Genesis 1 and John 1

[izzy88]

which begs the question, does the darkness exist at all? Or is it the absence of existence?

Darkness doesn't have positive existence; it is merely the absence of the existence of light.

 

[Fool]

There are five distinct Jesuses in the NT, with three distinct backgrounds. Only two of the five created the universe, the Jesus of Paul:

1 Corinthian 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

and, as you say, the Jesus of the author of John:

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.​

These both reflect gnosticism, since they're also the only two Jesuses that pre-existed in Heaven with God and were sent from there to earth as God's emissary. These qualities identify their Jesuses with the gnostic demiurge, who had to be the creator because God, being absolutely pure spirit and very remote, would never create the (non-spiritual, implicitly less than pure) material universe. Having created it, the demiurge then mediates between that universe and God.

So when you say above that the waters pre-existed the creation, if that's correct ─ I'm inclined to think the waters are covered by Genesis 1.1 ─ then it's nonetheless not correct for the Jesuses of Paul and of the author of John.

the demiurge is Lucifer who offered Jesus the world he created. Lucifer and the fallen angels. When the first word was spoken light appeared.

 

[cataway]

the demiurge is Lucifer who offered Jesus the world he created. Lucifer and the fallen angels. When the first word was spoken light appeared.

how could you get that so wrong?

 

[blü 2]

the demiurge is Lucifer who offered Jesus the world he created. Lucifer and the fallen angels. When the first word was spoken light appeared.

I'm not familiar with the idea that Lucifer is a character in gnosticism. But it's clear that the Jesuses of Paul and of the author of John are much influenced by gnostic thought in the ways I mentioned, while the respective jesuses of the authors of Mark, Matthew and Luke are not.

 

[74x12]

before the beginning/creation there was three things that existed: 1: god, 2: Spirit, 3: the waters

then the logos, christ, created everything through itself? the logos was created in the beginning; when God spoke?

but the logos did not create that which was before it, or without it?

No, the Logos is God. As you speak with your breath so God speaks with His own breath. Which is eternal and is Himself. because we would be wrong to think that God needs to breathe anything. Because He's God. He's immortal and self sufficient. But yet, He has breath which is from Himself.

So the Word is just the breath of God sent out with specific vibration. As your tongue and lips and your vocal cords form words with your breath ... so it's the same with God. He sends out His breath with intention and purpose.

That means the Word of God is vibrations within the infinite Spirit of God which is present everywhere.

Just as we don't usually call air wind when it is still. Because Still air is just air. But when it moves we call it wind. That is the pnuema. The holy Spirit of God. As the Spirit fluttered in silence over the face of the deep ... (Genesis 1:2)

To conclude then ... God is first still and everywhere. And when He moves we call it Wind, Spirit. And when He speaks it is the same Wind but now sent out with specific vibration to create. For God made all things by the Word of His mouth and the host of heavens by the breathe of His mouth.

Vibration creating structure or form.

The result? "Let there be Light" (Genesis 1:3)

The entrance of thy Word gives Light.

The Light of God in the darkened world made "days". That is periods of the light shining. 6 periods. In which all things were made. For God made all things in 6 days. And a day is just a period of the shining of the Light. But these are days of God not of the sun.

 

[PearlSeeker]

before the beginning/creation there was three things that existed: 1: god, 2: Spirit, 3: the waters

then the logos, christ, created everything through itself? the logos was created in the beginning; when God spoke?

but the logos did not create that which was before it, or without it?

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

That's just another way of saying God created everything. Heavens represented higher realms for God's throne and angels and earth the lower realm for God's footstool and man.

 

[Fool]

No, the Logos is God. As you speak with your breath so God speaks with His own breath. Which is eternal and is Himself. because we would be wrong to think that God needs to breathe anything. Because He's God. He's immortal and self sufficient. But yet, He has breath which is from Himself.

So the Word is just the breath of God sent out with specific vibration. As your tongue and lips and your vocal cords form words with your breath ... so it's the same with God. He sends out His breath with intention and purpose.

That means the Word of God is vibrations within the infinite Spirit of God which is present everywhere.

Just as we don't usually call air wind when it is still. Because Still air is just air. But when it moves we call it wind. That is the pnuema. The holy Spirit of God. As the Spirit fluttered in silence over the face of the deep ... (Genesis 1:2)

To conclude then ... God is first still and everywhere. And when He moves we call it Wind, Spirit. And when He speaks it is the same Wind but now sent out with specific vibration to create. For God made all things by the Word of His mouth and the host of heavens by the breathe of His mouth.

Vibration creating structure or form.

The result? "Let there be Light" (Genesis 1:3)

The entrance of thy Word gives Light.

The Light of God in the darkened world made "days". That is periods of the light shining. 6 periods. In which all things were made. For God made all things in 6 days. And a day is just a period of the shining of the Light. But these are days of God not of the sun.

FYI, in the OT Spirit, ruwach, means breath, spririt, wind.

so your breath, your spirit is god's

 

[Mitty]

Using this logic, there should be 4 things. You didn't include the darkness...

"In the beginning of God's creation of the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was astonishingly empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water."

And where did the group of gods hold their meeting when they discussed creating a male person in the image and likeness of the male creator god and creating a female person presumably in the image and likeness of a goddess such as Asherah or preferably Aphrodite (Gen 1:25-26)?

 

[dybmh]

And where did the group of gods hold their meeting when they discussed creating a male person in the image and likeness of the male creator god and creating a female person presumably in the image and likeness of a goddess such as Asherah or preferably Aphrodite (Gen 1:25-26)?

I think that was in the prequel.