German Coalition Government Collapses After Firing of Finance Minister

[Debater Slayer]

The coalition government in Germany has collapsed after the firing of the finance minister:

BERLIN — Germany’s three-party ruling coalition collapsed on Wednesday evening after Chancellor Olaf Scholz announced he will fire Finance Minister Christian Lindner over persistent rifts on spending and economic reforms, a move that paves the way for a snap election within months.

The firing effectively ejects Lindner’s fiscally conservative Free Democratic Party (FDP) from the troubled coalition, forcing Scholz to call for a confidence vote that he said would take place on Jan. 15. If, as is likely, Scholz loses that vote, a snap election is set to take place by March.

The renewed political instability in Germany came just hours after Donald Trump’s clear win in the U.S. election, a result that stunned German political leaders, who depend on American military might for their country’s defense and fear Trump’s tariff policies will hobble German industry.

Scholz sets stage for German snap election as government collapses

Germany’s chancellor said a confidence vote will first take place on Jan. 15 after announcing he would fire his finance minister.

www.politico.eu

This is happening against the backdrop not just of a Trump win but also of the increasing popularity of the far-right AfD, which largely opposes military aid to Ukraine and this year became the first far-right party in Germany to win a state election since World War II:

German far right AfD hails 'historic' election victory in east

Germany's anti-immigration party Alternative for Germany is on course for victory in Thuringia.

www.bbc.com

Pessimistic young Germans turning to far right, says study – DW – 04/23/2024

German teenagers and young adults find themselves increasingly unsatisfied and likely to vote for the far right, according to a survey. Fears about prosperity are highlighted as a possible cause.

www.dw.com

Rise of far right in Germany reflects ‘frustration’ with government

www.france24.com

Sadly, it looks increasingly likely that Ukraine may be forced to give up territory if support from the US and Germany, the EU's largest economy, dwindles or stops altogether (in the case of the former). The world may be in for even more instability and uncertainty in coming years if things keep progressing at their current rate.

What are your thoughts on this development? Will it be significant in the grand scheme of things? Is the West's ability to push back on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and China's growing power diminishing or threatened by this and other recent developments?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... Is the West's ability to push back on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and China's growing power diminishing or threatened by this and other recent developments?

Civilization is hard when civil intention is degraded. No, there has been no loss in ability, simply intentionality.

 

[Stevicus]

What are your thoughts on this development? Will it be significant in the grand scheme of things? Is the West's ability to push back on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and China's growing power diminishing or threatened by this and other recent developments?

I've noticed that a number of countries in Europe are moving further to the right. I think it will be significant, although I'm not sure if I see it as an indication of diminishing power. More than likely, it will mean a shift in power and a shift in geopolitical perceptions and national security aspirations. The priorities may also shift.

One possibility: Trump may decide that Iran is a bigger threat than Russia is. He may have to throw a bone to China and Russia to get them to drop their support of Iran and give Trump a free hand to neutralize that country.

 

[Heyo]

The coalition government in Germany has collapsed after the firing of the finance minister:

Which was way overdue. The FDP has ignored the coalition treaty many times, and Lindner has been undermining the common agenda constantly.

This is happening against the backdrop not just of a Trump win but also of the increasing popularity of the far-right AfD, which largely opposes military aid to Ukraine and this year became the first far-right party in Germany to win a state election since World War II:


Sadly, it looks increasingly likely that Ukraine may be forced to give up territory if support from the US and Germany, the EU's largest economy, dwindles or stops altogether (in the case of the former). The world may be in for even more instability and uncertainty in coming years if things keep progressing at their current rate.

What are your thoughts on this development? Will it be significant in the grand scheme of things? Is the West's ability to push back on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and China's growing power diminishing or threatened by this and other recent developments?

The extremists (not only the right is against Ukraine help, but also the far left) are still a minority in Germany overall.

 

[Regiomontanus]

The coalition government in Germany has collapsed after the firing of the finance minister:

Scholz sets stage for German snap election as government collapses

Germany’s chancellor said a confidence vote will first take place on Jan. 15 after announcing he would fire his finance minister.

www.politico.eu

This is happening against the backdrop not just of a Trump win but also of the increasing popularity of the far-right AfD, which largely opposes military aid to Ukraine and this year became the first far-right party in Germany to win a state election since World War II:

German far right AfD hails 'historic' election victory in east

Germany's anti-immigration party Alternative for Germany is on course for victory in Thuringia.

www.bbc.com

Pessimistic young Germans turning to far right, says study – DW – 04/23/2024

German teenagers and young adults find themselves increasingly unsatisfied and likely to vote for the far right, according to a survey. Fears about prosperity are highlighted as a possible cause.

www.dw.com

Rise of far right in Germany reflects ‘frustration’ with government

www.france24.com

Sadly, it looks increasingly likely that Ukraine may be forced to give up territory if support from the US and Germany, the EU's largest economy, dwindles or stops altogether (in the case of the former). The world may be in for even more instability and uncertainty in coming years if things keep progressing at their current rate.

What are your thoughts on this development? Will it be significant in the grand scheme of things? Is the West's ability to push back on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and China's growing power diminishing or threatened by this and other recent developments?

I don't know much about German politics, but if this shake up means cutting off money/funding the slaughter in Ukraine, well, that sounds like a positive development.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Less globalism and war sounds wonderful to me!

 

[Flankerl]

This is happening against the backdrop not just of a Trump win but also of the increasing popularity of the far-right AfD, which largely opposes military aid to Ukraine and this year became the first far-right party in Germany to win a state election since World War II:

Ugh. State wide popularity is not indicative of nation wide popularity.
The AfD trails around 16-17% federally. It used to be around 23% a year ago.

I've noticed that a number of countries in Europe are moving further to the right.

At the last federal election right wing parties had around 38% of the vote.
Now they poll at around 39,8%.

Whoop dee doo.

And yes I didn't count the AfD because it's a Nazi party.

I think it will be significant, although I'm not sure if I see it as an indication of diminishing power. More than likely, it will mean a shift in power and a shift in geopolitical perceptions and national security aspirations. The priorities may also shift.

lol the CDU/CSU is more likely to ramp up defence than the current government which was held back by the Market-Liberal FDP.

And that equals more power against the Russians.

 

[Flankerl]

 

[Debater Slayer]

Ugh. State wide popularity is not indicative of nation wide popularity.

I'm aware. I still find it quite alarming that an embellished neo-Nazi party has won anything in an election in the first place, though—in Germany of all places.

The AfD trails around 16-17% federally. It used to be around 23% a year ago.

I hope it only trails for the course of its entire existence.

 

[Heyo]

I hope it only trails for the course of its entire existence.

There is a discussion ongoing to try to ban the AfD. That is possible in Germany if a party is declared unconstitutional, though it only ever happened once in the history since 1945.

 

[Flankerl]

There is a discussion ongoing to try to ban the AfD. That is possible in Germany if a party is declared unconstitutional, though it only ever happened once in the history since 1945.

Twice.
SRP in 1952
KPD in 1956

Both supported by Moscow.
Ah history rhymes.

 

[Twilight Hue]

One possibility: Trump may decide that Iran is a bigger threat than Russia is. He may have to throw a bone to China and Russia to get them to drop their support of Iran and give Trump a free hand to neutralize that country.

Considering the Intel, Iran might want to reconsider their military ambitions. Particularly in light they are posing a credible threat to this nation's president among other officials.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-received-intel-iranian-plot-assassinate-trump-cnn-reports-2024-07-16/

 

[Stevicus]

At the last federal election right wing parties had around 38% of the vote.
Now they poll at around 39,8%.

Whoop dee doo.

And yes I didn't count the AfD because it's a Nazi party.

I wasn't just referring to Germany, but France, the Netherlands, Italy, Hungary, and Poland (to name a few) appear to be far more right-wing now than they were 40-50 years ago. I would call that a significant shift from what it used to be, but maybe not worthy of a "whoop dee doo." Still, it's worth paying attention to. Even Russia and Ukraine are more right-wing than they used to be. It's all part of the same general observable trend.

lol the CDU/CSU is more likely to ramp up defence than the current government which was held back by the Market-Liberal FDP.

And that equals more power against the Russians.

Those acronyms mean nothing to me.

 

[Flankerl]

I wasn't just referring to Germany, but France, the Netherlands, Italy, Hungary, and Poland (to name a few) appear to be far more right-wing now than they were 40-50 years ago. I would call that a significant shift from what it used to be, but maybe not worthy of a "whoop dee doo." Still, it's worth paying attention to. Even Russia and Ukraine are more right-wing than they used to be. It's all part of the same general observable trend.

lol 40 to 50 years ago.
What ridiculous time frame, that was in the middle of the Cold War.

Russia is also not more right-wing than it used to be.
It has always had the same Russian imperialism, just some time with a red shade.

Those acronyms mean nothing to me.

I hate it too when google is broken.

 

[Stevicus]

lol 40 to 50 years ago.
What ridiculous time frame, that was in the middle of the Cold War.

I guess I just look at things from a wider vantage point. You can call it whatever you like, but that's just your opinion.

Russia is also not more right-wing than it used to be.
It has always had the same Russian imperialism, just some time with a red shade.

A lot of people think that way about Russia, as if they're just some big boogieman of the world. I grew familiar with that view during the Cold War.

I hate it too when google is broken.

It seems to me if you had some point to make, it would be up to you to elaborate, not expect me to look up stuff on Google.

 

[Heyo]

I wasn't just referring to Germany, but France, the Netherlands, Italy, Hungary, and Poland (to name a few) appear to be far more right-wing now than they were 40-50 years ago.

You don't have to go back 40 years, the most obvious shift happened a mere decade ago. France got the le Pen family, the Netherlands got Wilders, Italy got @Estro Felino, Hungary got Orban and Poland got the PIS. All in about that timeframe. And Austria recently avoided a far right government. But even though the far right got stronger, the opposition to them is also clear. The PIS is gone, France remains centred.

I would call that a significant shift from what it used to be, but maybe not worthy of a "whoop dee doo." Still, it's worth paying attention to. Even Russia and Ukraine are more right-wing than they used to be. It's all part of the same general observable trend.



Those acronyms mean nothing to me.

They should, if you want to talk German politics. FYI, CDU/CSU are the conservative party, FDP are the libertarians. (By European standards, by US standards the CDU would be called bloody socialist by the Democrats.)

 

[Estro Felino]

There is a discussion ongoing to try to ban the AfD. That is possible in Germany if a party is declared unconstitutional, though it only ever happened once in the history since 1945.

If the GG were still valid, there would be consequences for violating Article 26.
Because sending warfare meant to invade Russia, is unconstitutional.
So... it means that the Constitution is just a piece of paper, so the AfD can do whatever they want.

 

[Flankerl]

I guess I just look at things from a wider vantage point. You can call it whatever you like, but that's just your opinion.

So when do you expect the return of the Whigs and Federalists in the US?

A lot of people think that way about Russia, as if they're just some big boogieman of the world. I grew familiar with that view during the Cold War.

Ah yeah sure.
Let's just ignore all the people Russia previously ruled over who are happy that they are gone and do everything in their power that it stays that way.

Out of curiosity, how do you explain the forced expulsions of people from the Baltics into Siberia where most of them died or the massacre of Katyn?

It seems to me if you had some point to make, it would be up to you to elaborate, not expect me to look up stuff on Google.

Refusing to look up two abbreviations which would take a few seconds makes you seem rather immature.
Though I already get the gist of it and your ideology.
It's fine.

 

[Stevicus]

You don't have to go back 40 years, the most obvious shift happened a mere decade ago. France got the le Pen family, the Netherlands got Wilders, Italy got @Estro Felino, Hungary got Orban and Poland got the PIS. All in about that timeframe. And Austria recently avoided a far right government. But even though the far right got stronger, the opposition to them is also clear. The PIS is gone, France remains centred.

They should, if you want to talk German politics. FYI, CDU/CSU are the conservative party, FDP are the libertarians. (By European standards, by US standards the CDU would be called bloody socialist by the Democrats.)

All I was doing was making a general observation about European countries shifting further to the right, which you have confirmed is true and which the other poster denied. I didn't intend any kind of in-depth discussion on German politics, just a general trend I've noticed from that side of the world.

 

[Stevicus]

So when do you expect the return of the Whigs and Federalists in the US?

The current political parties have different names, but I would not deny the influence of these parties in the history and development of America.

Ah yeah sure.
Let's just ignore all the people Russia previously ruled over who are happy that they are gone and do everything in their power that it stays that way.

Out of curiosity, how do you explain the forced expulsions of people from the Baltics into Siberia where most of them died or the massacre of Katyn?

I don't ignore anything, but disingenuous sanctimony and faux outrage do not impress me much. I know that most governments, especially those of the larger, more powerful countries, have shady and atrocious pasts. To single out only one of them as the world's "boogieman" just doesn't strike me as an accurate and objective presentation of human history.

Refusing to look up two abbreviations which would take a few seconds makes you seem rather immature.
Though I already get the gist of it and your ideology.
It's fine.

Even then, your comment didn't really say much and didn't even address the point I was making. It was in response to the OP's question: "Is the West's ability to push back on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and China's growing power diminishing or threatened by this and other recent developments?" The question was about the West and the suggestion that the West's ability to push back against Russia and China was diminishing. I didn't believe that was the case, and then you chimed in with some comment which appeared off point. So, looking up those acronyms on Google would not have helped one bit.