Genesis - Big Bang mash-up

[sun rise]

Let poetic, of course, and I'm sure subject to debate but this appealed to me today:

1 In the beginning God created the universe in a BIg Bang
2 And the universe was without form, and filled with plasma; and darkness was upon the face of the plasma. And the Spirit of God moved upon the fog of the plasma.
3 And God said, Let the the universe cool and the cooling allow light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God's laws had divided the light from the darkness.

We Finally Know What Turned The Lights on at The Dawn of Time​

At the beginning of the Universe, within minutes of the Big Bang, space was filled with a hot, dense fog of ionized plasma. What little light there was wouldn't have penetrated this fog; photons would simply have scattered off the free electrons floating around, effectively making the Universe dark.

As the Universe cooled, after about 300,000 years, protons and electrons began to come together to form neutral hydrogen (and a little bit of helium) gas. Most wavelengths of light could penetrate this neutral medium, but there was very little in the way of light sources to produce it. But from this hydrogen and helium, the first stars were born.

Those first stars delivered radiation that was strong enough to peel electrons away from their nuclei and reionize the gas. By this point, however, the Universe had expanded so much that the gas was diffuse, and could not prevent light from shining out. By about 1 billion years after the Big Bang, the end of the period known as the cosmic dawn, the Universe was entirely reionized. Ta-da! The lights were on.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

(illuminating the entrance to a well traveled rabbit hole ...)

 

[sun rise]

(illuminating the entrance to a well traveled rabbit hole ...)

 

[gnostic]

Let poetic, of course, and I'm sure subject to debate but this appealed to me today:

1 In the beginning God created the universe in a BIg Bang
2 And the universe was without form, and filled with plasma; and darkness was upon the face of the plasma. And the Spirit of God moved upon the fog of the plasma.
3 And God said, Let the the universe cool and the cooling allow light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God's laws had divided the light from the darkness.

We Finally Know What Turned The Lights on at The Dawn of Time​

i would thought God lighted up the candle.

Hence, the Big Candle Theory. ️

 

[shunyadragon]

Let poetic, of course, and I'm sure subject to debate but this appealed to me today:

1 In the beginning God created the universe in a BIg Bang
2 And the universe was without form, and filled with plasma; and darkness was upon the face of the plasma. And the Spirit of God moved upon the fog of the plasma.
3 And God said, Let the the universe cool and the cooling allow light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God's laws had divided the light from the darkness.

We Finally Know What Turned The Lights on at The Dawn of Time​

At the beginning of the Universe, within minutes of the Big Bang, space was filled with a hot, dense fog of ionized plasma. What little light there was wouldn't have penetrated this fog; photons would simply have scattered off the free electrons floating around, effectively making the Universe dark.

As the Universe cooled, after about 300,000 years, protons and electrons began to come together to form neutral hydrogen (and a little bit of helium) gas. Most wavelengths of light could penetrate this neutral medium, but there was very little in the way of light sources to produce it. But from this hydrogen and helium, the first stars were born.

Those first stars delivered radiation that was strong enough to peel electrons away from their nuclei and reionize the gas. By this point, however, the Universe had expanded so much that the gas was diffuse, and could not prevent light from shining out. By about 1 billion years after the Big Bang, the end of the period known as the cosmic dawn, the Universe was entirely reionized. Ta-da! The lights were on.

Unfortunately the sciences of Physics and Cosmology "Do not finally know" anything. There are various theories on th eorigins of our universe including what misnamed as the "Big Bang." It is not Bang of any sort, but one theory that our universe began as a singularity. Most of the current proposals include a prior Quantum existence that is "boundless" and no known beginning or end. The current theories include various cyclic models and, of course, a likely multiverse. There is at present no reason to believe our universe is unique.

Rewording ancient tribal texts without science to justify an agenda does not work. There is at present no objective evidence or reasons to conclude a Theological explanation of the origins of our universe or the greater physical existence.

 

[sun rise]

Unfortunately the sciences of Physics and Cosmology "Do not finally know" anything. There are various theories on th eorigins of our universe including what misnamed as the "Big Bang." It is not Bang of any sort, but one theory that our universe began as a singularity. Most of the current proposals include a prior Quantum existence that is "boundless" and no known beginning or end. The current theories include various cyclic models and, of course, a likely multiverse. There is at present no reason to believe our universe is unique.

Rewording ancient tribal texts without science to justify an agenda does not work. There is at present no objective evidence or reasons to conclude a Theological explanation of the origins of our universe or the greater physical existence.

I agree there's not objective evidence. There were speculations by the Greeks and in the Hindu Vedas that are now objectively verified so I was engaging in speculation.

"The sun moves in its own orbit in space taking along with itself the mortal bodies like earth through force of attraction." Jajur Veda 33/43

 

[shunyadragon]

I agree there's not objective evidence. There were speculations by the Greeks and in the Hindu Vedas that are now objectively verified so I was engaging in speculation.

"The sun moves in its own orbit in space taking along with itself the mortal bodies like earth through force of attraction." Jajur Veda 33/43

True, but the geocentric belief of the Bible and the Quran represent ancient world views without science.

The interpretation of scripture is problematic issue in translation especially the Vedas as described in the following reference demonstrating that the Vedas have a better orientation on the nature of our physical existence today.

Scientific Errors in Hinduism - Agniveer

A review of popular misconceptions regarding scientific errors in Hinduism. The article provides the original text of the document as 'Anti-Hindu Claim'.

agniveer.com

Of course, ancient world views of religions are indeed flawed in many ways including cultural, social and belief in exclusive attitudes and not inclusive toward those who believe differently. Rejecting the harmony of science and religion is a perpetual problem in Christianity and Islam. Hinduism today has many problems relating to racism and the caste system grounded in the culture of the Vedas.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Let poetic, of course, and I'm sure subject to debate but this appealed to me today:

1 In the beginning God created the universe in a BIg Bang
2 And the universe was without form, and filled with plasma; and darkness was upon the face of the plasma. And the Spirit of God moved upon the fog of the plasma.
3 And God said, Let the the universe cool and the cooling allow light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God's laws had divided the light from the darkness.

We Finally Know What Turned The Lights on at The Dawn of Time​

At the beginning of the Universe, within minutes of the Big Bang, space was filled with a hot, dense fog of ionized plasma. What little light there was wouldn't have penetrated this fog; photons would simply have scattered off the free electrons floating around, effectively making the Universe dark.

As the Universe cooled, after about 300,000 years, protons and electrons began to come together to form neutral hydrogen (and a little bit of helium) gas. Most wavelengths of light could penetrate this neutral medium, but there was very little in the way of light sources to produce it. But from this hydrogen and helium, the first stars were born.

Those first stars delivered radiation that was strong enough to peel electrons away from their nuclei and reionize the gas. By this point, however, the Universe had expanded so much that the gas was diffuse, and could not prevent light from shining out. By about 1 billion years after the Big Bang, the end of the period known as the cosmic dawn, the Universe was entirely reionized. Ta-da! The lights were on.

So where did God come from?
What is the environment God is in, both before and after the creation?
From what did God make the early universe?

Fact...
God and the Universe are one and the same.
There is no nothing, never was anywhere in existence, and never will be. God/Universe never had a beginning and is eternal and infinite.
God/Universal creation is an eternal process, all things that have a beginning, and they have an ending, this applies to all creation.

I challenge science to prove the existence of absolutely nothing!

 

[shunyadragon]

So where did God come from?
What is the environment God is in, both before and after the creation?
From what did God make the early universe?

The Theist view is that the realm of God is a spiritual existence beyond the universe, God is the Creator of our physical existence. This is a subjective belief as in all the 'isms that consider something beyond our physical existence.

Simply God is the Creator if God exists, and humans cannot comprehend nor define how God Created our physical existence. Though there are many speculative subjective claims to know.

Some believe that our physical existence has always existed reflecting the attributes of God as an evolving changing existence including one or more universe.

Fact...
God and the Universe are one and the same.

Not a fact, but a belief by association defining God in terms of Pantheism.

There is no nothing, never was anywhere in existence, and never will be. God/Universe never had a beginning and is eternal and infinite.
God/Universal creation is an eternal process, all things that have a beginning, and they have an ending, this applies to all creation.

I challenge science to prove the existence of absolutely nothing!

Absolute Nothing is subjective Theistic belief that God Created out physical existence for nothing; ex nihilo

There is no proof or objective evidence for any subjective religious beliefs.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The Theist view is that the realm of God is a spiritual existence beyond the universe, God is the Creator of our physical existence. This is a subjective belief as in all the 'isms that consider something beyond our physical existence.

Simply God is the Creator if God exists, and humans cannot comprehend nor define how God Created our physical existence. Though there are many speculative subjective claims to know.

Some believe that our physical existence has always existed reflecting the attributes of God as an evolving changing existence including one or more universe.

So where did God come from?
What is the environment God is in, both before and after the creation?
From what did God make the early universe?

Not a fact, but a belief by association defining God in terms of Pantheism.

Your believe is just that, a belief, where is your proof that God and the Universe are two separate things?
What do you believe is between them?

Absolute Nothing is subjective Theistic belief that God Created out physical existence for nothing; ex nihilo

There is no proof or objective evidence for any subjective religious beliefs.

So do you agree with me that there is no nothing, ie., science can not prove nothing ever existed.

 

[shunyadragon]

So where did God come from?

IF God exists God is eternal

What is the environment God is in, both before and after the creation?

The spiritual realm of God beyond the physical

From what did God make the early universe?

That was determined by God not human speculation.

Your believe is just that, a belief, where is your proof that God and the Universe are two separate things?

There is no proof of anything that relates to spiritual beliefs.

What do you believe is between them?

At this point in the thread I have not based anything on my beliefs.

So do you agree with me that there is no nothing, ie., science can not prove nothing ever existed.

There is no objective evidence for the Theistic claim of absolute nothing as with any other subjective claim of t=Theistic and other spiritual beliefs beyond the physical existence.

 

[shunyadragon]

Let poetic, of course, and I'm sure subject to debate but this appealed to me today:

1 In the beginning God created the universe in a BIg Bang
2 And the universe was without form, and filled with plasma; and darkness was upon the face of the plasma. And the Spirit of God moved upon the fog of the plasma.
3 And God said, Let the the universe cool and the cooling allow light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God's laws had divided the light from the darkness.

We Finally Know What Turned The Lights on at The Dawn of Time​

At the beginning of the Universe, within minutes of the Big Bang, space was filled with a hot, dense fog of ionized plasma. What little light there was wouldn't have penetrated this fog; photons would simply have scattered off the free electrons floating around, effectively making the Universe dark.

As the Universe cooled, after about 300,000 years, protons and electrons began to come together to form neutral hydrogen (and a little bit of helium) gas. Most wavelengths of light could penetrate this neutral medium, but there was very little in the way of light sources to produce it. But from this hydrogen and helium, the first stars were born.

Those first stars delivered radiation that was strong enough to peel electrons away from their nuclei and reionize the gas. By this point, however, the Universe had expanded so much that the gas was diffuse, and could not prevent light from shining out. By about 1 billion years after the Big Bang, the end of the period known as the cosmic dawn, the Universe was entirely reionized. Ta-da! The lights were on.

I thought I may add a little to this question can be answered in different ways: We Finally Know What Turned The Lights on at The Dawn of Time.

As far as the scientific perspective 'time' likely began with the expansion of the singularity and the lights were turned on.

As far as Creation by God is concerned only God in reality knows beyond any of the many vain efforts of fallible human speculation.

I believe in the eternal unknowable God and an eternal evolving dynamic multiverse Creation reflecting the attributes of God as the shadow of the sun reflects the person or object it illumines. The shadows exist as long as the Sun exists. What is in the shadows in the morning illumined in the afternoon.

I believe the physics and cosmology of the origins of our universe and all possible universes has always been poorly defined and fraught with unknowns,

​

 

[Ben Dhyan]

IF God exists God is eternal

Agreed

The spiritual realm of God beyond the physical

But does spirit and matter coexist in the same space or are they in different spaces?

That was determined by God not human speculation.

It is human speculation that God created the Universe, there is no proof that the Universe was created by anything, it is eternal.

There is no proof of anything that relates to spiritual beliefs.

But there is, if you are not spiritually evolved you can't possibly know, you just speculate.

At this point in the thread I have not based anything on my beliefs.

You have based it on very little but beliefs, by your own admission you are unaware of the evidence of spirit reality. If humility were in play, that should moderate your speculation.

There is no objective evidence for the Theistic claim of absolute nothing as with any other subjective claim of t=Theistic and other spiritual beliefs beyond the physical existence.

And there is no objective evidence of absolute nothing for the Atheistic and Theistical claim of a BB Universe. But a spiritually evolved being is aware of there is no nothing.

 

[shunyadragon]

Agreed

But does spirit and matter coexist in the same space or are they in different spaces?

IF God exists yes.

It is human speculation that God created the Universe,

Yes,it is human subjective belief.

there is no proof that the Universe was created by anything, it is eternal.

Being eternal, maybe. Time may not exist as continuous time beyond the three dimensional universe. There is no actual evidence of a beginning or end of our physical existence. There are many theories for the origins of our universe from the expansion of a singularity to a cyclic universe, none propose an absolute beginning or ending.

But there is, if you are not spiritually evolved you can't possibly know, you just speculate.

You have based it on very little but beliefs, by your own admission you are unaware of the evidence of spirit reality. If humility were in play, that should moderate your speculation.

I have not presented any conclusions on my part.

And there is no objective evidence of absolute nothing for the Atheistic and Theistical claim of a BB Universe..

Whoa! First, atheism has nothing to do with science. Atheism is a philosophical/theological subjective belief that no Gods exist based on the physical evidence, or there is no reason to believe based on the lack of objective evidence. Science does no propose anything sort of an 'absolute nothing.' The nothingness or no boundary existence is NOT absolute nothing, but the Quantum world of Quantum Mechanics.which is something.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

IF God exists yes.

God is the Universe, if you believe the universe exists, then it follows the God exists.

Yes,it is human subjective belief.

The manifested form of the universe is objective.

Being eternal, maybe. Time may not exist as continuous time beyond the three dimensional universe. There is no actual evidence of a beginning or end of our physical existence. There are many theories for the origins of our universe from the expansion of a singularity to a cyclic universe, none propose an absolute beginning or ending.

Speculation. Existence is continuous and as a result, the concept of time is merely an abstraction of that fact, and by using a proxy measurement, it becomes a mental belief/conceptualization.

I have not presented any conclusions on my part.

Good, keep an open mind, proof will come.

Whoa! First, atheism has nothing to do with science. Atheism is a philosophical/theological subjective belief that no Gods exist based on the physical evidence, or there is no reason to believe based on the lack of objective evidence. Science does no propose anything sort of an 'absolute nothing.' The nothingness or no boundary existence is NOT absolute nothing, but the Quantum world of Quantum Mechanics.which is something.

Where is your proof of a no boundary existence of the universe?

 

[shunyadragon]

God is the Universe, if you believe the universe exists, then it follows the God exists.

Again this is your believe in Pantheism, and not related to the argument for a Theistic God.

The manifested form of the universe is objective..

. . . but not your claim of Pantheism

Speculation. Existence is continuous and as a result, the concept of time is merely an abstraction of that fact, and by using a proxy measurement, it becomes a mental belief/conceptualization.

There is more to time than this assertion. We are again drifting to the question of time in theoretical physics and cosmology

Good, keep an open mind, proof will come.

Proof is for math and logical arguments, and even logical arguments carefully crafted may not be true, Subjective claims of religion are not subject to proof unless you have a creative imagination.., Science does not prove anything.

Where is your proof of a no boundary existence of the universe?

Physics and Cosmology. Other threads have covered this adfinime, Do some research and come back. at presnt off topic in theis threa.

 

[shunyadragon]

i would thought God lighted up the candle.

Hence, the Big Candle Theory. ️

That would be before matches were invented, Impossible.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Again this is your believe in Pantheism, and not related to the argument for a Theistic G
. . but not your claim of Pantheism

God is not separate from the manifested Universe, that is a fact, it is not because of a belief in anything. If you think God is separate from his creation, then what is between them? Sorry but your mind seems to be stuck in theories and speculation. If you can't imagine anything between one thing, God in this case, and another, the universe in this case, then it is because there is nothing, God is just another concept to represent the Absolute.

There is more to time than this assertion. We are again drifting to the question of time in physics and cosmology

No

Ok then, don't keep an open mind.,

Physics and Cosmology. Other threads have covered this adfinime, Do some research and come back. at presnt off topic in theis threa.

Haha.....the old no boundary existence shows up the BB silliness every time. Please just picture in your mind a universe with boundaries or without boundary, then draw it and get back to me.

 

[shunyadragon]

God is not separate from the manifested Universe, that is a fact, it is not because of a belief in anything. If you think God is separate from his creation, then what is between them? Sorry but your mind seems to be stuck in theories and speculation. If you can't imagine anything between one thing, God in this case, and another, the universe in this case, then it is because there is nothing, God is just another concept to represent the Absolute.

Ok then, don't keep an open mind.,

Haha.....the old no boundary existence shows up the BB silliness every time. Please just picture in your mind a universe with boundaries or without boundary, then draw it and get back to me.

Sarcasm alert!!

Start a thread on the noboundry concept of the universe and Theoretical Physics and Cosmology, Quantum Mechanics and we will deal with it.

Actually on second thought read the references that began this thread if you understand them,

this is a good thread. I may post osme references on concepts like the no boundary and the time issues.

 

[Sargonski]

Let poetic, of course, and I'm sure subject to debate but this appealed to me today:

1 In the beginning God created the universe in a BIg Bang
2 And the universe was without form, and filled with plasma; and darkness was upon the face of the plasma. And the Spirit of God moved upon the fog of the plasma.
3 And God said, Let the the universe cool and the cooling allow light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God's laws had divided the light from the darkness.

We Finally Know What Turned The Lights on at The Dawn of Time​

At the beginning of the Universe, within minutes of the Big Bang, space was filled with a hot, dense fog of ionized plasma. What little light there was wouldn't have penetrated this fog; photons would simply have scattered off the free electrons floating around, effectively making the Universe dark.

As the Universe cooled, after about 300,000 years, protons and electrons began to come together to form neutral hydrogen (and a little bit of helium) gas. Most wavelengths of light could penetrate this neutral medium, but there was very little in the way of light sources to produce it. But from this hydrogen and helium, the first stars were born.

Those first stars delivered radiation that was strong enough to peel electrons away from their nuclei and reionize the gas. By this point, however, the Universe had expanded so much that the gas was diffuse, and could not prevent light from shining out. By about 1 billion years after the Big Bang, the end of the period known as the cosmic dawn, the Universe was entirely reionized. Ta-da! The lights were on.

Not wanting to rain on parade but, I believe that Genesis is not the creation of the entire Universe but rather the Sun Earth and Solar System.

For example in the New English Translation almost every word is footnoted... I cite d below the passage

In the beginning[a] God[b] created[c] the heavens and the earth.[d]

Or “the entire universe”; or “the sky and the dry land.” This phrase is often interpreted as a merism, referring to the entire ordered universe, including the heavens and the earth and everything in them. The “heavens and the earth” were completed in seven days (see Gen 2:1) and are characterized by fixed laws (see Jer 33:25). “Heavens” refers specifically to the sky, created on the second day (see v. 8), while “earth” refers specifically to the dry land, created on the third day (see v. 10). Both are distinct from the sea/seas (see v. 10 and Exod 20:11).

I would argue the sky and the dry land interpretation is more in keeping with the Ugaritic texts .. the religious belief of the day in Canaan 1500 BC