Genuine Witchcraft, Sorcery, Necromancy, etc.

[Skwim]

Not surprisingly, the Bible doesn't take kindly to people who practice these "arts,"

Exodus 22:18
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.​

and while rarely given much press today, in announcing its hostility toward them the Bible gives them credibility. In effect, it's saying that true witchery, sorcery, necromancy, etc. actually exists. Using evil spirits, casting spells that work, communicating with the dead, and summoning up the spirits of the dead is literally possible, and no doubt going on right today.

My question then is, as a Christian do you believe this? That today there are sorcerers actually using evil spirits, and witches concocting potions that will affect the unsuspecting?

_________________________________________________________________


FYI, I've assembled definitions of these practices to help understand them*

Witchcraft
Sometimes considered equivalent to sorcery, but rarely using evil spirits, it often employs objects, potions, and incantations to cast spells and produce troubling supernatural events.

Necromancy
is a form of magic involving communication with the deceased – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily – for the purpose of divination, imparting the means to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge, or to use the deceased as a weapon,

Sorcery
is the art, practices, or spells of a person that exercises supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery.

Mediumship
is the practice of certain people—known as mediums—to purportedly mediate communication between spirits of the dead and living human beings.

Charming
the practice of casting a controlling spell over others.


* I don't claim these are the best or only definitions god had in mind when he inspired their uses.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Its true there are many superstitions about these and some laity perform 'Exorcisms' of many kinds. They cause all kinds of trouble, some not knowingly. Let me give you some perspective about why these beliefs are so common and so strong. It is because perverted gangs like to use myths to operate upon children. This is not limited to Christian culture by the way but happens in other places and other cultures, too. Its a terrible thing and a shame. I will tell you about some people I've met who've told me about horrific things that were done to them in the name of Satan, and I'll give you a personal experience from my childhood.

There are gangs in real life that do use these superstitions as cover, pretending to be representatives of evil -- for various reasons. I don't know all the reasons. There are child abuse victims who've been through some very weird rituals involving Satan. I cannot confirm this with links or books, but I know people. The supernatural side of their story seems bunk, but the abuse seems real. I think gangs in Europe use the Biblical symbols merely because they are embedded in the culture and scare children (and others). Not for a second do I attribute any kind of supernatural influence to those events, however I have met more than one person who claims to have been abused as a child in bizarre ritualistic circumstances. I myself was accosted by a man in a church hallway and while I wasn't raped or anything, this weird guy who kept talking about Satan loving his children gave me a very uncomfortable squeeze and had an orgasm (I learned later what it was). Nothing happened to me, but I sometimes wondered if something had. Now then, did this prove 'Satan' had minions going about raping children? Did it prove anything such as the reality of Biblical stories and exorcisms? No, because evil perverts use whatever is at hand to prey upon children mind and body. Is the desire to pervert children uncommon? No its not uncommon at all. Its a natural desire that is totally antagonistic to life as we know it and is bad for children. We see it appear in religions, in fraternities, in pornography and deep down in the forbidden recesses of every heart is every evil thing.

Some Christians take this weird stuff as evidence for Satan and all the weird demonology and superstitions that have become popular, and that is appalling to me. Its unfortunate, because it completes the cycle started by these gangs and perverts. There are numerous books about exorcisms for the evangelical style of Christianity with which I'm familiar and many superstitions. For example when I was a child I was discouraged from buying any products from Haiti (such straw hats) in case they had been cursed by a witch doctor. That is some very strong superstition I think, for people to be afraid just to purchase products!

So I agree with you that its really bad to encourage superstitions about Witches, Satan etc. I loathe exorcisms as much as leg-lengthening services. At the same time it is not merely the presence of evil symbols in religions texts which encourages these superstitions. It is common for loathsome people to use myths in connection with sexual attacks on children. I'm sorry that I cannot prove this, but maybe you will see evidences for yourself in people you meet or news. The situation is much worse than it looks, because people have deep evil lurking in them. Sometimes it comes out, and its not a person or a being. Its a genetic trait that probably exists in all people, albeit mostly forgotten. Encouraging superstitions is perhaps a contributing factor. Its complicated though, and as I think about it I think that if it weren't 'Satan' it would be something else...some other symbol for evil. Something would be used, but as it is Satan, witches, sorcerers etc are the symbols that are used. I certainly think superstitions about them should be avoided, while abuse victims should be taken seriously.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yeah, there's people who do that kind of stuff. There's a whole wide array of things that people do in regards to the spirit world. I recall that the word translated "witch" in the KJV actually means "poisoner", however. (Queen James had a fear of "witches".) That verse from Deuteronomy is really weird since the Israelites were known to use methods of divination (e.g. cleromancy) and that was accepted. Ritual abuse is a thing, too, and there are very prominent people involved in sex and torture rings that connect to human trafficking. I'm unsure if the people involved in those things are serious about the occult aspects of it or if it's just some trauma-based mind control thing (the very disturbing Marc Dutroux case from Belgium is a striking example of this).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Its true there are many superstitions about these and some laity perform 'Exorcisms' of many kinds. They cause all kinds of trouble, some not knowingly. Let me give you some perspective about why these beliefs are so common and so strong. It is because perverted gangs like to use myths to operate upon children. This is not limited to Christian culture by the way but happens in other places and other cultures, too. Its a terrible thing and a shame. I will tell you about some people I've met who've told me about horrific things that were done to them in the name of Satan, and I'll give you a personal experience from my childhood.

There are gangs in real life that do use these superstitions as cover, pretending to be representatives of evil -- for various reasons. I don't know all the reasons. There are child abuse victims who've been through some very weird rituals involving Satan. I cannot confirm this with links or books, but I know people. The supernatural side of their story seems bunk, but the abuse seems real. I think gangs in Europe use the Biblical symbols merely because they are embedded in the culture and scare children (and others). Not for a second do I attribute any kind of supernatural influence to those events, however I have met more than one person who claims to have been abused as a child in bizarre ritualistic circumstances. I myself was accosted by a man in a church hallway and while I wasn't raped or anything, this weird guy who kept talking about Satan loving his children gave me a very uncomfortable squeeze and had an orgasm (I learned later what it was). Nothing happened to me, but I sometimes wondered if something had. Now then, did this prove 'Satan' had minions going about raping children? Did it prove anything such as the reality of Biblical stories and exorcisms? No, because evil perverts use whatever is at hand to prey upon children mind and body. Is the desire to pervert children uncommon? No its not uncommon at all. Its a natural desire that is totally antagonistic to life as we know it and is bad for children. We see it appear in religions, in fraternities, in pornography and deep down in the forbidden recesses of every heart is every evil thing.

Some Christians take this weird stuff as evidence for Satan and all the weird demonology and superstitions that have become popular, and that is appalling to me. Its unfortunate, because it completes the cycle started by these gangs and perverts. There are numerous books about exorcisms for the evangelical style of Christianity with which I'm familiar and many superstitions. For example when I was a child I was discouraged from buying any products from Haiti (such straw hats) in case they had been cursed by a witch doctor. That is some very strong superstition I think, for people to be afraid just to purchase products!

So I agree with you that its really bad to encourage superstitions about Witches, Satan etc. I loathe exorcisms as much as leg-lengthening services. At the same time it is not merely the presence of evil symbols in religions texts which encourages these superstitions. It is common for loathsome people to use myths in connection with sexual attacks on children. I'm sorry that I cannot prove this, but maybe you will see evidences for yourself in people you meet or news. The situation is much worse than it looks, because people have deep evil lurking in them. Sometimes it comes out, and its not a person or a being. Its a genetic trait that probably exists in all people, albeit mostly forgotten. Encouraging superstitions is perhaps a contributing factor. Its complicated though, and as I think about it I think that if it weren't 'Satan' it would be something else...some other symbol for evil. Something would be used, but as it is Satan, witches, sorcerers etc are the symbols that are used. I certainly think superstitions about them should be avoided, while abuse victims should be taken seriously.

I do believe that possession and exorcism are very real things, but some people do go way overboard with it. The superstitious ones are ignorant.

 

[rusra02]

It is true people practice magic, necromancy, and other occult practices. But I do not believe they can actually communicate with the dead. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) Instead, these practices put one in contact with wicked spirits; angels who followed Satan in his rebellion against Jehovah. Jude 6 says; "the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense [spiritual] darkness for the judgment of the great day."
Jesus encountered these wicked spirits or demons in his ministry, and often expelled them from persons the demons were harassing. At times, these demons pretend to be dead persons, in an attempt to prop up Satan's lie to Eve; "You certainly will not die." (Genesis 3:4) I believe that is why God considers "anyone who inquires of the dead" as someone detestable to him. (Deuteronomy 18:12)

 

[Demonslayer]

I do believe that possession and exorcism are very real things, but some people do go way overboard with it. The superstitious ones are ignorant

I don't get it, if you're possessed by a demon how do you "go way overboard with it?" If a demon makes your head spin around and spit pea green soup at your priest, how can you tone it down?

 

[Demonslayer]

Necromancy
is a form of magic involving communication with the deceased – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily – for the purpose of divination, imparting the means to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge, or to use the deceased as a weapon,

By this defintion, isn't Jesus Christ a necromancer? He rose Lazarus from the dead. God is a necromancer too.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't get it, if you're possessed by a demon how do you "go way overboard with it?" If a demon makes your head spin around and spit pea green soup at your priest, how can you tone it down?

No, I mean with being superstitious and fanatical about it. Like how in some places in Africa, they think some kids are witches and abandon them, beat them, kill them, etc. That's lunacy.

 

[Demonslayer]

No, I mean with being superstitious and fanatical about it. Like how in some places in Africa, they think some kids are witches and abandon them, beat them, kill them, etc. That's lunacy.

I mean of course I agree it's lunacy, but if you believe in demonic possession, how can you be sure these people aren't right? I mean if you think possession is a very real thing, shouldn't we see cases of possession fairly frequently?

How can you tell a genuine witch/demon from a case where the people are just being superstitious and fanatical? After all, if you have a real demon on your hands, don't you have to take some action? You can't just sit there and let the person be possessed. Maybe there are just a lot of demons in Africa and these people are just reacting properly?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I mean of course I agree it's lunacy, but if you believe in demonic possession, how can you be sure these people aren't right? I mean if you think possession is a very real thing, shouldn't we see cases of possession fairly frequently?

How can you tell a genuine witch/demon from a case where the people are just being superstitious and fanatical? After all, if you have a real demon on your hands, don't you have to take some action? You can't just sit there and let the person be possessed. Maybe there are just a lot of demons in Africa and these people are just reacting properly?

The Catholic Church has protocols for this sort of thing. They're supposed to have a psychiatric exam beforehand. Everything else is supposed to be ruled out. Shoot, even if they are troubled by demons, getting on medication can help in many instances.

 

[Demonslayer]

Shoot, even if they are troubled by demons, getting on medication can help in many instances.

They have anti-demon medication?? The things they can do these days!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

They have anti-demon medication?? The things they can do these days!

No, some medication, like anti-psychotics and antidepressants, effect the brain in such a way that it cuts off your ability to tune into other realms. I know that from experience.

 

[Demonslayer]

No, some medication, like anti-psychotics and antidepressants, effect the brain in such a way that it cuts off your ability to tune into other realms. I know that from experience.

LOL. What a coincidence that drugs used to treat hallucinations also happens to get rid of "real" demons. You don't see the humor in that I suppose.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

LOL. What a coincidence that drugs used to treat hallucinations also happens to get rid of "real" demons. You don't see the humor in that I suppose.

I can see why you may find that humorous, but it doesn't bother me since we don't share the same understanding of things, anyway.

 

[Demonslayer]

Asprin also gets rid of Leprechauns, true story.

 

[Nietzsche]

By this defintion, isn't Jesus Christ a necromancer? He rose Lazarus from the dead. God is a necromancer too.

Technically speaking, that'd make Jesus a Lich. The risen-dead who raises the dead.

 

[picnic]

@Skwim , that is a good point in your OP. My parents were not super religious, but they believed there must be something to those things due to the Bible's rules against them. I grew up believing in those things too although I was skeptical and thought they must be mostly phony. Even when I lost faith in Christianity, I retained some belief in demons, witchcraft, and all. Now I am mostly past that.

 

[Demonslayer]

Now I am mostly past that.

Good for you. Grown adults shouldn't believe in demons, IMO.

 

[Demonslayer]

Technically speaking, that'd make Jesus a Lich. The risen-dead who raises the dead.

Sounds pretty evil if you ask me.

 

[Draka]

Good for you. Grown adults shouldn't believe in demons, IMO.

Says the person called "Demonslayer".