Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
How holy do you think enoch(Genesis 5:24)
was for God to take him right to heaven?
was for God to take him right to heaven?
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Genesis 5:24
- Thread starter Frank Goad
- Start date
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
I do not see the word heaven. Maybe God took him somewhere else.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
John 3:13 says that no man has ascended into heaven. Enoch was a man. Enoch did not ascend into heaven. See how easy that is?
Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
Were did he take him then?
cataway
Well-Known Member
do you understand the phrase ''took him out "?Were did he take him then?
VoidoftheSun
Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
You mean:
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven"
VoidoftheSun
Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
In the Islamic context, I would say that despite that all the Prophets were manifestations of the Divine (the light, the word and the spirit), the role of Enoch, Elijah and Jesus are the three most mysterious of them all, because they are all are said to have been taken to heaven (sparing apparent polemical contradictions between mainstream discourse between Christians and Muslims over Jesus which is insignificant, as either way he went directly to heaven and has some form of death in his timeline).
This is something I am still musing over myself, namely what the actual ontological (and probably also eschatological) nature of these three figures are.
Christian doctrine says that Jesus was 'sacrificed' to take away people's sins if they accept him.
However leaving aside obvious problems with that belief, that doesn't help the understanding of Jesus in relation to the other two aforementioned.
There is definitely a strong intercessory characteristic of these three figures (though in Shi'ism our Twelve Imams also share this characteristic but in a yet different manner), and in Jewish mysticism Enoch is often identified with the Archangel Metatron, which is intercessory of a different kind.
This is something I am still musing over myself, namely what the actual ontological (and probably also eschatological) nature of these three figures are.
Christian doctrine says that Jesus was 'sacrificed' to take away people's sins if they accept him.
However leaving aside obvious problems with that belief, that doesn't help the understanding of Jesus in relation to the other two aforementioned.
There is definitely a strong intercessory characteristic of these three figures (though in Shi'ism our Twelve Imams also share this characteristic but in a yet different manner), and in Jewish mysticism Enoch is often identified with the Archangel Metatron, which is intercessory of a different kind.
Cooky
Veteran Member
He became the crowned prince of Purgatory.
Cooky
Veteran Member
You mean:
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven"
Are you suggesting that Jesus is an occasional visitor?
VoidoftheSun
Necessary Heretical, Fundamentally Orthodox
No, just correcting that person on their misquote and hinting the implications of figures like Enoch and Elijah who are fundamentally not different to Jesus in that regard.
Cooky
Veteran Member
Oh, okay. Just checkin'.
Cooky
Veteran Member
Do you think more information will be available after death? Because obviously, a lot of people are curious.