gene for homosexuality

[RitalinO.D.]

To state examples of supposed "straight" people turning gay as some form of evidence is lacking. You have no way to know how that person felt about his sexuality before he "turned" gay, and I use the term turned very loosely. Lots of gay people (and I've known a few that have done this) go through great pains to "act" straight, for lack of a better term, to include having biological families. Unfortunately people do this because of the societal stigma on homosexuality. Of course there are people that have sexual feelings for both genders. This is actually very common.

The way I see it, the only choices homosexual people have is whether to live inside or outside the closet. It's really sad that this turns out to be a very tough decision.

There are programs all over TV on this topic. People going through gender reassignment surgury. Yer gonna tell me someone is going to go through that extremely painful process cause one day they woke up and decided to be gay?

 

[Iasion]

Gday,

Until there is hard evidence on whether it is genetics that is the cause of homosexuality I will not say that it is.

The evidence is quite clear it is genetic.

But on the other hand its not possible to prove something does not exist scientifically so I still will never say for sure the other way around.

So, you have no evidence for your view ?

That being said my stance is that it is by choice.

Your stance is wrong.
It is not possible to choose sexual orientation.

If YOU think it is then please tell us about YOUR choice -
when did you choose?
how did you make your choice ?
did you try all types of sexuality before you chose ?

I you look back in history homosexual activities were always as a choice of exploration, something they haven't tried before, simply another passion to experience.

Wrong.
History shows people did NOT chose.
That's why there are NO accounts of people CHOSING their sexuality.

For example Alexander the great. I am not an expert on the guy but from what I've read and heard by fairly accurate sources he started screwing around with men after he conquered nearly all the known world.

Wrong.

In todays world homosexuality is primarily seen from the product of a abusive house, possibly dead mother, or simply want more variety.

Complete and utter nonsense.
How sad that you know NOTHING about homosexuality.

You might say this is bogus but look around, the straights turn into gays, than into buys than maybe juggle the two around.

Rubbish.
People do NOT choose their sexuality.
They MAY chose their actions.

In the media today its all about 'listen to your hear't and 'do what ever you think is right'.

So?
Nothing to do with choosing sexuality.

Tell me this, are humans perfect, obviously not, specifically emotions. We get angry when its unreasonable, cry when its not necessary, and argue illogically. So if im to do something out of an illogical emotion like lust is it right.

What?
Nothing to do with choosing sexuality.

The example of the mice in a enclosed area. Obviously they will be turning to the homosexual desires because there is mainly males in the area and my instincts are telling me to screw something.

Pardon ?
You screw males when in an enclosed area ?

Just some simple thoughts that I would love for someone to rebuttal. Granted there are probably numerous grammar errors but try to over look that.

Ignorant homophonic nonsense.
What a pity you posted without knowing anything about homosexuality.


Tell us Why not - when did YOU choose your sexuality?
Did you try all sorts of sexuality before choosing ?


Iasion

 

[Duck]

To state examples of supposed "straight" people turning gay as some form of evidence is lacking. You have no way to know how that person felt about his sexuality before he "turned" gay, and I use the term turned very loosely. Lots of gay people (and I've known a few that have done this) go through great pains to "act" straight, for lack of a better term, to include having biological families. Unfortunately people do this because of the societal stigma on homosexuality. Of course there are people that have sexual feelings for both genders. This is actually very common.

The way I see it, the only choices homosexual people have is whether to live inside or outside the closet. It's really sad that this turns out to be a very tough decision.

There are programs all over TV on this topic. People going through gender reassignment surgury. Yer gonna tell me someone is going to go through that extremely painful process cause one day they woke up and decided to be gay?

I don't know that many (if any really) of the homophobes really get this issue. I can legally be fired from my job because I am gay in 30 states (assume for a moment we are talking about the USA, and not our more enlightened Northern and European friends). I cannot legally marry in 46 states, and in 7 of those 46 I have access to a second class method of legal recognition for my relationships (which I can still be fired from my job for having) that heterosexuals wouldn't for a second accept in their lives. I cannot (DADT is still on the books and will be for several more months at the least) legally serve in the military if anyone knows that I am gay. It is not uncommon for some variety of "gay panic" defense to be at least floated for violent crimes against LGBT folks, it is not uncommon for law enforcement to drag their heels when dealing with crimes against LGBT folks, and LGBT folks are regularly assaulted and killed in many cases simply because of who they date. Heads of major religious sects regularly call LGBT relationships a greater danger to humanity than environmental destruction; regularly proclaim that LGBT folks are "intrinsically disordered"; priests of major religious sects regularly proclaim that homosexuals will not go be in the kingdom of heaven (since the religion in question is binary in afterlife, that only leaves going to hell, yes?); politicians of major parties introduce legislation to strip rights from LGBT folks; politicians seem to think that LGBT civil rights are something that should be up for a popular vote; and the list is near endless. Is it any wonder that LGBT folks stay in the closet and pretend to be straight? Is it any wonder that LGBT youth have a higher incidence of suicide and attempted suicide than heterosexual youth? Is it any wonder that LGBT youth represent a higher percentage of homeless youth, many on the streets either due to fear of, or in actual result of, their family's reaction to their coming out of the closet? These last 2 facts are then used by the jerks in the religious right to reinforce the fact that 'gays are intrinsically disordered', not unlike the person you responded to.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Yea well, as far as the religious right goes, I mean consider the source. Unfortunately they have much more sway than they ever deserved.

As far as politicians go, its a work in progress. There are far more politicians supporting LGBT folks than there were 30 years ago, but of course it's not nearly enough. However again, you need to consider the source. Politicians are some of the most corrupt people on this planet. There are those that support gay rights that can be swayed to vote otherwise for the right price.

DADT is another issue that will hopefully be resolved shortly. They have already issued an interim repeal ordering commanders to not move against any gay members, whether they come out and say they are gay, or they are caught in the act. I've been in the military for just over 15 years, and fully support the repeal, however that's not an opinion that everyone shares. Far as I'm concerned tho, if you have a problem with it, you get the f*** out of my military.

 

[Im an Atheist]

not sure if this is posted in the right section, but i guess it ties in with the science vs. religion theme.
i got into a little debate with a friend about whether homosexuality is right or wrong. from a religious stand point i said its not right since god (according to some religions) has clearly stated that it is not right. my friend on the other hand said that some people are born that way with a gene for homosexuality, and thus have no control over it and therefore it is not wrong. but the trouble i have with this is that if god has made homosexuality a sin, he wouldnt have created a gene for it. that wouldnt be fair for people who are born with this gene. im just curious about your thoughts on:

1. is there such a gene and how can its existence/nonexistence be justified from a religious point of view.

when i say "religion" im particularly referring to abrahamic religions and others that are against homosexuality

Scientists working on the Human Genome Project have discovered a Gene called the, 'XG28', which has been linked to homosexuality, based on studies of homosexual twins.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There hasn't been any concrete proof of a "gay gene," but we have seen many things that do indicate a genetic cause, and we have also seen indications of environmental factors.
What we do know for sure though is that homosexuality occurs naturally, they are no different than heterosexuals, there children are not more likely to become homosexuals, and we know that gay people do not choose to be gay.

 

[Im an Atheist]

There hasn't been any concrete proof of a "gay gene," but we have seen many things that do indicate a genetic cause, and we have also seen indications of environmental factors.
What we do know for sure though is that homosexuality occurs naturally, they are no different than heterosexuals, there children are not more likely to become homosexuals, and we know that gay people do not choose to be gay.

I know the gay gene has no hard proof, but i was just bringing the xg28 to discussion, because it has been discovered, and tested, and had good reliable results over the experiment performed.

 

[Frank Merton]

To state examples of supposed "straight" people turning gay as some form of evidence is lacking.

Everyone is gay and everyone is straight; its a matter of degree with the occurrence curve heavily tilted toward straight. (That means there are far more people who are 99% straight than who are 99% gay).

Transsexuals (people who feel they were born in a body of the wrong sex) are a different phenomenon. They are also both gay and straight, with the tilting set the same (but it seems the opposite because of their wrong physical body).

Basically, but subject to all sorts of cultural and physiological complications, there are two sets of inherited characteristics -- one that determines our biological sex and another that determines the set of signals that "turn us on." This is to be distinguished with our psychological sex (which, when inverted from our biological sex, leads to transsexualism).

So, the typical straight woman and gay man is "turned on" by what we identify as masculine signals (partly culturally determined) that includes broad chest, narrow hips, general muscularity, round butt, deep voice, Adam's apple, etc., while straight men and gay women are "turned on" by the feminine characteristics (especially broad hips but also large breasts, etc.)

That these turn-ons evolved as they did out of selection for survival (ability to have healthy children vs. ability to provided for these children, and so on), seems to argue strongly for a major genetic input. That the biological sex and the "turn on" sex and the psychological sex are all connected but not absolutely linked seems fairly easy to see.

What causes the various inversions is more difficult to guess. It could be some genes, it could be some intra-uterine or early childhood events, or it could be combinations of these. It might be that they have multiple causes.

Nature seems to select in favor of most people being mostly straight but a few otherwise, perhaps because that mix provides the society certain advantages or perhaps because there is some offsetting benefit to being inverted that slightly, but not significantly, offsets the obvious reproductive disadvantages.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, the typical straight woman and gay man is "turned on" by what we identify as masculine signals (partly culturally determined) that includes broad chest, narrow hips, general muscularity, round butt, deep voice, Adam's apple, etc., while straight men and gay women are "turned on" by the feminine characteristics (especially broad hips but also large breasts, etc.)

I believe that if given entirely natural and neutral conditions, most people would be bisexual with a preference of men or women. Considering that what is deemed to be sexual is almost exclusively determined by culture, the number of cultures where it has been the norm, and how frequently it is seen in animals, I believe it is society that has generated people that are exclusively heterosexual and homosexual. Not entirely, but I believe that sexuality, like many other statistics, should have a positive curve in the middle.

 

[Draka]

Attraction, love, lust, orientation, emotion...all these things are determined in the brain. The hemispheres of the brain form at different rates while growing in the womb. Brain scans have proven that a male homosexual's brain reacts much the same way as a female heterosexual's brain and vice-versa as well. No gene required. Most people are born right-handed because the left hemisphere usually forms dominance. now, if the left stops forming before dominance is determined then an area of the right side will pick up that trait and...ta da...left handed. Much the same for orientation. If the part of the brain that determines heterosexuality stops forming before that is determined then the opposite area picks it up. If determination is stopped midway... ambidextrous... bisexual.


note: before anyone goes nuts...it is just a comparison. It is not saying that left-handed people are gay. yes, I've actually had people go off about that when I've used the comparison. :areyoucra

 

[Skwim]

There is no one single gene for homosexuality, however the evidence is overhwelming that homosexuality has a genetic basis.

The genetic basis is the product of a combination of certain alleles in certain genes, which is why its been so difficult to pin down which genes are involved. It looks pretty probable that some of the genes involved in male homosexuality are linked to increased female fertility.

I think it would be more correct to say that correlations have been found among certain genetically linked individuals and homosexuality. Some homosexuals have been found to have the same markers, or a combination of markers, on certain chromosomes, while others have not. Other factors appear to be birth order, fertility, brain structure, and several others, so while human sexual orientation is genetically influenced in some cases, there are other determining factors that may have to come into play before homosexual orientation occurs.

 

[Frank Merton]

I believe that if given entirely natural and neutral conditions, most people would be bisexual with a preference of men or women. Considering that what is deemed to be sexual is almost exclusively determined by culture, the number of cultures where it has been the norm, and how frequently it is seen in animals, I believe it is society that has generated people that are exclusively heterosexual and homosexual. Not entirely, but I believe that sexuality, like many other statistics, should have a positive curve in the middle.

Whlile what you say seems nice, it flies in the face of the evidence. Heterosexuality is naturally the orientation of the vast majority (probably around 95%) in all species, but only human beings have culture to any significant degree.

(By the way, what is "natural" is not necessarily what is best -- for example, genius is even more rare than homosexuality).

I live in a culture where homosexuality is not recognized by most people unless they have had western influence. They understand transsexualism (queens), but not masculine homosexuals. To them these are still "men." Well, of course they are still "men,"but you knowwhat I mean. That does not, however, mean that the typical male is particularly willing to engage in homosexual acts. They typically react with disinterest, while of course a straight in the West is likely to react with fear or hostility.

My point is that being uninterested in homosexual sex is not culturally learned, while being hostile does appear to be.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

My point is that being uninterested in homosexual sex is not culturally learned, while being hostile does appear to be.

I wouldn't say being hostile to it is culturally learned. IMO, it would descend more from the environment one is raised in, or religious affiliation. If you are raised by bigots, and are exposed to that on a daily basis, chances are you will turn out to be a bigot, at least to a small degree. Of course this isn't 100%, just an observation.

I do however know a few people that are outspoken against homosexuality based solely on what their religion tells them.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

1. is there such a gene and how can its existence/nonexistence be justified from a religious point of view.

If it exists it's justifiable. Is that simple enough?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Certainly! Look how quickly they've come around on the subject of evolution!

Soon it will get to Hitler...oops!...it just did, didn't it?

 

[Frank Merton]

I wouldn't say being hostile to it is culturally learned. IMO, it would descend more from the environment one is raised in, or religious affiliation. If you are raised by bigots, and are exposed to that on a daily basis, chances are you will turn out to be a bigot, at least to a small degree. Of course this isn't 100%, just an observation.

I do however know a few people that are outspoken against homosexuality based solely on what their religion tells them.

I wonder what you think "culturally learned" might mean, since what you say is pretty much what I said.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I wonder what you think "culturally learned" might mean, since what you say is pretty much what I said.

What I think of culturally learned, is not only your home environment, but the culture surrounding the person. What they are exposed to on a daily basis outside of the home. School, work, etc.

 

[Frank Merton]

What I think of culturally learned, is not only your home environment, but the culture surrounding the person. What they are exposed to on a daily basis outside of the home. School, work, etc.

Talking mainly about heterosexual males (the cultural attitudes about female homosexuality are quite different), the Western cultural system teaches that homosexuality is bad. This gets interpreted by adolescent males as seeing a homosexual approach as something to react to with hostility.

The contrast I made is to the reaction of a similar male in most of Asia -- even Muslim areas of Asia, where the reaction is simply one of disinterest -- "why would I want to do that??"

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Talking mainly about heterosexual males (the cultural attitudes about female homosexuality are quite different), the Western cultural system teaches that homosexuality is bad. This gets interpreted by adolescent males as seeing a homosexual approach as something to react to with hostility.

The contrast I made is to the reaction of a similar male in most of Asia -- even Muslim areas of Asia, where the reaction is simply one of disinterest -- "why would I want to do that??"

While I agree that the Western culture in and of itself puts a negative light on homosexuality, that is not to say it can't be countered with a proper upbringing. Parents have a much larger impact on how a child is raised than the surrounding culture, unless you are part of a culture where the community is involved in raising children, which is not the case usually in Western countries. Small podunk towns with small populations may be an exception, however if your parents raise you right, more times than not, that child will not contribute to the discrimination.

 

[Frank Merton]

While I agree that the Western culture in and of itself puts a negative light on homosexuality, that is not to say it can't be countered with a proper upbringing. Parents have a much larger impact on how a child is raised than the surrounding culture, unless you are part of a culture where the community is involved in raising children, which is not the case usually in Western countries. Small podunk towns with small populations may be an exception, however if your parents raise you right, more times than not, that child will not contribute to the discrimination.

A boy growing up in North or South America has got to be very careful to let his peers know he hates queers. That is just the way it is, and enough parents endorse this to pretty much keep it going. At least that was the way it was when I was growing up, and I look back on my own behavior toward those of an effeminate nature with a certain shame. This was in spite of my liberal parents.

I suppose things are getting better: the polls seem to indicate so. Nowadays the Christian right use of homophobia serves as glaring evidence that they are not really Christian.