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Genesis 1:1 from the "J" Hebrew Manuscript

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Cultmember

New Member
In the beginning YAHWEH created the heavens and the earth.

The great prophet IsaYAH wrote in chapter 34: verse 16 Search out: The Book Of Yahweh, and read. Not one of these will be negected. For it is written: Yahweh is their Shepherd; they shall not want.........

IsaYAH 42: 8 I am YAHWEH, that is My Name; and My glory I will not give to another, nor My praise to graven images.

Okie
 
H

Harmonious

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure of your angle, but the Hebrew says clearly "Bere**** bara Elohim et hashamayim v'ha'aretz."

In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

The name you are using might be preferred by you, but isn't the one in the text.
 
dantech

dantech

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
I'm sure he'll let us know.
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I Hope so because I really can't figure it out :confused:

Actually, many excellent translations (e.g., the JPS) offer a somewhat different translation, but none (that I know of) are so ignorant as to translate 'elohim as "YAHWEY." :)
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Right. Sounds like a translation by an elementary student. This whole translation should remain ignored and unused from now on, just because of this.
 
D

dan b

Member
Harmonious said:
I'm not sure of your angle, but the Hebrew says clearly "Bere**** bara Elohim et hashamayim v'ha'aretz."

In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth.

The name you are using might be preferred by you, but isn't the one in the text.
Click to expand...

\
The Apostle Paul said that because the Jews had rejected Jesus as the Messiah their blood would be upon themselves and Christ's message would now go out as forecast throughout the Old Testament to the "European Gentiles." And we today can see that Paul's words have come true. It has been the European Gentiles who became the wild grafted on branches because the originals would not accept Jesus and were thus "broken off." Rm.11;17

So we christians have the bible in our own European languages. This is the real bible and the Old Language Old Testament stays with the non-believers in their original language. We study Jesus's words in our Gentile languages and don't look back to the unbelievers! This is what has come about.
 
cataway

cataway

Well-Known Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
I'm sure he'll let us know.


Actually, many excellent translations (e.g., the JPS) offer a somewhat different translation, but none (that I know of) are so ignorant as to translate 'elohim as "YAHWEY." :)
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I'm just wondering if your saying that it bothers you that the God in question has been identified ?
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
dan b said:
\
The Apostle Paul said that because the Jews had rejected Jesus as the Messiah their blood would be upon themselves and Christ's message would now go out as forecast throughout the Old Testament to the "European Gentiles." And we today can see that Paul's words have come true. It has been the European Gentiles who became the wild grafted on branches because the originals would not accept Jesus and were thus "broken off." Rm.11;17

So we christians have the bible in our own European languages. This is the real bible and the Old Language Old Testament stays with the non-believers in their original language. We study Jesus's words in our Gentile languages and don't look back to the unbelievers! This is what has come about.
Click to expand...

Jesus was a Jew himself. He established the new testament based on the Hebrew OT/Torah, why would He want blatant mistranslations of the OT? Why not, as some do, just abandon the OT altogether then? When someone translates a pre-existing book, the goal is to be as accurate as possible, one of the reasons why I stay away from translations that say, create new rhymes in the English language from text that rhymed in the original work. I would rather read a non-rhyming translation that is more accurate.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
No. I am of the opinion that your comment was ignorant.
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And yet you fail to explain why...:rolleyes:

Either the early Christians knew about the teachings of Jesus, or they didn't. If they knew, then the NT would be an accurate rendition, if not, then most likely completely inaccurate.
As in other threads, the parsing of the NT to fit individual arguments only confuses the issue. But, o.k., if you don't want to explain your position then you don't have to.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
q connor said:
Either the early Christians knew about the teachings of Jesus, or they didn't. If they knew, then the NT would be an accurate rendition, if not, then most likely completely inaccurate.
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That groan you hear is Aristotle turning in his grave. :banghead3
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
q connor said:
Likewise, I'm not sure what you don't comprehend about that if the early Christians didn't know Jesus's teachings, then the NT is necessarily wrong.
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I never said it was necessarily wrong. I said your comment was ignorant. (You really need to pay attention.)
 
dantech

dantech

Well-Known Member
q connor said:
Jesus was a Jew himself. He established the new testament based on the Hebrew OT/Torah.
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You are implying that Jesus was the one who wrote the new testament. Otherwise, how could he establish it's text based on the Hebrew OT/Torah.

Jayhawker Soule said:
That is inaccurate. The New Testament was the canon of texts written decades later by apologists who, arguably, never knew the man.
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As you can see q connor, Jay never said the actual authors never knew Jesus' teachings. All he said is that the actual authors never met or knew Jesus himself since they lived decades later.

I think this is what Jay was saying that you did not understand, q connor.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
dantech said:
You are implying that Jesus was the one who wrote the new testament. Otherwise, how could he establish it's text based on the Hebrew OT/Torah.


As you can see q connor, Jay never said the actual authors never knew Jesus' teachings. All he said is that the actual authors never met or knew Jesus himself since they lived decades later.

I think this is what Jay was saying that you did not understand, q connor.
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Lol getting into some serious semantics here, :D I'll just leave this discussion to another thread, where it belongs anyway.
 
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