Global Warming: Fact or Farce

[Neo-Logic]

Let's not forget we're not sure yet! So don't act like we are.

I don't know why people who claim global warming is happening pretend as if it's the final truth. Don't forget that scientists are still researching and new information and arguments emerge - though most that you will hear are ones that support global warming because for following reasons:

-Does the media make MORE MONEY or LESS MONEY with fearful topics?
-Does a politician run on changing topics that people FEAR OR NOT FEAR?

HUMANS CAUSE EVERYTHING - IT'S TRUE!! We are apart of this world - apart of the ecology & nature. Of course we cause things - we live here damn it! Our inventions definately cause many changes - but whether or not our change is the singular catalysm to this shifting weather and climate - or even the question of if this climate change is natural in the grand scheme of things is still questionable and being researched.
Let's not forget that THERE IS NO NORMAL temperature. Earth is a changing and dynamic beast and trying to say that one temperature is more right than another just because it affects us is plain wrong.

 

[Yoda]

I have really not paid this any attention so I cannot say either way...sorry.

 

[Heneni]

The reality is that we are pumping lots of carbon dioxide gas into the air. There is no way of escaping the fact that it must have an effect on this planet. What effect it has can be debated and how much of an effect it has.

But while we are wondering what effect it has, shouldnt we be more carefull in the mean time.

True the earth has warmed up and cooled down many times before, but that was WITHOUT humans pumping loads of CO2 in the air.

If she is going to heat up again, that which we have done to this planet, will certainly change the way she heats up, and how fast she heats up.

Love
Heneni

 

[Sola'lor]

First I don't dismiss the fact that we need to clean up our act. We need to become more enviromentally aware and put those solutions into effect. I think that's the only logical thing to do.

BUt as far as global warming is concerned I think it's part of Earth's cycle. I also think it's very arrogant of us to believe we have the power to control the planet's climate. It's like thinking we are the only intelligent life forms in the universe. It's just a power trip. Of course if you asked my about my religious opinion on the subject it would be different.

'Global warming' is a misnomer, since some parts of the world won't get warmer, they'll get colder. That doesn't mean that a global climate change isn't happening.

I think we need a change.

 

[Heneni]

I also think it's very arrogant of us to believe we have the power to control the planet's climate. It's like thinking we are the only intelligent life forms in the universe. It's just a power trip.

I differ with your statement. I regard it as arrogant to think that our actions are not going to have an effect on our planet. If mother earth has some intelligence she will start processes to restore her balance, which we are interfering with. She could be warming up due to our negligence and she will do what is necessary to restore her balance. The question is will we survive it?

Love
heneni

 

[yossarian22]

I differ with your statement. I regard it as arrogant to think that our actions are not going to have an effect on our planet. If mother earth has some intelligence she will start processes to restore her balance, which we are interfering with. She could be warming up due to our negligence and she will do what is necessary to restore her balance. The question is will we survive it?

There is no freakin way that the insignificant amount of carbon we shove into the air can be the primary driver of a warming. Humans are accountable for some 3% of the CO2 in the air at last count. It will happen whether or not we continue. The only question is when. It is not worth setting development back to delay the inevitable, especially when the inevitable is not going to be a significant threat.

Yes, we should stop dumping crap into our air, but to act like the crap we dump into the air will kill us is moronic.

As an aside, the solar cycle appears to have reached its peak. A couple researchers are predicting global temperature drops. Looks like all that crap we put into the air may help us after all.

 

[Heneni]

Hello Yosh!

The earth in itself is what we call a closed system. In a closed system there can be what we call an equilibrium.

when this equilibrium is desturbed, According to Le Chateliers principles processes are set in place to restore the equilibrium.

The earth has been restoring her equilibrium since she was created. The only thing is that the same equilibrium is never reached.

So whether we are contributing 3% or 1% to the increase in CO2 gasses in the air, it is having an effect on the equilibrium. And ANY disturbance in the equilibrium results in processes that start to restore the equilibrium.

Now, since none of us are certain for sure how much we are really disturbing the equilibrium, (not only in CO2 gas emmisions but in all the other nasty things we do to this planet) all the disturbances , is definetly a disturbance that is noteworthy.

These distrubances are caused by US, and nature has successfully restored the equilibrium in a way that makes it still comfortable for us to live here.

But one day...perhaps, she will restore the equilibrium, but the new equilibrium wont be a comfortable place to live in.

Love
Heneni

 

[Somkid]

Well, the temperature of the planet is defiantly going up it was 114 here last week not including the heat index that put it around 122, who knows what the actual temperature is or rather was before the ice age from which we are still recovering. In any event I think we need to look at the real issue and that is that we are polluting the hell out of this planet out of pure laziness and ignorance not because we don't know what to do to stop it but because it is inconvenient to stop it. Maybe when gas hits $10 to $15 per gallon people will change their habits, I understand the USA is going to hit close to $7.00 per gallon this year and I say good it only goes up from there which means people can't afford to make pollution. I personally use about 2 US gallons of fuel a week and I feel bad about it, I'm actually looking for a house closer to where I work and I have changed my child's school to one close to where I work. I know we can't stop 100% but there are alternatives and lots of them. I don't think you need Al Gore or a climatologist to tell you what is happening in the world just look outside. Next: Food shortage coming soon...

 

[wednesday]

Somkid: Al Gore provides shock value propoganda. Have you ever noticed that the graphs he shows of rapid temperature gain and CO2 levels never have an X-axis, so the rate at which they are increasing is grossly exhaderated? He is right in his research, no scientist will say global warming is not an issue, but how much of as issue it is can be widely debated. In my opinion were only slightly disrupting the natural cycles of the planet, nothing much to worry about.

 

[Fluffy]

I didn't realise that people still debated that global warming is being caused by humans. How typical a view is this in America?

 

[Yerda]

I didn't realise that people still debated that global warming is being caused by humans. How typical a view is this in America?

Have you avoided the subject here?

 

[Reverend Rick]

I didn't realise that people still debated that global warming is being caused by humans. How typical a view is this in America?

No offense Fluffy, do you ever have a conversation with conservative Americans? Surrounding yourself by Liberals all the time will have that result on you. It is a typical view held by at least 100 million people here.

 

[BillBo]

Yossarian your initial post is totally without basis, many of the so-called points you make are blatently untrue, especially considering ice-core samples. Like many who renounce climate change you rely on 'evidence' that is just BS and does not stand up to scrutiny.

By the way I talk about ice-cores from some experience being an archaeologist who has studed them.

 

[Fluffy]

Have you avoided the subject here?

I've seen threads asking whether 9/11 was a government conspiracy and also claiming that raw carrots will cure cancer. Doesn't mean that these are views held by a significant portion of the American population.

No offense Fluffy, do you ever have a conversation with conservative Americans? Surrounding yourself by Liberals all the time will have that result on you. It is a typical view held by at least 100 million people here.

None taken but I don't really think it is fair to say that I surround myself with liberals. My friends are diverse in their political beliefs. I live in the UK so my contact with Americans (conservative or otherwise) is limited. Likewise, I'm not going to the cinema with any North Korean imperialists tonight.

In the UK scientific issues don't tend to be split across political divides because politics are irrelevant to scientific fact (in the UK). Our scientific viewpoints are determined outside of our political spectrum, generally. There is no reason to look at evidence as a liberal (here at least) and go "oh that is the correct conclusion" and come up with something different as a conservative. Liberals and conservatives tend to differ in their response to scientific discovery. For example, liberals in Europe favour solar, wind, water energy whilst conservatives favour nuclear energy.

If it is only American conservatives that hold such a view then I can see why you would make the assumption that it was similar over here. However, about 5 years ago, many people in the UK doubted that global warming was really happening and they appeared to be in equal parts Labour and Conservative. That just isn't the case any more. No politician from either side of the political spectrum believes that global warming isn't caused by humans any more.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I've seen threads asking whether 9/11 was a government conspiracy and also claiming that raw carrots will cure cancer. Doesn't mean that these are views held by a significant portion of the American population.

None taken but I don't really think it is fair to say that I surround myself with liberals. My friends are diverse in their political beliefs. I live in the UK so my contact with Americans (conservative or otherwise) is limited. Likewise, I'm not going to the cinema with any North Korean imperialists tonight.

In the UK scientific issues don't tend to be split across political divides because politics are irrelevant to scientific fact (in the UK). Our scientific viewpoints are determined outside of our political spectrum, generally. There is no reason to look at evidence as a liberal (here at least) and go "oh that is the correct conclusion" and come up with something different as a conservative. Liberals and conservatives tend to differ in their response to scientific discovery. For example, liberals in Europe favour solar, wind, water energy whilst conservatives favour nuclear energy.

If it is only American conservatives that hold such a view then I can see why you would make the assumption that it was similar over here. However, about 5 years ago, many people in the UK doubted that global warming was really happening and they appeared to be in equal parts Labour and Conservative. That just isn't the case any more. No politician from either side of the political spectrum believes that global warming isn't caused by humans any more.

Thanks for not taking offense.

Answer me one question, why are we calling it climate change instead of global warming now?

 

[Fluffy]

Answer me one question, why are we calling it climate change instead of global warming now?

I'm not entirely sure that there has been such a shift. I'm not sceptical that there has been one, I just haven't seen anything beyond my own observations to support this fact and that isn't a very fair sample to go on. In the UK it is normal to refer to it as global warming even though the two terms describe closely related but distinct phenomena.

However, my understanding is that both global warming and climate change are happening and it is not one or the other. One consequence of global warming is that some areas of the world will initially cool down due to the disruption of the climate that this will cause. Therefore, global warming should be understood to mean "trapping more heat energy from the Sun in the Earth's atmosphere" and not "the rise of temperature in every location on the planet". Global warming could alter the climate in a huge number of ways so thinking about the problem as "Global Warming" is misleading.

People just aren't very good at separating causes from effects. Ask the majority of people what Newton discovered and they will tell you "Gravity".

 

[Yerda]

I've seen threads asking whether 9/11 was a government conspiracy and also claiming that raw carrots will cure cancer. Doesn't mean that these are views held by a significant portion of the American population.

You appeared to be startled, and I assumed that you wouldn't have been if you had perused the threads here and visited the linked websites.

Likewise, I'm not going to the cinema with any North Korean imperialists tonight.

Little Englander, eh?

 

[Fluffy]

You appeared to be startled, and I assumed that you wouldn't have been if you had perused the threads here and visited the linked websites.

Yeah you are right I was a bit. I just meant I hadn't really paid much attention to them or rather I paid them the same amount of attention that I do the "Creationism is science" threads. I knew that there were people who were sceptical of global warming but I had thought that it was to about the same extent as people who believe 9/11 was organised by the American government.

Little Englander, eh?

I just think we'd all be better off if we stuck to our own kinds, ya know?

 

[Yerda]

I knew that there were people who were sceptical of global warming but I had thought that it was to about the same extent as people who believe 9/11 was organised by the American government.

I hear there are rather a lot of them (the 9/11 conspiracy folk). America is a big place I s'pose. I think the idea that anthropogenic climate change is bad science or political ideology receives considerable mainstream attention over there. I've seen links to FOX News reports, for example.

The most curious idea I've encountered (on here) is that the oil companies are manufacturing the affair in order to reap profits. Why they spend millions of dollars each year maintaining a denial industry to counteract this I haven't quite grasped.

I just think we'd all be better off if we stuck to our own kinds, ya know?

I suspected as much.

 

[OutOfTime]

First of all, it's not 9/11 conspirasits. It's ppl against the new world order who just seek truth and 9/11 is a good case of evidence about the NWO's agenda. Second, they don't think the government did it, they think certain agencies and ppl in teh government are involved, never the whole government. The general consensus is that it was done by MOSSAD (Israeli intelligence) but really, it was done by the new world order who're behind every one of these organizations.

The oil thing? No. Problem is you have to free energy, not conserve it. Most ppl who talk global warming are just activists and know little about science except being able to repeat facts they've heard. Also the reason it's believed to be a farce is the reasons behind it and who it motivates. The oil companies aren't going to deny it, the agenda is to promote global warming. It allows restrictions to be placed on people and companies...more control for the NWO or governments.

I don't wanna talk about it all in one post, personally I think it's a hoax if you look into it. I used to believe in it but I was pretty brainwashed about it. I still think it's important to treat the environment with care but don't believe in global warming. Look into chemtrails for the weather part of it btw.