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Gene-editing helps man see again

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Please do not intentionally misinterpret my questions as putting words in your mouth. I did not. I asked a question. An important one I think.

Why Rob is also an important question too. One that people claiming miracles should be able to easily answer if they "know" something is a miracle.

Just want to make sure that you understand this is a Christian perspective... it may be redundant, but just want to make sure it is established:

So... as to Rob:

So you see the death of the first wife as punishment for his lack of faith?

The answer is no. If there is penicillin to eradicate a disease and one doesn't take it and the person dies, it isn't a punishment. It is simply that one didn't apply the remedy.
What is so special about him that women have to suffer or die for him?

This threw me for a loop. I have no idea where this comes from, how it is applicable, what is the root for this statement. Unless you can rephrase it better... (I can't express emotions with words so if you can please read it with a soft tone and a questioning face))

I do not have guidelines to determine if something is or is not a miracle. That is the point. Who does. You claim things are miracles, so you must know. You must have the guidelines.

Something that violates the natural course of nature. In other words, a cancer in spontaneous regression is a process of time - natural. A cancer that is there one moment and gone the next is a miracle - not the natural course.

Or, as my friend Cindy some 50 years ago, had a skiing accident that broke her back. 3 times they tried to bridge it with no success. Her diagnosis, "don't lift anything bigger than 5lbs, don't have babies and live with it the rest of your life". She went to what is called "a healing service" in complete pain. She goes back to her hotel room with nothing different. She lies down in tears and crying. From there she rolls down on the floor crying and she is crying she realized... "i don't have any pain".

She goes back to John Hopkins hospital and after ex-rays declared "We have no idea how this happened but there is no evidence of a broken back. We can only say it is a miracle". It violated the course of nature. I've lost contact with her but not before she had two babies and pushed a lawnmower joyfully.


Are you fine with that definition?
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Just want to make sure that you understand this is a Christian perspective... it may be redundant, but just want to make sure it is established:
I just want to insure that my words are not being misrepresented. It is YOUR Christian perspective unless you are claiming to speak for all Christians.
So... as to Rob:



The answer is no. If there is penicillin to eradicate a disease and one doesn't take it and the person dies, it isn't a punishment. It is simply that one didn't apply the remedy.
How did you determine that the remedy was not taken by someone involved with first wife or is it only what Rob does or does not do that determines outcomes. Say for instance, the dead wife's sister had prayed for her to be healed and saved? It seems that there is a lot of information that is unavailable to us to make any sort of valid determination of the miracle status of alleged miracles.

This threw me for a loop. I have no idea where this comes from, how it is applicable, what is the root for this statement. Unless you can rephrase it better... (I can't express emotions with words so if you can please read it with a soft tone and a questioning face))
Why? You said that Rob was affirmed with faith for the second wife. Wanting to know why you thought the first would die for Rob's apparent failure of faith is a reasonable question. That is implied in your scenario.
Something that violates the natural course of nature. In other words, a cancer in spontaneous regression is a process of time - natural. A cancer that is there one moment and gone the next is a miracle - not the natural course.
So, regressions only happen over time and you are fully aware of how long they must take to occur. I didn't know that. So no regressions where one exam shows cancer and then next does not. I am not as well versed in the medical science regarding cancer as you seem to be.

So anything that is uncommon or unexpected is a violation of the natural course of nature? I did not know that.
Or, as my friend Cindy some 50 years ago, had a skiing accident that broke her back. 3 times they tried to bridge it with no success. Her diagnosis, "don't lift anything bigger than 5lbs, don't have babies and live with it the rest of your life". She went to what is called "a healing service" in complete pain. She goes back to her hotel room with nothing different. She lies down in tears and crying. From there she rolls down on the floor crying and she is crying she realized... "i don't have any pain".

She goes back to John Hopkins hospital and after ex-rays declared "We have no idea how this happened but there is no evidence of a broken back. We can only say it is a miracle". It violated the course of nature. I've lost contact with her but not before she had two babies and pushed a lawnmower joyfully.


Are you fine with that definition?
I had a cat that got its back broken. I took to the vet. He told me he would keep it overnight, but it would have to be put down. The next day the vet called and told me to come get the cat, it was recovered. He had the x-ray to show the back had been broken, but it "fixed itself". Something he was aware of in very rare cases, but had never expected to see himself. I didn't even pray for the cat.

What I understand, based on what you are telling me, is that the only criteria for naming something a miracle is if is dramatic, happens fast (not sure what fast means), and we do not have immediate reasons for the cause of the event, then it is a miracle.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Obviously, you haven't studied the bible ;)
Horse manure

And nice way to take things out of context (not to mention, I don't think you can find any spiritually assured and matured Christians who would want to remove that mountain... we love mountains.
I don't see why it would be a problem, you could move the mountain for the purpose of the demonstration then move it back again... if your empty claims are true that is.

In my opinion.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Horse manure


I don't see why it would be a problem, you could move the mountain for the purpose of the demonstration then move it back again... if your empty claims are true that is.

In my opinion.

If you had studied the Bible, you would know: Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say,This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

It appears you haven't studied the Bible.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I just want to insure that my words are not being misrepresented. It is YOUR Christian perspective unless you are claiming to speak for all Christians.

Fair enough.

How did you determine that the remedy was not taken by someone involved with first wife or is it only what Rob does or does not do that determines outcomes. Say for instance, the dead wife's sister had prayed for her to be healed and saved? It seems that there is a lot of information that is unavailable to us to make any sort of valid determination of the miracle status of alleged miracles.

I guess if you want to construct some sort of reason why it wasn't a miracle, you could imagine that scenario.

Why? You said that Rob was affirmed with faith for the second wife. Wanting to know why you thought the first would die for Rob's apparent failure of faith is a reasonable question. That is implied in your scenario.

Not really. He, himself, will tell you he had no idea of the power that was available through prayer.

So, regressions only happen over time and you are fully aware of how long they must take to occur. I didn't know that. So no regressions where one exam shows cancer and then next does not. I am not as well versed in the medical science regarding cancer as you seem to be.

So anything that is uncommon or unexpected is a violation of the natural course of nature? I did not know that.

I suppose, again, that if you wanted to construct a scenario that would satisfy you that it wasn't a miracle.. you could do that.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
Fair enough.



I guess if you want to construct some sort of reason why it wasn't a miracle, you could imagine that scenario.



Not really. He, himself, will tell you he had no idea of the power that was available through prayer.



I suppose, again, that if you wanted to construct a scenario that would satisfy you that it wasn't a miracle.. you could do that.
You seem steadfast to avoid answering my questions. I am not attempting to construct alternative explanations for the claims of miracle, but rather, what you or others know in order to make that claim. Thank you for your responses. They have given me much to think about.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You seem steadfast to avoid answering my questions. I am not attempting to construct alternative explanations for the claims of miracle, but rather, what you or others know in order to make that claim. Thank you for your responses. They have given me much to think about.

I guess I just don't know whether they are sincere questions. It seems like no matter what I say there is always "but" and I can't discern whether it is a real question or not.

If they were... happy to answer.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
I guess I just don't know whether they are sincere questions. It seems like no matter what I say there is always "but" and I can't discern whether it is a real question or not.

If they were... happy to answer.
Is it insincere to ask how someone knows something? If I claim something is made of gold, it is not insincere to ask how I know that.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Is it insincere to ask how someone knows something? If I claim something is made of gold, it is not insincere to ask how I know that.

Then let me answer to the best of my capacity.

if you make a study in prayer, there are many types of prayers. Jesus even mentioned a prayer that was not useful when he said,

Matt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

There are effective prayers and ineffective prayers (at least in the Christian understanding)

Rob took theological courses that included healing, prayer, believers authority and faith. These courses changed his understanding completely. As a representative of "his immediate blood family", he would have no problem with saying that they were wholly incapable of effective prayers during his first wife's horrible situation.

But when the second wife had her report from the doctor, it was totally different. Faith was there, understanding was there, and a holy anger was there that wasn't available before for lack of knowledge. As it says in Hosea 4;6 - my people perish for lack of knowledge.

So, I don't think the thought of "other people" will fit in this scenario.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you had studied the Bible, you would know: Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say,This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

It appears you haven't studied the Bible.
Yes I know full well that when the dogmatic Jesus met the gullible He was like you can move mountains at your command, but then when He met anyone who showed the first sign of logical thinking in demanding He backed up His tall claims He preferred to rant about how evil they were for being independent investigators of reality.

Talk about a con man.

In my opinion.
 
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