Genuine Witchcraft, Sorcery, Necromancy, etc.

[YmirGF]

Or I could just let you have your weird little belief and not care. I do not feel compelled to convince you on this or any other topic. I was just trying to make sure you were serious because it is such a bizarre thing to believe.

I agree. I am actually quite concerned about people to claim to have real knowledge of demons and possession. Psychology may not be perfect, but it is still light years beyond primitive speculation about so-called "spirits".

 

[delizzle]

Ever wonder what the two keys represent on the papal emblem? It represents the keys to the gates of heaven and hell that the pope has control of. Meaning the pope has the authority to absolve people of sin and condemn people to hell.

 

[Demonslayer]

Catholicism does not maintain that the pope is divine.

His shiny robe and hat sure are divine!

 

[YmirGF]

Your right. To say he was divine was not accurate. Rather I tried to say that the Catholic Church believes the Pope has divine authority on earth.

Which is sort of like a fast food chain claiming their food is nutritious.

 

[Demonslayer]

Meaning the pope has the authority to absolve people of sin and condemn people to hell.

Aquaman can summon sea creatures to do his bidding too. This stuff is amazing.

 

[Noa]

Your right. To say he was divine was not accurate. Rather I tried to say that the Catholic Church believes the Pope has divine authority on earth.

In a very limited sense in very rare occasions. Evangelicals are always running around talking about this as if Catholics believe the pope can never be wrong ever. It is speaking from the chair that is considered authoritative. And they do not speak from the chair often. It is his office that has the authority more than him, essentially.

 

[delizzle]

Aquaman can summon sea creatures to do his bidding too. This stuff is amazing.

I know it sounds crazy. If you are just reading this forum I must specify that I am not catholic and I do not believe this. I am just stating what catholic doctrine says.

 

[Noa]

I agree. I am actually quite concerned about people to claim to have real knowledge of demons and possession. Psychology may not be perfect, but it is still light years beyond primitive speculation about so-called "spirits".

Oh, I did not mean his belief in demons. That is very common. I meant his soteriological claims.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No. When comparing the Catechism of the Catholic Church with the bible there are literally hundreds of conflicts from the Catholic doctrine and the bible. I obviously don't want to outline all of them but I will tell you that the primary reason for me to leave the Catholic church is that I don't believe in the divine authority of the pope. He is a very wise man with a lot of good things to say but not divine.

I think the R. Church is moving away from popes, but I cannot say that for certain. With two living and agreeing popes there are many possibilities about what could happen in the future. That future is a long way off though, because that organization moves very slow in whatever direction it goes.

 

[YmirGF]

Oh, I did not mean his belief in demons. That is very common. I meant his soteriological claims.

Ah, ok... well, people believe pretty strange things. Sometimes it takes me awhile to understand that they are actually serious.

 

[Demonslayer]

I know it sounds crazy. If you are just reading this forum I must specify that I am not catholic and I do not believe this. I am just stating what catholic doctrine says.

It's things like this that make secular people facepalm. I'm happy you don't believe this because it's batchit insane is what it is.

It's like Limbo. Remember Limbo? The Catholic Church for hundreds of years taught that there was a place right outside of hell called Limbo, where unbaptized babies went when they died. Then one year the Pope decreed that Limbo was not real, and that God was SO forgiving, that he let unbaptized babies into Heaven.

Catholic mothers whose babies had died before baptism everywhere wept with joy! They would be reunited with their babies in Heaven after all!

Completely missing the point that, even if there is a God, how could a man in a pointy hat fundamentally change God's creation? I mean either God created a place called imbo or He didn't. Which means either the Church was wrong before the Pope changed and there was never any Limbo, or they are wrong now and Limbo still exists.

The Pope couldn't just shut down Limbo one day like it was some cosmic Guantanamo Bay. Yet millions of Catholics let this event slide right on by without questioning it. Amazing and depressing in equal measure.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Not surprisingly, the Bible doesn't take kindly to people who practice these "arts,"

Exodus 22:18
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.​

and while rarely given much press today, in announcing its hostility toward them the Bible gives them credibility. In effect, it's saying that true witchery, sorcery, necromancy, etc. actually exists. Using evil spirits, casting spells that work, communicating with the dead, and summoning up the spirits of the dead is literally possible, and no doubt going on right today.

My question then is, as a Christian do you believe this? That today there are sorcerers actually using evil spirits, and witches concocting potions that will affect the unsuspecting?

_________________________________________________________________


FYI, I've assembled definitions of these practices to help understand them*

Witchcraft
Sometimes considered equivalent to sorcery, but rarely using evil spirits, it often employs objects, potions, and incantations to cast spells and produce troubling supernatural events.

Necromancy
is a form of magic involving communication with the deceased – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily – for the purpose of divination, imparting the means to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge, or to use the deceased as a weapon,

Sorcery
is the art, practices, or spells of a person that exercises supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery.

Mediumship
is the practice of certain people—known as mediums—to purportedly mediate communication between spirits of the dead and living human beings.

Charming
the practice of casting a controlling spell over others.


* I don't claim these are the best or only definitions god had in mind when he inspired their uses.

Ex 22.18 is not the right translation..... yet it appears it served a purpose, however horrifically it might have been.

 

[Demonslayer]

yet it appears it served a purpose, however horrifically it might have been.

The Bible's mandate to kill witches served a purpose? What purpose was that, to drown or burn thousands of innocent women to death??

 

[Noa]

Theologically? I am. Do you think it's just a matter of tradition or something that I'm not practicing Judaism, or a member of countless other religious organizations? I disagree with the theology, or the interpretation of such, and I am not following the 'doctrine', of those groups. Why is this surprising or unexpected, you realize that people have different beliefs, ..

There is a scale of importance in doctrinal issues. Many people belong to denominations that they do not agree with every single point.

 

[Noa]

I agree..but those issues are also subjective. What may be ''important'' to you, may not be important to me, etc.

Yes, which I why I asked you about that importance and you answered. I was just surprised. But to each their own.

 

[Noa]

No that was someone else, I just was answering your comment as per subject.

Oh, sorry. I get non-avatar people confused sometimes.

 

[Skwim]

Ex 22.18 is not the right translation......

If you're talking about the uses of "witch," 13 versions of the Bible disagree with you. Combining these with those that use "sorceress," a very similar sort of character, the total comes to 35.

 

[Robert.Evans]

If you're talking about the uses of "witch," 13 versions of the Bible disagree with you. Combining these with those that use "sorceress," a very similar sort of character, the total comes to 35.

I am right. The bible is a translation and a version of one sort or another.

 

[Skwim]

I am right. The bible is a translation and a version of one sort or another.

So which translation are you talking about, and what should Ex 22.18 really say, and why?

 

[Robert.Evans]

So which translation are you talking about, and what should Ex 22.18 really say, and why?

My own understanding. You are free to ignore it if you wish. It refers to the passage above, that a woman should not be thrown out or she will have to 'suffer' as a 'scorceress' to make her living. I do not recall it all without looking.
I guess it makes sense if you consider them as having compassion.
The basic command of God that you should not kill would show that to be false- but equally true to some.