Gentiles, dogs, and Jesus

[Mahatma Gandhi]

Matthew 15:21-28

Jesus refers to the Canaanite woman, a gentile, as a dog. How do Christians explain this? Does this mean Jesus only came for the Jews?

 

[wordmagnifiedabovenames]

I see it as Jesus saying what needed to be said in order to lead the woman (and the subsequent readers of Matthew) to a revelation about the link 'twixt truth and mercy. It ties in nicely with Ps 85 and Gen 14.

 

[aenamjj]

The answer to that is, Jesus spoke symbolically, ii) not all translation seems as you read it in another language, the effect, power, tone and implication do change to some degree. iii) the message and explanation must be read in context, principle and cultural expression in the same manner, i.e in the French language, a 'wife' is called a 'Woman', - meaning this is my woman, whilst some get affended by it but it is NOT meant to be. In the same manner with many other words in different languages. Take it for the teaching principle by symbols and not literally. Jesus never insulted anyone rather he healed, loved and died for mankind.

 

[confusedius]

I believe at the point where this was said, Jesus indeed felt he was there for the jews. As time went on, this position changed.

James

 

[Pegg]

Matthew 15:21-28

Jesus refers to the Canaanite woman, a gentile, as a dog. How do Christians explain this? Does this mean Jesus only came for the Jews?

when the Phoenician begged him to cure her daughter he told her: “I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she continued to request his help so he said: “It is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.” By alluding to Gentiles as “little dogs,” he wasnt actually calling them 'dogs' in a derogatory sense...he was testing her attitude. It seems he got the reply he was looking for because when he heard it, the account says he 'immediately cured her daughter'

her reply was "Yes, Lord; but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.”

Jesus role was to 'go to the lost sheep of Isreal'...the gentiles were to be offered salvation after God had selected ones from Isreal to rule in the heavenly kingdom...once that time period was over, the door was opened to the gentiles as was always a part of Gods plan. Jesus knew that and was working in harmony with Gods will at that time - he was focusing firstly on Isreal - the fact that Jesus cured her daughter shows Gods mercy and love for all people.

 

[PhAA]

when the Phoenician begged him to cure her daughter he told her: “I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she continued to request his help so he said: “It is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to little dogs.” By alluding to Gentiles as “little dogs,” he wasnt actually calling them 'dogs' in a derogatory sense...he was testing her attitude. It seems he got the reply he was looking for because when he heard it, the account says he 'immediately cured her daughter'

her reply was "Yes, Lord; but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.”

Jesus role was to 'go to the lost sheep of Isreal'...the gentiles were to be offered salvation after God had selected ones from Isreal to rule in the heavenly kingdom...once that time period was over, the door was opened to the gentiles as was always a part of Gods plan. Jesus knew that and was working in harmony with Gods will at that time - he was focusing firstly on Isreal - the fact that Jesus cured her daughter shows Gods mercy and love for all people.

so jesus is a racist? I'm sure there are other ways for a loving god to test people.

 

[Pegg]

so jesus is a racist? I'm sure there are other ways for a loving god to test people.

of course not.

but Jesus role at that time was to gather heirs for the kingdom of God from among the jewish race...not from people of the nations.

 

[PhAA]

of course not.

but Jesus role at that time was to gather heirs for the kingdom of God from among the jewish race...not from people of the nations.

So why call someone a dog? It doesn't seem like a test. More of an insult so the woman may change her religion and not be a "dog."

 

[Morpheus]

If Jesus referred to someone as a dog, knowing the guy as I do, I would suggest he would be referring to the positive attributes of a dog - perhaps undying loyalty. Much of Jesus' words were symbolic rather than literal. This is why there is so much misunderstanding around biblical texts.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

More importantly this is a DIR section of the forum, so unless you are asking serious questions you should not be in here.

Jesus knew already what the woman wanted, what she would ask, and the outcome of the situation before it even happened. It was said the way it was, so that it would be recorded for us to read in later times.
It simply pointed out that gentiles, according to Jews were heathens, dogs, etc... So he went with that idea, knowing full well he planned to help the lady, he said it in a way to mock the Jews. To which she played along, by saying but even dogs eat the crumbs, etc...

She knew he was Christ, and He knew that she knew. So their dialog was in gest, and she was not offended at all.

Kind of like this. Let's say there was a boy who made a group of kids mad because he was different. He dressed different, acted different, etc... The group spread rumors about the boy, that he had cooties, and smelled funny.
Then comes along a girl, despite what she had heard and asked the boy to play. The boy realizing she saw through the ramblings of the group, and knew the boy to not be as rumored.
So the boy replies to her, you know if you play with me, you will get cooties and start to smell funny. She playing along says, oh it's OK, I like to smell funny.

 

[PhAA]

More importantly this is a DIR section of the forum, so unless you are asking serious questions you should not be in here.

Jesus knew already what the woman wanted, what she would ask, and the outcome of the situation before it even happened. It was said the way it was, so that it would be recorded for us to read in later times.
It simply pointed out that gentiles, according to Jews were heathens, dogs, etc... So he went with that idea, knowing full well he planned to help the lady, he said it in a way to mock the Jews. To which she played along, by saying but even dogs eat the crumbs, etc...

She knew he was Christ, and He knew that she knew. So their dialog was in gest, and she was not offended at all.

Kind of like this. Let's say there was a boy who made a group of kids mad because he was different. He dressed different, acted different, etc... The group spread rumors about the boy, that he had cooties, and smelled funny.
Then comes along a girl, despite what she had heard and asked the boy to play. The boy realizing she saw through the ramblings of the group, and knew the boy to not be as rumored.
So the boy replies to her, you know if you play with me, you will get cooties and start to smell funny. She playing along says, oh it's OK, I like to smell funny.

Oh yeah, a god insulting me would make me feel better. And, your example is like Jesus joined and became a gentile. Should it be like the girl would say to the boys, "You should take a bath so you won't have cooties anymore."

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Oh yeah, a god insulting me would make me feel better. And, your example is like Jesus joined and became a gentile. Should it be like the girl would say to the boys, "You should take a bath so you won't have cooties anymore."

This is not a debate section of the RF. Please abide by the rules. I didn't post this to argue about it, if you want to argue, start a thread about it in a debate section of the forum.

 

[Pegg]

So why call someone a dog? It doesn't seem like a test. More of an insult so the woman may change her religion and not be a "dog."

perhaps he was gently showing that it wasnt time for the gentiles, the little dogs as opposed to the big dogs, to receive the kingdom of God

Dogs are mans best friend, beautiful creatures, I really cant see how jesus words could be twisted into something they are not...he was not insulting the woman.

 

[PhAA]

perhaps he was gently showing that it wasnt time for the gentiles, the little dogs as opposed to the big dogs, to receive the kingdom of God

Dogs are mans best friend, beautiful creatures, I really cant see how jesus words could be twisted into something they are not...he was not insulting the woman.

I guess it just depends on how you define it. "dog" was associated with something bad, but you associate it with something good. So it's just normal to have other perceptions.

 

[Pegg]

I guess it just depends on how you define it. "dog" was associated with something bad, but you associate it with something good. So it's just normal to have other perceptions.

yes thats very true

Its also indicitive from the account that the woman did not take offense to Jesus words...if she felt that he was insulting her, surely she would not have stuck around and continued to ask for his help. I think by her response we should be able to deduct that Jesus was not attempting to insult her.... if he was, then he wasnt very good at it lol

 

[PhAA]

yes thats very true

Its also indicitive from the account that the woman did not take offense to Jesus words...if she felt that he was insulting her, surely she would not have stuck around and continued to ask for his help. I think by her response we should be able to deduct that Jesus was not attempting to insult her.... if he was, then he wasnt very good at it lol

I have a theory about that, but I'd rather not say. I think some people are angry at me. :angel2:

 

[Pegg]

I have a theory about that, but I'd rather not say. I think some people are angry at me. :angel2:

lol

whats your theory?

 

[hellfire]

Maybe she actually was a dog. A beautiful Labrador Retriever.

 

[roberto]

Two Houses are discussed in scriptures :
1. House of Israel.
2. House of Judah.

None of the two refer to goyim.

If one can not make a distinction here one will not understand who the Messiah was sent for/to.

This leads to Christians wanting to proseletize Jews for whom the Messiah was not sent.

Do a search in Esword for these two houses and study the context to find out who is refered to.
Shalom

 

[Road Warrior]

This link has a fuller take on the passage: The Faith Of A Canaanite Woman (Matthew 15:21-28) | Bible.org - Worlds Largest Bible Study Site

I see it more of a sign of the humanness in Jesus, meaning a prejudice or limited ability, but note that it ends with the humanity of Jesus by conceding to heal the daughter.

It's one of the many examples of the powers of Jesus to make miracles. If one is cynical, then they can liken it to Hollywood where a scene needs to be set up in order for the hero to save the day. It'd be kinda boring, not to mention making a very short paragraph, if the woman asked "Heal my daughter" and Jesus said "She is healed".

In another respect, it shows that Jesus is a savior to all. If I was writing it, I'd have made one of the disciples say "Lord, you were only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs" then let Jesus be the magnanimous hero by saying "Yes, but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table."

Of course this wouldn't show the woman's faith in the same light so maybe that was the point of the story, to show even Canaanites have great faith.