Genuine Witchcraft, Sorcery, Necromancy, etc.

[Skwim]

Not

My own understanding. You are free to ignore it if you wish. It refers to the passage above, that a woman should not be thrown out or she will have to 'suffer' as a 'scorceress' to make her living. I do not recall it all without looking.
I guess it makes sense if you consider them as having compassion.
The basic command of God that you should not kill would show that to be false- but equally true to some.

Not understanding this at all. What "passage above"?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Not

Not understanding this at all. What "passage above"?

Ex 22:16-18 is all of the one thought.

 

[delizzle]

My own understanding. You are free to ignore it if you wish. It refers to the passage above, that a woman should not be thrown out or she will have to 'suffer' as a 'scorceress' to make her living. I do not recall it all without looking.
I guess it makes sense if you consider them as having compassion.
The basic command of God that you should not kill would show that to be false- but equally true to some.

According to the original hebrew text the word in question. Was mkshphe. Trust me that was not a typo. Mkshphe means one-being-enchantress.

 

[Ingledsva]

Not surprisingly, the Bible doesn't take kindly to people who practice these "arts,"

Exodus 22:18
“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Deuteronomy 18:9-14
There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you.​

and while rarely given much press today, in announcing its hostility toward them the Bible gives them credibility. In effect, it's saying that true witchery, sorcery, necromancy, etc. actually exists. Using evil spirits, casting spells that work, communicating with the dead, and summoning up the spirits of the dead is literally possible, and no doubt going on right today.

My question then is, as a Christian do you believe this? That today there are sorcerers actually using evil spirits, and witches concocting potions that will affect the unsuspecting?

_________________________________________________________________


FYI, I've assembled definitions of these practices to help understand them*

Witchcraft
Sometimes considered equivalent to sorcery, but rarely using evil spirits, it often employs objects, potions, and incantations to cast spells and produce troubling supernatural events.

Necromancy
is a form of magic involving communication with the deceased – either by summoning their spirit as an apparition or raising them bodily – for the purpose of divination, imparting the means to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge, or to use the deceased as a weapon,

Sorcery
is the art, practices, or spells of a person that exercises supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery.

Mediumship
is the practice of certain people—known as mediums—to purportedly mediate communication between spirits of the dead and living human beings.

Charming
the practice of casting a controlling spell over others.


* I don't claim these are the best or only definitions god had in mind when he inspired their uses.

As usual, I find it funny that they condemned these acts, and than practiced ALL of them.

The only difference being they called on the name of THEIR God when practicing.

The Bible is full of the Hebrew practicing forms of magic.

In fact - the word translated - carpenter - actually has a connection to artificer - in the sense of a skilled Sorcerer, - which Jesus was accused of being.


*

*

 

[delizzle]

As usual, I find it funny that they condemned these acts, and than practiced ALL of them.

The only difference being they called on the name of THEIR God when practicing.

The Bible is full of the Hebrew practicing forms of magic.

In fact - the word translated - carpenter - actually has a connection to artificer - in the sense of a skilled Sorcerer, - which Jesus was accused of being.


*

*

That is the point. God wants you to seek him for help. Not demons. Btw...I have no idea what you are talking about when you compare a carpenter to a sorcerer.

I am right. The bible is a translation and a version of one sort or another.

 

[Ingledsva]

That is the point. God wants you to seek him for help. Not demons. Btw...I have no idea what you are talking about when you compare a carpenter to a sorcerer.

The point is that both sides are doing the same exact thing - just using their God's name. Only to YOU does using YHVH make it OK, and the others somehow are calling on demons.

In the original languages the word goes back to association with the word for Sorcerer.

*

 

[delizzle]

The point is that both sides are doing the same exact thing - just using their God's name. Only to YOU does using YHVH make it OK, and the others somehow are calling on demons.

In the original languages the word goes back to association with the word for Sorcerer.

*

Ok. Gotcha now. Thank you.

 

[Robert.Evans]

According to the original hebrew text the word in question. Was mkshphe. Trust me that was not a typo. Mkshphe means one-being-enchantress.

So? That is not the argument.

 

[aoji]

If a demon makes your head spin around and spit pea green soup at your priest, how can you tone it down?

By then it's too late. One gets seduced into getting further and further into it. That was just one portrayal by Hollywood, it isn't the norm. Demon possession is just as likely to explain drug addition, or any addiction for that matter, whether it be sex or alcohol, for example.

I mean if you think possession is a very real thing, shouldn't we see cases of possession fairly frequently?

We probably do, we just don't realize what it is at the time. Ask a cop to explain the look in the eyes of someone doing meth.

Just cast one single spell on camera and I'll renounce my disbelief in witches.

And chances are that you wouldn't perceive anything, just as you would not perceive someone having evil thoughts on video.

If we allow for belief in demons, it masks the underlying problem which is mental illness. Accepting people's belief in things like demonic possession is irresponsible to the person claiming possession...after all, mentally ill people often don't realize they are mentally ill.

Except that it is the demon that possesses one's mind. In your example it also took over the body, but the body follows the mind.

If you really look at the problem of mental illness you will soon realize that many around us are mentally ill, which begs the question of what mental wellness is. If you have ever had a really bad hangover and you swore you would never drink again, why did you not keep the promise? Just look at the whole of society and instead of concentrating on religious insanity look at the whole of society and you should be able to see insanity everywhere. Easy example: Iran will soon be able to have nuclear weapons. You don't see the insanity of that? The writing is on the wall and no one can read? They probably choose not to recognize the danger, just as we refuse to see the dangers of so many things we do everyday in our lives (drunk driving, texting while driving, doing drugs, divorcing, abandoning one's family, robbing banks, murdering, raping, having sex with minors or animals, racial hatred, etc.). The problem is "Who arbitrates what is mental illness?" The doctors, politicians, the Law, Society? Talking to oneself was considered an aberration, typically seen in the homeless. No anyone with a swll phone looks the same. So the question then becomes: "Why do we continue to have homeless?"

I don't believe in supernatural things so it's hard to understand the various scopes of what people believe.

And you never will. Until it happens to you. Then you will not believe, you will know. Experiential experience trumps logic and mere mental belief.

 

[delizzle]

So? That is not the argument.

I only made that statement because there was a question about the bible was talking about witches or a sorceress. I was just referencing the original hebrew to clear up the confusion. Thank you.

 

[aoji]

This right here is one HUGE reason I can't buy into ANY of it. Any belief system where supernatural occurrences are proclaimed real is, in my opinion, a display of an overwhelming intelligential ineptitude of mankind. ... I see only foolishness, brainlessness, and I lose faith in mankind's ability to simply accept reality for what it is - there is a true loss of genuine human to human contact, I feel, when the basis for many humans coming together to form bonds is done on the pretense of a false and completely ignorant mess of radically fantastic ideas.

"Intelligential ineptitude of mankind"? Holocaust. Genocide. Prejudice. Infanticide. War. Forced sterilization. Hatred. Coup d' état. Want more examples? Any political system, any economic system, any philosophical system, and yes, any religious system.

You obviously have an Ideal of Humanity, as if Humanity is somehow an abstract concept. Well, that is exactly what it is - an ideal, an ideology. The problem is not the world, it is one's perception of the world. Humanism is fine until Nature deals one a heavy blow. If you do not emote and grieve upon the death of a loved one then many would say that you are not human. But not being Human is much better than being inhuman, where one causes another pain and suffering.

I lose faith in mankind's ability to simply accept reality for what it is

Reality? Really? Who decides what Reality is? The Politicians? The Rich? The Corporations? Reality is whatever your brain tells your mind to believe.To want to turn our backs on emotionalism after realizing that it was emotionalism that allowed us to evolve from animals is disingenuous, no? Logic isn't all it's cracked up to be. If it were you would not do illogical things. Cold hearted people don't know what love is. Love is not logical, it is purely emotional. So that must also be an ineptitude of humanity. It is foolish and brainless, no?

 

[Ingledsva]

Ex 22:16-18 is all of the one thought.

What? Exo 22:18 doesn't go with 16 and 17.


Exo 22:16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.

Exo 22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

*

Exo 22:18 is talking about sorcerers both male and female. The same word is used for the sorcerers being called by the kings.

*

Exo 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Exo 22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

Exo 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.



*

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

"Intelligential ineptitude of mankind"? Holocaust. Genocide. Prejudice. Infanticide. War. Forced sterilization. Hatred. Coup d' état. Want more examples? Any political system, any economic system, any philosophical system, and yes, any religious system.

Agreed. Presented with only 2 options to choose from: "intelligent" and "not intelligent", all of those things you mentioned get a "not intelligent" stamp. What exactly is your point?

You obviously have an Ideal of Humanity, as if Humanity is somehow an abstract concept. Well, that is exactly what it is - an ideal, an ideology. The problem is not the world, it is one's perception of the world. Humanism is fine until Nature deals one a heavy blow. If you do not emote and grieve upon the death of a loved one then many would say that you are not human. But not being Human is much better than being inhuman, where one causes another pain and suffering.

You even said it yourself here - the problem is "one's perception of the world". We all muck it up. We all place invalid and foolish assumptions against what we see and call those assumptions a mirror. Nothing is ever good enough in it's perceptible state. And why not? What are we afraid of?

Reality? Really? Who decides what Reality is? The Politicians? The Rich? The Corporations? Reality is whatever your brain tells your mind to believe.To want to turn our backs on emotionalism after realizing that it was emotionalism that allowed us to evolve from animals is disingenuous, no? Logic isn't all it's cracked up to be. If it were you would not do illogical things. Cold hearted people don't know what love is. Love is not logical, it is purely emotional. So that must also be an ineptitude of humanity. It is foolish and brainless, no?

Perception - what you are able to perceive. I merely ask that everyone simply remain accountable and responsible for what they truly perceive. I know for a fact that this isn't the case. Is this ability to play make-believe, and want others to play along, something that allowed us to "evolve from animals" (what I assumed you meant here is that we "moved beyond", or realized we were "more" than animals - an arbitrary and misconceived notion, by the way). Because I assure you, animals have no such need, still have the capacity to "love", and get along just fine without the things you initially listed like prejudice, hatred, war, etc. The only exceptions come from the animals that come closest to the thing we value ourselves to be - "sentient". Chimpanzees, for example, marching to neighboring camps of their kind and killing the males, taking the females, and brutally killing and even eating the babies. The closer a thing gets to that eidolon "human", the more deplorable the extremes of that thing's behavior. We should all learn from this... and refuse to play along. And not because an imaginary force told us to, but because it is "intelligent" to do so.