George H. W. Bush's Comments Towards Atheists

[Caprice]

Yeah, so what? I mean, what if the president publicly admonished all religions other than Christianity? I mean, it's only his silly ole opinion.

So is he supposed to just turn off his convictions just because he is president (or vice president or whatever).

Seriously, is that what you want? You want people when they get elected to somehow just forget about the God that they not only faithfully serve, but believe will put them in a lake of fire if they do otherwise? You're allowed to have your opinion too, but it is my opinion that expecting a politician to forget their religion entirely is laughable.

 

[Fluffy]

Seriously, is that what you want? You want people when they get elected to somehow just forget about the God that they not only faithfully serve, but believe will put them in a lake of fire if they do otherwise? You're allowed to have your opinion too, but it is my opinion that expecting a politician to forget their religion entirely is laughable.

Don't you find such views contradictory to seperation of chuch and state? How can a politician make any decision that is not religiously biased if his views are rooted in religion?

 

[Ormiston]

So is he supposed to just turn off his convictions just because he is president (or vice president or whatever).

Seriously, is that what you want? You want people when they get elected to somehow just forget about the God that they not only faithfully serve, but believe will put them in a lake of fire if they do otherwise? You're allowed to have your opinion too, but it is my opinion that expecting a politician to forget their religion entirely is laughable.

Ummmm, yeah! What happens at work if you start preaching religion!? You GET FIRED! It's a rediculus notion that you seem to think that people are not responsible for what they say in public!? And, how come you are not outraged by such slander!? Perhaps you are the biased one.

 

[Caprice]

Don't you find such views contradictory to seperation of chuch and state? How can a politician make any decision that is not religiously biased if his views are rooted in religion?

Curious, would you be the sort that would suggest disalowing those with religious underpinnings from holding elected office?

Also, separation of church and state is not actually in the Constitution. Here is a concise explaination, although you're welcome to check on it yourself.
http://www.achw.org/sepcs.htm

 

[Ormiston]

Curious, would you be the sort that would suggest disalowing those with religious underpinnings from holding elected office?

Also, separation of church and state is not actually in the Constitution. Here is a concise explaination, although you're welcome to check on it yourself.
http://www.achw.org/sepcs.htm

Who ever suggested that!? But, regardless of religion, people should be accountable for their statements. And are you suggesting that seperation of Church and State is a bad idea?

 

[Caprice]

Ummmm, yeah! What happens at work if you start preaching religion!? You GET FIRED! It's a rediculus notion that you seem to think that people are not responsible for what they say in public!? And, how come you are not outraged by such slander!? Perhaps you are the biased one.

This is what freedom of speech protects: My right to be an idiot and say stupid things. I agree I cannot preach from my position at work and the president cannot preach from his position in the government, but it is unrealistic to expect everyone to just turn off their religion -- a lot like me expecting a homosexual to just turn off their sexual orientation (which I don't).

 

[Caprice]

Who ever suggested that!?

It is the conclusion I drew from your statements (errantly perhaps, but perception is reality so it doesn't matter wrether that is what you meant, that is what I thought you meant).

But, regardless of religion, people should be accountable for their statements.

To some degree, yes. He said nothing criminal so the only manner by which you may truely hold him accountable is to whine about the statement (which you are doing) and refuse to vote for him or associate with him.

And are you suggesting that seperation of Church and State is a bad idea?

There should be no state religion (The Church of the United States so-to-speak) and government should not interfere with people's right to practice religion. The statement from the man doesn't create a situation where either issue are taking place.

 

[Fluffy]

Curious, would you be the sort that would suggest disalowing those with religious underpinnings from holding elected office?

Not to that extent no simply because atheists are just as likely to promote bigotry, in my opinion, as theists. But I would be very suspicious of any comment made which might have a direct impact on a parties success.

To suggest that atheists should not be considered citizens is to deny them the vote. Therefore this is not merely one's opinions on a matter, no matter how controversial. They reveal an underlying motive, to skew those allowed to vote in favour of a given party.

If I were part of a political party and suggested that all those people who did vote for me should no longer have the right to vote, would you not feel outraged if you were one of the people who might be affected? This is the essential implications of the original statement.

 

[Ormiston]

This is what freedom of speech protects: My right to be an idiot and say stupid things. I agree I cannot preach from my position at work and the president cannot preach from his position in the government, but it is unrealistic to expect everyone to just turn off their religion -- a lot like me expecting a homosexual to just turn off their sexual orientation (which I don't).

Who said anything about religion!? I said people should be accountable for what they say in public. If the country votes someone into office then they just have to live with that persons religous views. But being a bigot is being a bigot and it has nothing to do with religion. Where in the bible does it say that atheists should not be considered citizens? I'm still curious why you don't admonish Bush for his descriminatory comments.

 

[Ormiston]

Not to that extent no simply because atheists are just as likely to promote bigotry, in my opinion, as theists. But I would be very suspicious of any comment made which might have a direct impact on a parties success.

To suggest that atheists should not be considered citizens is to deny them the vote. Therefore this is not merely one's opinions on a matter, no matter how controversial. They reveal an underlying motive, to skew those allowed to vote in favour of a given party.

If I were part of a political party and suggested that all those people who did vote for me should no longer have the right to vote, would you not feel outraged if you were one of the people who might be affected? This is the essential implications of the original statement.

Exactly! Words to hold power especially when spoken by an authority figure. Would you allow Hitler his right to speak?

 

[Caprice]

To suggest that atheists should not be considered citizens is to deny them the vote. Therefore this is not merely one's opinions on a matter, no matter how controversial. They reveal an underlying motive, to skew those allowed to vote in favour of a given party.

Interesting perspective, but I can at least see why you're upset about it. Keep in mind tho, the President of the United States does not have the authority to deny athiests the right to vote, so it is still merely an opinion.

Who said anything about religion!?

Fluffy brought it up so it is now a relevent point to the discussion (although I'd dare say it was from the begining).

I said people should be accountable for what they say in public. If the country votes someone into office then they just have to live with that persons religous views.

Indeed.

But being a bigot is being a bigot and it has nothing to do with religion.

True, but being a bigot is not a crime.

Where in the bible does it say that atheists should not be considered citizens?

It likely doesn't say anything of the sort.

I'm still curious why you don't admonish Bush for his descriminatory comments.

Why should I? It is merely an opinion. I happen to appreciate it when people are brutaly honest even if their thoughts are unpopular. I generally like people who make people mad because they are likely the most honest of everyone, even if their opinions are entirely idiotic.

Would you allow Hitler his right to speak?

Yes. It is a fundamental tennent of our society that people are allowed to speak their mind.

 

[BUDDY]

Don't you find such views contradictory to seperation of chuch and state? How can a politician make any decision that is not religiously biased if his views are rooted in religion?

That is a red herring. Everyone that has some type of moral, has it rooted in something. For most people it is in some type of religious, moral belief. Expecting someone to forgoe their freedom to practice their religion once they reach political office is not a very realistic expectation.

 

[Fluffy]

That is a red herring. Everyone that has some type of moral, has it rooted in something. For most people it is in some type of religious, moral belief. Expecting someone to forgoe their freedom to practice their religion once they reach political office is not a very realistic expectation.

Yup that it is fair enough . I hereby retract that statement.

 

[Majikthise]

As an atheist myself I can truthfully say that the comment doesn't bother me. It's his opinion ,and the freedom to practice atheism is not in any danger of being outlawed because of it. There are plenty of atheists out there who rail against christianity , but I don't see it going anywhere in the near future. Freedom of speech does include every American and I'm sure we've all heard a lot worse.

 

[Scuba Pete]

For me, the biggest draw to become an atheist is that Dubya doesn't like them!

 

[almifkhar]

bush is such a hypricate! he is a person who hides under the flag of relgion for his own ends.

 

[Caprice]

....... lmao

Cheap shot... and completely irrelivent to the topic of discussion in this thread.

 

[Ori]

Let's keep this on topic please.

 

[Original Freak]

I say get all the atheists mad, make 'em move away. Let's see how scientific research goes for the US then.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

Cheap shot... and completely irrelivent to the topic of discussion in this thread.

I'm from Florida, I'm allowed. How about this one: