Genesis & Science - Friend or Foe?

[Dan From Smithville]

Maybe, after the Flood, God made everything look like there was no Flood.

If a person clings to the idea of a global flood, that is the logical conclusion that the evidence and their belief must lead them to. Not a ringing endorsement for believing as they do.

 

[ecco]

Yes ECCO..you are completely right!

Now have a guess!.what I just done there!.

You mangled the rules of punctuation and capitalization.
You showed you don't understand proper grammar.
You incorrectly capitalized "ecco".

Did I guess right?

And yes you are also right “(it) will NEVER be open AGAIN”

So, you admit to being permanently closed-minded. That's very honest of you.

Now have a guess whom I’m referring the (it) to? You

Not fair! You asked me to guess and before I could, you answered the question yourself.

Now watch this! you WILL reply...
And I will show you how I close (it)

Oh, goody!

 

[Workman]

Oh, goody!

Lol..

 

[ecco]

Lol..

See revised post #362.

 

[Workman]

You mangled the rules of punctuation and capitalization.
You showed you don't understand proper grammar.
You incorrectly capitalized "ecco".

Did I guess right?


So, you admit to being permanently closed-minded. That's very honest of you.



Not fair! You asked me to guess and before I could, you answered the question yourself.



Oh, goody!

Yes you are completely right!..lol

 

[nPeace]

The cichlid superflock of Lake Victoria in Africa. Rapid radiation of endemic species and genera over a period of approximately 15,000 years from a few ancestral species. New genera that did not exist prior to the formation of the lake. The evidence for macro-evolution exists. But don't tell me, let me guess, "but they're still fish".

This superflock is approximately 700 species in several genera (above the species level), the majority of which, exist nowhere else in the world.

PS A global flood could not have put them there and nowhere else, since these could survive in other African lakes or even in lakes on other continents. They are not in those other places, because they cannot and could not get to those places from where they are. Cichlids and other fish would not survive a high salt, high suspended solids environment that would exist if the world were rapidly flooded. What tremendously efficient evidence. It supports macro-evolution and rejects a global flood all in one. It would only work if one ignores important points against fish survival in such a flood and provides the flood with the unheard of ability of being highly selective and specific in how anything carried in its waters is distributed. Unnaturally and improbably selective and specific on a global scale.

Seems to me, all you have done, is used classification to include a cycle, which no one here argues against.
So, in the fish family, the cat family, the dog family, etc., adaptation takes place.
We already, at least I thought we did, established that evolution - referring to small changes, is not the same as that projected to support large change - the theory that all life evolved from one common ancestor.

That is the evolution I am asking about.
For example...
Macroevolution refers to evolution of groups larger than an individual species.
Perhaps need to be clear on the term species.
Species - Wikipedia

@Dan From Smithville I forgot to comment on the last bit of speculation.
The same way you assume that one form of life evolved to create diverse life form, it should not be hard to figure out how we get diversity (in the same kind) from a number of 'species' of the same kind.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Seems to me, all you have done, is used classification to include a cycle, which no one here argues against.

I am going to bet that no one here argues for or against what you are saying here, because I doubt that anyone will understand what it is you are talking about? A cycle of what? How was classification used?

So, in the fish family, the cat family, the dog family, etc., adaptation takes place.

Well, I called that one. The "but they're still fish" defense. Who else saw that coming?

There is no fish family in science. There are many families of fish. We all agree that adaptation takes place. Creationists like you, use that word as a way to accept evolution without openly accepting evolution, but if you accept adaptation, you have accepted evolution. It is true. It is also very, very

We already, at least I thought we did, established that evolution - referring to small changes, is not the same as that projected to support large change - the theory that all life evolved from one common ancestor.

No one has established what you are claiming that I know of. No one has provided any support to demonstrate what you are claiming. Macro-evolution is micro-evolution over large scales of time. I believe that sayak83 explained this to you already and I think others have too, but I notice you do not like to listen to others.

That is the evolution I am asking about.

It is all the same evolution.

For example...
Macroevolution refers to evolution of groups larger than an individual species.
Perhaps need to be clear on the term species.
Species - Wikipedia

Speciation can be macro-evolution. There is no clear cutoff and some use speciation as a convenience, while others consider macro-evolution at or above the species level. By the evidence, the consideration of speciation as macro-evolution is the more valid consideration. There are exceptions, but most speciation occurs over long periods of time and includes numerous small changes. The superflock that you are avoiding deep review over is an example of one of the fastest known on record.

The superflock represents a very robust example of macro-evolution, since several endemic genera evolved. You do know what a genus is don't you? A genus is the singular of genera. A genus is a group of species and is higher order of taxa. It does not surprise me that you avoid dealing with this, since it is solid evidence to refute your claims and your flood belief.

@Dan From Smithville I forgot to comment on the last bit of speculation.

So you have moved on from calling anything that disagrees with your beliefs, bad science and now just call it speculation. It is not speculation, since the conclusions are based on evidence, but you keep chanting and wishing. Your hand might fill up.

The same way you assume that one form of life evolved to create diverse life form, it should not be hard to figure out how we get diversity (in the same kind) from a number of 'species' of the same kind.

I do not assume that. I accept it based on the evidence. Propaganda is false witness, just like outright lying.

I notice that you just make general claims that the information you get is wrong, instead of dealing with it directly. You do realize that others notice this too? It is pretty obvious that you have no means to refute the information. That is also noted.

You will have to explain a number of statements you make, they are incomplete and somewhat incomprehensible. Is that by design?

 

[Workman]

You ask for a flood? I will give it!..and you won’t even see it coming!

 

[nPeace]

I know JW`s are not the only religious group to interpret the Bible to denigrate education, intelligence and God's gifts of reasoning and observation, bur few do it with such passion and fervor.

Apparently you don't know what you think you know.
This is nothing more than your opinion that is obviously very defamatory - a high level of slander, if I may say so.

High officials and Educators worldwide, know that you are lying.
All one has to do, is read any credible journal, and see that JWs receive some of the highest praise for their educational work and skills in engineering, and other works.
Witnesses Receive Highest Rating by GBI for Sustainable Design of New World Headquarters
Witnesses Win Major Awards for Green Building Design and Construction
Witnesses Repair 60-Year-Old Dam in Warwick

Witnesses Awarded by Sign-Language Translation Associations in Colombia

That appears to be some serious envy you have there dude.
Apparently you know nothing about JWs and their education or what they teach about reasoning.

Actually, the best you can do is throw insults at people, and you have just done so to an entire national community of people, that includes millions of school teachers, and other educator, scientists, lawyers, physicians, etc.

This is what I saw from the beginning of your posts, but I didn't want to bring it up in this thread, so as to keep it 'topic focused'. However, now that we have reached this point...it's a shame that some people are so full of themselves that their head has swollen so big, their eyes can barely open to see, that they are really nothing.
I know. That's me right? That's not what the evidence shows though.

 

[nPeace]

If you had done that you would understand where it says that plants were made before the Sun and Moon. I even posted those verses for you earlier. I think that you may be conflating "making excuses for" with "studied".

I don't seem to understand anything I am saying, so why are you even bothering?
The Bible does not say the sun, moon and stars were created after plants.

 

[nPeace]

I have to get something to eat.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Apparently you don't know what you think you know.
This is nothing more than your opinion that is obviously very defamatory - a high level of slander, if I may say so.

It is not. You interpret the Bible for your own agenda and the JW site indicates that your cult does not think much of education. They are the words of your organization. How can that be slander. Besides, I think you mean libel. Of which it is not, since it does not damage anything and is in agreement with the claims of your organization. What you posted might be libelous on that basis.

High officials and Educators worldwide, know that you are lying.

You will have to provide more than your puffed up claims for anyone to believe that. Now, this is libelous.

All one has to do, is read any credible journal, and see that JWs receive some of the highest praise for their educational work and skills in engineering, and other works.
Witnesses Receive Highest Rating by GBI for Sustainable Design of New World Headquarters
Witnesses Win Major Awards for Green Building Design and Construction
Witnesses Repair 60-Year-Old Dam in Warwick

Witnesses Awarded by Sign-Language Translation Associations in Colombia

I went to your website. I read the words of individual JW's. Education is not a priority and is frowned upon.

That appears to be some serious envy you have there dude.

Are you serious? What would I have to be envious about? I do not have to use tricks, manipulation and pretend to support my position.

Apparently you know nothing about JWs and their education or what they teach about reasoning.

I know what you publish. Are you claiming the published words of JW's regarding education are false?

Actually, the best you can do is throw insults at people, and you have just done so to an entire national community of people, that includes millions of school teachers, and other educator, scientists, lawyers, physicians, etc.

Give me a break. You are quick to insult. Another JW on here, never heard a word of insult from me and started firing them off, including claims that my church had sold out. The opinion means nothing, but the fact that it was delivered by a group quick to claim persecution was noted.

This is what I saw from the beginning of your posts, but I didn't want to bring it up in this thread, so as to keep it 'topic focused'. However, now that we have reached this point...it's a shame that some people are so full of themselves that their head has swollen so big, their eyes can barely open to see, that they are really nothing.
I know. That's me right? That's not what the evidence shows though.

It is what the evidence shows. You are just on here playing pigeon chess and treating anyone that disagrees with you like they were idiots.

Not once have you stuck to support of your claims. You have spent more time trying to push your burden of proof on others, falsely claim acceptance based on evidence is faith, speculation and myth, implying a lot about those that accept science. You have created double standards, where you demand evidence you do not provide. You have invented straw man arguments. You embrace logical fallacies as if they were your salvation.

Your entire tirade is another attempt to use false claims, persecution and personal attack to divert from your burden of proof.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't seem to understand anything I am saying, so why are you even bothering?
The Bible does not say the sun, moon and stars were created after plants.

He is not alone. You run around and around the subject without really touching on it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't seem to understand anything I am saying, so why are you even bothering?
The Bible does not say the sun, moon and stars were created after plants.

Actually it does. Once again, I posted the pertinent verses here a long time ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Apparently you don't know what you think you know.
This is nothing more than your opinion that is obviously very defamatory - a high level of slander, if I may say so.

High officials and Educators worldwide, know that you are lying.
All one has to do, is read any credible journal, and see that JWs receive some of the highest praise for their educational work and skills in engineering, and other works.
Witnesses Receive Highest Rating by GBI for Sustainable Design of New World Headquarters
Witnesses Win Major Awards for Green Building Design and Construction
Witnesses Repair 60-Year-Old Dam in Warwick

Witnesses Awarded by Sign-Language Translation Associations in Colombia

That appears to be some serious envy you have there dude.
Apparently you know nothing about JWs and their education or what they teach about reasoning.

Actually, the best you can do is throw insults at people, and you have just done so to an entire national community of people, that includes millions of school teachers, and other educator, scientists, lawyers, physicians, etc.

This is what I saw from the beginning of your posts, but I didn't want to bring it up in this thread, so as to keep it 'topic focused'. However, now that we have reached this point...it's a shame that some people are so full of themselves that their head has swollen so big, their eyes can barely open to see, that they are really nothing.
I know. That's me right? That's not what the evidence shows though.

Yes, some JW's can do difficult work. That does not disprove Dan's claim.

 

[Windwalker]

The Bible does not say the sun, moon and stars were created after plants.

Does your translation rip these verses out of the Bible then?

Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

That's the sun and the moon "God" is talking about there. "He also made the stars" in addition to the sun and moon.

All of that on the 4th day after vegetation was already growing... somehow... perhaps "miracle light" of some sort? I don't know. I can't figure that out. Do you have any revelation how plants grew before the sun and moon existed? You could make some converts here if you can explain that one reasonably well. Please enlighten.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes, some JW's can do difficult work. That does not disprove Dan's claim.

According to what I have read of he officially sponsored church opinion on the subject, education is not a big thing with them. Part of it deals with the fact that they are waiting around to end, so why bother learning anything. Of course, I am summarizing, but this is the essence of the church stance. Members are not encouraged to pursue anything outside of Bible study and what is required by law.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Does your translation rip these verses out of the Bible then?

Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

That's the sun and the moon "God" is talking about there. "He also made the stars" in addition to the sun and moon.

All of that on the 4th day after vegetation was already growing... somehow... perhaps "miracle light" of some sort? I don't know. I can't figure that out. Do you have any revelation how plants grew before the sun and moon existed? You could make some converts here if you can explain that one reasonably well. Please enlighten.

Someone else once pointed out the obvious, yet it had not occurred to me, but without the sun, not only would there be no light for the plants, but it would be incredibly cold. Far too cold for cell processes, let alone growth.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes, some JW's can do difficult work. That does not disprove Dan's claim.

I think his entire post was a big smokescreen so he could avoid providing support for his claims.

 

[Windwalker]

Members are not encouraged to pursue anything outside of Bible study and what is required by law.

From what I'm sensing I wonder if they either actively or subtly discourage learning anything outside belief-sanctioned knowledge which does not support their views. I could be wrong, but there's a lot of anti-intellectualism going on here from what I'm gathering.