child. They may identify as either male or female but genetically are both. I am unclear if the XXY genetic form of our species can have a child or not but I wouldn't be surprised.
 

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
It is not possible to only have the XY chromosomal makeup and have female genitalia unless surgery is better than I am aware.

Hermaphrodites which have both XX and XY chromosomes are born with both male and female genitalia and can possibly have a child. They may identify as either male or female but genetically are both. I am unclear if the XXY genetic form of our species can have a child or not but I wouldn't be surprised.

Intersex is preferable to hermaphrodites as the latter term means something in the animal world that doesn't exist in the human biology.

Intersex people can be XX/XY or can be XXY, XXX, XYY, etc. They are not both "XX" and "XY" (X and Y are the two separate chromosomes, they pair up, usually, or trisomy occurs.) There may be some form of chimerism where people can have both XX and XY but I'm not familiar with it, and it wouldn't be the same as being intersexed that I can imagine. One of our more science-y people may be here.

Regardless, Mystic's point is not that non-XX people can give birth (XXX are typically sterile IIRC), it's that not all XX people are women. So that gender and sex are not synonymous with each other.

Now XY individuals who have androgen insensitivity can indeed have female genitalia although functionality is another matter. Also surgery is indeed a lot better than you think - MtF surgery is incredibly successful and based on a recent thread I was reading elsewhere, it is entirely possible to have vaginal intercourse with someone who has had constructive surgery and be completely unaware that that vagina is constructed. If you're referring to internal sexual organs then you're talking about something different than genitalia.

Tl;dr: Gender not sex was the main point of Mystic's reply to you and chromosomes work differently than you think.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Do you believe there should be strict gender roles in daily settings? If so, why? And what are they?

I believe it's personal choice, or a choice based on mutual agreement if it's in a partnership, but certainly not in any real 'strict' (uncompromising) way.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Do you believe there should be strict gender roles in daily settings?

God, no. Part of the reason why St. Joan of Arc was burnt at the stake was because she defied the gender roles of her time and it was a scandal to her enemies that she insisted on wearing men's attire, even off the battlefield (the common people of France and her comrades in arms loved her, though), and she is one of my patron Saints.
 
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bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Intersex is preferable to hermaphrodites as the latter term means something in the animal world that doesn't exist in the human biology.

Intersex people can be XX/XY or can be XXY, XXX, XYY, etc. They are not both "XX" and "XY" (X and Y are the two separate chromosomes, they pair up, usually, or trisomy occurs.) There may be some form of chimerism where people can have both XX and XY but I'm not familiar with it, and it wouldn't be the same as being intersexed that I can imagine. One of our more science-y people may be here.

Regardless, Mystic's point is not that non-XX people can give birth (XXX are typically sterile IIRC), it's that not all XX people are women. So that gender and sex are not synonymous with each other.

Now XY individuals who have androgen insensitivity can indeed have female genitalia although functionality is another matter. Also surgery is indeed a lot better than you think - MtF surgery is incredibly successful and based on a recent thread I was reading elsewhere, it is entirely possible to have vaginal intercourse with someone who has had constructive surgery and be completely unaware that that vagina is constructed. If you're referring to internal sexual organs then you're talking about something different than genitalia.

Tl;dr: Gender not sex was the main point of Mystic's reply to you and chromosomes work differently than you think.

Mystic can type for herself and My claim was specific to XY only and she agreed she knew that.
 
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