Genome sequencing leaves Creationists unable to respond

[waitasec]

[youtube]BXdQRvSdLAs[/youtube]
YouTube - Genome sequencing leaves Creationists unable to respond


i don't know about the title, i didn't come up with it...i'm sure creationists will try to respond to this.
any thoughts?

 

[Meow Mix]

I can "sort of" understand counter-arguments to common descent a few decades ago, but ever since the genetic evidence has been available it's become abundantly clear that only the truly nescient and agenda-driven people will deny it with any fervor.

Creationists, if this video puzzles you, it's just the tip of the iceberg. You should also know about how so-called "junk DNA" can be parasitic to an organism's own genome and how these patches (which can for all intents and purposes be treated like a genetic "organism" within a gene sequence) can also clearly show common descent between closely related organisms just as easily as if some madman went around spray painting genome sequences fluorescent colors which you could compare side by side to get a color coded sequence of descent.

Then consider the fact that parasites are often so specialized that they only parasitize a small range of species per species of parasite and that you can follow the evolution of parasites to their hosts just like snapping two pieces of a puzzle together to make a tree of clearly visible common descent (if you were to put the big picture together in any given ecosystem). After all, it's pretty interesting that the parasites found in whales have the same unique genetic markers as parasites found in land mammals thought to share common descent with whales for completely unrelated reasons -- isn't it?

How people deny common descent just truly baffles me, especially if they actually know anything at all about it (which is rare).

 

[waitasec]

come on now, any creationists out there?










:snoopy:

 

[Tristesse]

Well, this thread is a demonstration of it's title. "Genome sequencing leaves Creationists unable to respond."

 

[outhouse]

Ive found creationist are hicing in other areas of the forums where they have back up with like minds lol.

you think theres only the 2 or 3 stubborn one's a month that come through here. You get into the scipt theads or other places with a large biblical pockets and they come out of teh wood work.

thw regular creationist area afraid to come in here

 

[Harmonious]

I'm not really sure what you are looking for.

What are you asking for us to say?

I don't know enough about genetics for me to launch any type of argument, so I usually don't. I would say that the video was impressive. I'm not sure that I have enough background to agree, disagree, or say anything that would usefully continue a conversation about the topic.

It is cool that human chromosome #2 seems to be fused from other primates' chromosome #2 and #13. So it would seem.

Is it so? I don't know. But then again, my forte is English literature and character analysis. I'm quite knowledgeable in Jewish law. I understand many of the biological systems: the circulatory system, the digestive system, and like that.

Genetics... I learned about it, I remember all the steps in mitosis and meiosis. I can fill in Punnet Squares. I remember other things that aren't necessarily as interesting or useful.

I've had an update in biology to deal with my assorted medical issues. More than that... I'm not competent to argue one way or another.

Would you like me to say things just so I can look like an idiot? I'm not going to make an argument when I have nothing meaningful to contribute.

 

[Meow Mix]

I'm not really sure what you are looking for.

What are you asking for us to say?

I don't know enough about genetics for me to launch any type of argument, so I usually don't. I would say that the video was impressive. I'm not sure that I have enough background to agree, disagree, or say anything that would usefully continue a conversation about the topic.

It is cool that human chromosome #2 seems to be fused from other primates' chromosome #2 and #13. So it would seem.

Is it so? I don't know. But then again, my forte is English literature and character analysis. I'm quite knowledgeable in Jewish law. I understand many of the biological systems: the circulatory system, the digestive system, and like that.

Genetics... I learned about it, I remember all the steps in mitosis and meiosis. I can fill in Punnet Squares. I remember other things that aren't necessarily as interesting or useful.

I've had an update in biology to deal with my assorted medical issues. More than that... I'm not competent to argue one way or another.

Would you like me to say things just so I can look like an idiot? I'm not going to make an argument when I have nothing meaningful to contribute.

Do you deny common descent interpretation of the evidence or are you claiming agnosticism on the issue? I think the OP is more about people who flat out deny the possibility of common descent.

 

[Harmonious]

Do you deny common descent interpretation of the evidence or are you claiming agnosticism on the issue? I think the OP is more about people who flat out deny the possibility of common descent.

I'm claiming agnosticism on the issue.

I don't know enough to state what I believe completely. Before the video, I might have considered evolution for all physical beings except for humans. Now... I don't know.

I'm not saying that the geneticists are right, but I don't know enough to say that they are wrong. It certainly looks like they're right.

But how could I possibly know?

I don't, so I'm staying out of it.

There are people who believe what I do who are far more knowledgeable about all kinds of things. However... Honestly - I have SO many things to think about.

Evolution, Old Earth vs. Young Earth, and topics that usually pit religious atheists against believers in God don't hit my radar.

My belief in God would not change if your view would be proven to be scientifically sound. My belief in God would not change if your view would be proven to be nonsense.

Miracles happened to jump-start the universe. If those acts of God happened through entirely natural means... Or God invented what those natural means WERE at the time, I would find that interesting.

Even if it was 100% solid that humans and the other primates shared a common ancestor, the fact would remain that humans have evolved more than any other to have cognitive functions that no other creature has on levels that no other creature has.

I'd still work with the framework that Adam and Eve were the first humans who were conscious enough to have a relationship with God, one way or another.

 

[micrurus]

you should watch the 2 hour version of that video if you had the time, ID got CRUSHED

 

[Breathe]

I've not actually seen many creationists active on the forum lately. Maybe I'm just lucky like that.


Out of curiosity, I'd like to know: if any of the other genomes had fused together instead the ones that did, or one of the genomes and another one, what (at a guess) would have happened? Would it have been a "dead end", or something else, does anyone know?

 

[TJ73]

I dunno. The point is kinda lost for me. The evidence of an evolutionary path of all life forms is indisputable. Those that are unaware of that are probably lacking in the most fundamental elementary education in biology. Who knows why, perhaps they were not educationally advantaged or not bright ( not everyone is and that's OK) But of those, presented with the information and capable of understanding it, who refuse to acknowledge it, there is probably no way to convince them.. of anything! And those ( believing in God) that have no delusion in respect to ToE, will not find it a threat to beliefs. I think it will be difficult to lure in a debate due to the nature of those required to debate it.

 

[TJ73]

I see btw there is a lot new to learn on this subject. Anyone recommend an easy read? I am also interested in the ... I can't remember what they are called.. bu they are little "trigger" along the chain that "turn on" certain genes and shut others off. It's what makes animals of the same species grow at different rates. Like how you have chihuahuas and great danes.

 

[Harmonious]

you should watch the 2 hour version of that video if you had the time, ID got CRUSHED

It never would.

What I CAN see is that people representing that creation happened with intelligent design didn't bother to realize that things could happen in a way that the common theories of science of the time didn't mesh with their belief system.

For example, I know of a 13th century Kabbalist who, in his commentary on the first chapter of Genesis, describes something that sounds an awful lot like "the Big Bang" theory.

Many people didn't understand what he meant, or passed over this idea as being "too mystical" to understand until the words Big Bang became common parlance. Then, people were able to fit the mystical commentary into an understanding that makes both fit.

There is always a way for the belief in God, or Intelligent Design, to work. There is no question that I believe that God created the universe, and used wisdom beyond humanity to do it.

If people discover a physical explanation for HOW it happened, it doesn't mean that it was designed any less intelligently. It just means that people figured out what methods God used to create the world, or that portion of creation.

 

[micrurus]

I see btw there is a lot new to learn on this subject. Anyone recommend an easy read? I am also interested in the ... I can't remember what they are called.. bu they are little "trigger" along the chain that "turn on" certain genes and shut others off. It's what makes animals of the same species grow at different rates. Like how you have chihuahuas and great danes.

maybe this would interest you

YouTube - khanacademy's Channel

this guy makes alot of videos easily to follow about the basics of genetics and cellular biology.

 

[ZooGirl02]

I believe in evolution. However, I am what is called a Theistic Evolutionist. I believe that God started the evolutionary process and guided it and so now here we are today as modern Homo Sapiens.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I believe in evolution. However, I am what is called a Theistic Evolutionist. I believe that God started the evolutionary process and guided it and so now here we are today as modern Homo Sapiens.

I think a lot of creationists fall into this category as well. It makes a lot of sense; if one assumes a creator, then believing and studying evolution is studying the mechanism the creator used for life.

 

[Harmonious]

I believe in evolution. However, I am what is called a Theistic Evolutionist. I believe that God started the evolutionary process and guided it and so now here we are today as modern Homo Sapiens.

If I came to a conclusive decision about evolution, that would probably be my take on it.

 

[Harmonious]

I think a lot of creationists fall into this category as well. It makes a lot of sense; if one assumes a creator, then believing and studying evolution is studying the mechanism the creator used for life.

:yes:

That makes the most sense to me.

 

[outhouse]

I find thinking like that just another case of creationist moving the bar to meet their beliefs to rationalize imagination. only in my opinion

in modern society with evolution pretty much being fact, your going to see a shift in creation thought's with the bar being moved backwards to meet religious needs so they dont seem crazy like belief in YEC

 

[Penumbra]

you should watch the 2 hour version of that video if you had the time, ID got CRUSHED

I do agree that the full video is a decent watch.

I see btw there is a lot new to learn on this subject. Anyone recommend an easy read?

I recommend Evolution for Everyone by David Sloan Wilson. I read it when I was bored in a library once, and it's a good, accessible read.