Giving the Devil His Due

[Tiberius]

If you think the biblical God is a murderer, I feel very sorry for you. May be the biblical devil has something to do with it?

Yeah, it's not like he flooded the world and drowned everyone, or sent plagues that killed the firstborn of all the Egyptians, or allowed horrible things to happen to Job's family or anything...

False simile as Adam and Eve were not children.

Quibbling over minutiae is the last refuge of the person who has no argument.

God does not need to account for giving free will to humanity. The temptation to sin was concomitant with free will being given, and the fall was ultimately for glorifying God's mercy and his overlooking of sin, which is all part of the equation in religion, which provides the comprehensive answer to everything. Adam and Eve did not kill themselves. They just didn't experience heaven on earth. Although they sinned, they didn't necessarily rebel against God to the point of being disowned by God, for they produced a godly lineage.

You see it's not just the sin itself that the devil desires, (becaue God's mercy is greater than indivdual sins unless very grave) so much as outright rebellion against God. The devil wants people to join him in rebellion. That has to be a human decision.

And there you go, making excuses, just like I said.

If you really believed that was a valid argument, would you accept it as a reason why I let bad things happen to other people when I could have stopped them?

 

[Tiberius]

sounds like that brunette that dumped me.....soooooooo long
ago

So you agree?

 

[blü 2]

oh...you meant Trump?

no ...he's not the devil

but I'm sure they've cut a deal

No, Trump would sell you the cigarettes. &c. But you're right, they've cut a deal ─ quite a few over the years.

 

[eik]

Yeah, it's not like he flooded the world and drowned everyone, or sent plagues that killed the firstborn of all the Egyptians, or allowed horrible things to happen to Job's family or anything...

Quibbling over minutiae is the last refuge of the person who has no argument.

Speak for yourself. I fail to see how the mode of death of any indivdual, or punishment for abuse of free will, supports the atheist argument.

Fact is you atheists have no arguments except hypocritical quibbling and fault finding and wholesale abolition of the principles of human morality as announced in the Old Testamant.

And there you go, making excuses, just like I said.

If you really believed that was a valid argument, would you accept it as a reason why I let bad things happen to other people when I could have stopped them?

No, because you are not God, you made no-one and nothing, you have no right to self-glorification, you have ambiguous morality and principles qua atheism, you have not been entrusted with the government of the world, you refuse to accept that you were created, or owe a debt to your creator.

In short I wouldn't credit you with having any beneficial intent towards the human race.

 

[Tiberius]

Speak for yourself. I fail to see how the mode of death of any indivdual, or punishment for abuse of free will, supports the atheist argument.

So you freely admit that God is responsible for the deaths of many people, yet you claim he ISN'T a murderer?

How does that work?

Fact is you atheists have no arguments except hypocritical quibbling and fault finding and wholesale abolition of the principles of human morality as announced in the Old Testamant.

Of course, you just hold up the Old Testament as the pinnacle of morality, despite the fact that it makes outrageous claims like a woman should marry her rapist.

No, because you are not God, you made no-one and nothing, you have no right to self-glorification, you have ambiguous morality and principles qua atheism, you have not been entrusted with the government of the world, you refuse to accept that you were created, or owe a debt to your creator.

In short I wouldn't credit you with having any beneficial intent towards the human race.

And yet God, who has the blood of millions on his hands, does have beneficial intent towards Humans.

And are you suggesting that God can take our lives whenever he wants simply because he made us? Are you suggesting that we are God's property, and he can kill us with as much justification as I can choose to smash my phone?

 

[eik]

So you freely admit that God is responsible for the deaths of many people, yet you claim he ISN'T a murderer?

How does that work?

He who gives life is entitled to take it away (Job 1:21b The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord).

Of course, you just hold up the Old Testament as the pinnacle of morality, despite the fact that it makes outrageous claims like a woman should marry her rapist.

The word "rape" doesn't mandate violence but "prevail." cf, Deu 22:28. Context is everything. Unless the woman screams, she is deemed complicit. There was no noise protection in those days. People lived in close proximity. If she fails to scream, she has to get married. The test of whether she had to get married was whether she screamed.

And yet God, who has the blood of millions on his hands, does have beneficial intent towards Humans.

Well you're still alive despite disowning God. So what are you complaining about?

And are you suggesting that God can take our lives whenever he wants simply because he made us? Are you suggesting that we are God's property, and he can kill us with as much justification as I can choose to smash my phone?

God doesn't have to give any justification to you, but you can be sure that God is not a human being to be equated with your puerile anthropomorphisms. To suppose it comes from listening to the devil.

Yehovah 'Adonay is the theme of the OT. The "Sovereign Lord" does what he wants and is not accountable to you, although God is fully prepared to be accountable for everything, if you actually bother to read the bible. But so often you guys just jump to conclusions, such as in "God condones rape." And then when you give up on one, you move on to the next one, And then you try the same thing out on someone else. All you ever do is try to find fault with God, which is why things won't turn out well for you when you refuse his mercy.

 

[Tiberius]

He who gives life is entitled to take it away (Job 1:21b The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord).

You may be happy to be considered the plaything of someone more powerful than you, to be used, abused and discarded at his convenience, but I am not.

The word "rape" doesn't mandate violence but "prevail." cf, Deu 22:28. Context is everything. Unless the woman screams, she is deemed complicit. There was no noise protection in those days. People lived in close proximity. If she fails to scream, she has to get married. The test of whether she had to get married was whether she screamed.

And you don't see a problem with that kind of sexual violence? What if the rapist threatened to kill her if she screamed?

Well you're still alive despite disowning God. So what are you complaining about?

Exactly what one would expect if God didn't exist, right? Fictional beings don't kill anyone.

God doesn't have to give any justification to you, but you can be sure that God is not a human being to be equated with your puerile anthropomorphisms. To suppose it comes from listening to the devil.

Yehovah 'Adonay is the theme of the OT. The "Sovereign Lord" does what he wants and is not accountable to you, although God is fully prepared to be accountable for everything, if you actually bother to read the bible. But so often you guys just jump to conclusions, such as in "God condones rape." And then when you give up on one, you move on to the next one, And then you try the same thing out on someone else. All you ever do is try to find fault with God, which is why things won't turn out well for you when you refuse his mercy.

And more excuses being made for God.

 

[ChristineM]

You're looking at it all the wrong way.

You think?

God is defined as someone who is axiomatically released from any charge of "genocide" because he is the author of life itself.

There are more definitions of gods than there are god ideas that have been worshipped through history. Yours is nothing special and release from the crime of genocide us your excuse, not mine

It's important to grasp that your life was given to you by one greater than you, rather than being your inherent possession.

My parents gave me life, unless you can prove otherwise you are flogging a dead horse

No, Christians didn't drive you from God

.

Yes they did, you know nothing about the incident, so you are just making up BS to massag your own ego. So here we finish, i will not debate with such deliberate ignorance.

 

[eik]

You think?

There are more definitions of gods than there are god ideas that have been worshipped through history. Yours is nothing special and release from the crime of genocide us your excuse, not mine

My parents gave me life, unless you can prove otherwise you are flogging a dead horse

.

Yes they did, you know nothing about the incident, so you are just making up BS to massag your own ego. So here we finish, i will not debate with such deliberate ignorance.

Is not defiance of God ipso facto an ego trip? BTW, you never had any intention of debating anything. You're only here to massage your own ego.

 

[eik]

You may be happy to be considered the plaything of someone more powerful than you, to be used, abused and discarded at his convenience, but I am not.

The bible makes it plain that atheists will be discarded unless they repent:

Rom 9:21"Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? 22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction?"

And you don't see a problem with that kind of sexual violence? What if the rapist threatened to kill her if she screamed?

The Israelites had courts of law.

Exactly what one would expect if God didn't exist, right? Fictional beings don't kill anyone.

Give it time. God has an infinite amount of time. Your's is limited.

And more excuses being made for God.

You seem only to be bent on attacking your own delusional anthropomorphisms? If you see a man beating shadows, I guess you'd be best to leave him to it.

 

[ChristineM]

Is not defiance of God ipso facto an ego trip? BTW, you never had any intention of debating anything. You're only here to massage your own ego.

When you make up BS based on nothing but ignorance and make accusations based on that ignorance there is only of us massaging our egos and its not me.

 

[Tiberius]

The bible makes it plain that atheists will be discarded unless they repent:

Rom 9:21"Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? 22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction?"

You do understand that quoting the Bible to convince me to believe the Bible isn't gonna work, right?

The Israelites had courts of law.

So what? Rape is still rape. Making excuses for why it doesn't count only serve to perpetuate violence against women.

Give it time. God has an infinite amount of time. Your's is limited.

Yeah, this is what you look like...

You seem only to be bent on attacking your own delusional anthropomorphisms? If you see a man beating shadows, I guess you'd be best to leave him to it.

*Shrugs* If you can't do anything except make excuses for God to justify the inconsistencies in the stories you;ve been told, that's not my problem.

 

[eik]

You do understand that quoting the Bible to convince me to believe the Bible isn't gonna work, right?

No I quoted the bible to prove you a liar (see below).

So what? Rape is still rape. Making excuses for why it doesn't count only serve to perpetuate violence against women.

I made no excuses. Your slanders show you only raised the subject for ulterior motives. I should have known better than respond to you.

Yeah, this is what you look like...

Again another lie. I never said anything about you being smitten. I fact I suggested the contrary by quoting the bible directly: that God forbears to smite to fulfil his purposes in those to whom he shows mercy. Shows you can't even read what's put in front of you.

*Shrugs* If you can't do anything except make excuses for God to justify the inconsistencies in the stories you;ve been told, that's not my problem.

I haven't made excuses for any inconsistencies. I guess you were only enticing a response to label it as an excuse. Your libels on the bible aren't even worth responding to as they (a) they raise no points of genuine issue, (b) they're spouted for ulterior motives.

 

[Tiberius]

No I quoted the bible to prove you a liar (see below).

Totally irrelevant. You are the one who claimed that God has the right to take your life away from you at any time and for any reason.

I made no excuses. Your slanders show you only raised the subject for ulterior motives. I should have known better than respond to you.

Yes, you did make excuses. You claimed in post 86 that if the woman doesn't scream, she is complicit. That is victim blaming and it is disgusting.

Again another lie. I never said anything about you being smitten. I fact I suggested the contrary by quoting the bible directly: that God forbears to smite to fulfil his purposes in those to whom he shows mercy. Shows you can't even read what's put in front of you.

You don't seem to be able to follow a simple conversation. You suggested I was lucky that God had let me live despite disowning God. I said that this is exactly what we'd expect from a non-existent deity. You then said I should just give it time, clearly suggesting that God is planning something for me. Just like the cartoon pope in the video I posted - "He's a cookin' something up!"

I haven't made excuses for any inconsistencies. I guess you were only enticing a response to label it as an excuse. Your libels on the bible aren't even worth responding to as they (a) they raise no points of genuine issue, (b) they're spouted for ulterior motives.

And now excuses for your excuses. Typical creationist tactics.

 

[Thief]

there seems digression to pointing fingers at God

can we give the Devil his due?

 

[tayla]

I typically list attributes when asked to describe God

I have not attempted the same for the Devil

In Christianity, the Devil must be the creator of the universe -- that's the only way he/she/it could be the source of all suffering (pain, evil).

 

[Thief]

In Christianity, the Devil must be the creator of the universe -- that's the only way he/she/it could be the source of all suffering (pain, evil).

nay.....
I know of no Christian faith with that belief

 

[ppp]

nay.....
I know of no Christian faith with that belief

Though it would make sense if the author of the Bible were actually Satan, and he has been deceiving Christians under a nom de plume.

 

[Thief]

Though it would make sense if the author of the Bible were actually Satan, and he has been deceiving Christians under a nom de plume.

giving the Devil THAT much credit .....might be a bit too much

 

[ppp]

giving the Devil THAT much credit .....might be a bit too much

Giving either God or Satan credit for existing is too much credit. But considering the words and deeds attributed to "God" in the Bible, he is, at the very least, the evil one.