Gnostic creation

[gnostic]

Between 2004 and mid-2005, I have taken interests in Gnosticism, and managed to a copy of James M. Robinson's The Nag Hammadi Library, though most of these translation can be found at Gnosis Archive.

It is the Gnostic myth on the Creation, which literally turn the Bible's Genesis on its head. :banghead3

So the main texts I have read are

• The Apocryphon of John,
• The Hypostasis of the Archons,
• On the Origin of the World,
• and The Gospel of the Egyptian

Each of these texts are fascinating it their own right. My main interests are these creation myths. However, they are not easy to understand, so I wouldn't mind if some Gnostics here could answer a few questions here.

But before I ask these questions in the next threads, how many here have these Nag Hammadi texts?

 

[gnostic]

So here are the questions relating to the Nag Hammadi Library.

First and foremost, what are the "aeon" and "archon"? Are they angels or gods?

It seemed that the Invisible Spirit and Barbelo created Autogenes (Christ), but if the Autogenes are their "only-begotten child", then who created the other Aeons (ie. 4 light aeons)? Did the Autogenes created them?

With Barbelo, she was called "the thrice-male", but what does that mean?

 

[Buttons*]

... oh Paul! Come here Paul, answer the questions for the nice man...
(i'll answer them to the best of my ability, but it's been a while since i read Gnostic texts, so forgive me if i'm mistaken)
I obviously own the Nag Hammadi texts...(Marvin Meyer/Willis Barnstone edit.)

From: Three Forms of First Thought:
~Barbelo is First Thought. As a woman and female principle she envokes Sophia, wisdom in her earlier descent with all her creation. She also corresponds to the son in the form of the logos, the savior.
The Secret Gospel of John talks about several main characters:
*The father of all- the One, invisible virgin spirit
*The divine mother- Barbelo, forethought, called mother-father, first human, holy spirit, triple male (i'll try to explain the 3 male thing later...)
*The divine child- self-concived, annointed
*The 4 heavenly luminaries (Aeons)- Harmozel, Oroiael, Daveithai, Eleleth (i personally believe them to be angels...)
*Afterthought- heavenly aeon who is sent as a revealer with connections to forethought, Sophia, and Eve (our heros...as it were)
*Geradamas- "adam the stranger" heavenly human
*Seth- Heavenly son of ^
*Sophia- divine wisdom from among aeons
*The Savior- forethought, or Yeshua
(there are other characters addressed, but they arent worth mentioning for the purposes of this post *smiles*)

So that whole "triple male" thing goes like this: "This is a term of praise, in which maleness symbolizes all that is heavenly, like the divine father, and maleness is amplified by being male three times over. Even Barbelo can be a triple male! Similar themes occur in the Gospel of Thomas and the Three Steles of Seth."

~ I believe (and i'm likley wrong) that the luminaries were created from Barbelo. She created the Aeons, but gave birth to the perfect human... make sense? (then agian, these are my theories, do not take them as fact)

... well, i've done enough damage for one day! hope this helps...

 

[gnostic]

Thank you, Buttons. :bounce

In regarding to the 4 luminaries (The Apocryphon of John, trans. Frederik Wisse, from Gnosis Archive)

"For from the light, which is the Christ, and the indestructibility, through the gift of the Spirit the four lights (appeared) from the divine Autogenes. He expected that they might attend him.

As you can see, I'm confuse who created them. It sounds like could be anyone of these 3 (original) Perfect Aeons who created the 4 light aeons. :bonk:

I have tried to get answer from Gnosis Archive's own forum, but no one use their forums in a whole year. When I tried to email them, my private mail that didn't have any junk or spam, now have them; obviously anyone who correspond with Gnosis Archive will be put in a damn mailing list. But I got no reply from them for my trouble. Because of my email is no longer private, I feel like Knockout them up.

 

[Halcyon]

... oh Paul! Come here Paul, answer the questions for the nice man...

Lol... what am I, a dog?

So that whole "triple male" thing goes like this: "This is a term of praise, in which maleness symbolizes all that is heavenly, like the divine father, and maleness is amplified by being male three times over. Even Barbelo can be a triple male! Similar themes occur in the Gospel of Thomas and the Three Steles of Seth."

Yup, exactermundo (shame you can't copy and paste straight from the book eh Buttons? The above quote from Buttons is in turn from The Gnostic Bible by Barnstone and Meyer). It seems a bit sexist to call spritual things male and material things female, but i imagine that it stems from the fact that women give birth and create new material life - I don't think its a slur against women, just not a very wise choice of allegory.

~ I believe (and i'm likley wrong) that the luminaries were created from Barbelo. She created the Aeons, but gave birth to the perfect human... make sense? (then agian, these are my theories, do not take them as fact)

No. Sorry Buttons (although it is all just myth and your theories are as valid as any other). In this version of the creation mythos, Barbelo gave birth to the annointed one aka the logos aka Christ. Geradamas was a joint effort of creation by the father, the annointed one and Barbelo (forethought).
The four luminaries and the twelve eternal realms emanated from the annointed one (Christ) through the will of the father.

Although this is just one version of the myth, if you go to certain Valentinian texts you find 30 Aeons emanating directly from the father. Christ being the male counterpart to Sophia in this latter case.

First and foremost, what are the "aeon" and "archon"? Are they angels or gods?

An Aeon is an eternal realm, it is the manifestation of the divine mind of the Unknowable Father aka The One e.g. Sophia is the Wisdom of the Father.

Archon literally means ruler, as in the rulers of this world. The head Archon being the Demiurge aka Yaldabaoth aka Rex Mundi.

In modern language Aeons are more like gods and Archons are more like angels.
The 4 luminaries are a mix of the two (gods and angels) being as they are angels of the unknowable Father, rather than angels of the Demiurge

 

[Buttons*]

Lol... what am I, a dog?

Yup, exactermundo (shame you can't copy and paste straight from the book eh Buttons? The above quote from Buttons is in turn from The Gnostic Bible by Barnstone and Meyer). It seems a bit sexist to call spritual things male and material things female, but i imagine that it stems from the fact that women give birth and create new material life - I don't think its a slur against women, just not a very wise choice of allegory.

No. Sorry Buttons (although it is all just myth and your theories are as valid as any other). In this version of the creation mythos, Barbelo gave birth to the annointed one aka the logos aka Christ. Geradamas was a joint effort of creation by the father, the annointed one and Barbelo (forethought).
The four luminaries and the twelve eternal realms emanated from the annointed one (Christ) through the will of the father.

Although this is just one version of the myth, if you go to certain Valentinian texts you find 30 Aeons emanating directly from the father. Christ being the male counterpart to Sophia in this latter case.

An Aeon is an eternal realm, it is the manifestation of the divine mind of the Unknowable Father aka The One e.g. Sophia is the Wisdom of the Father.

Archon literally means ruler, as in the rulers of this world. The head Archon being the Demiurge aka Yaldabaoth aka Rex Mundi.

In modern language Aeons are more like gods and Archons are more like angels.
The 4 luminaries are a mix of the two (gods and angels) being as they are angels of the unknowable Father, rather than angels of the Demiurge

...wow, i learned a lot today... thanks.
*yes you are a dog *smiles*
*So what if i copied directly from the book? Its the only explination i understood myself! *sticks out tongue*
*I knew i was wrong about that whole "Barbelo creating most stuff" theory... i knew that it all came from Silence... but i thought Barbelo was in charge of most things... i was wrong...
*My OWN theory for the triple male thing is that somehow people had to get across the fact that women could do all the things that man could in order to achieve perfection within themselves. There exists a perfect balance, and they needed Barbelo to come across as a heavenly female, which means her male-ness would have had to be equal to her abilities as a female. They made her equal to a male three times over to achieve that heavenly perfection... so yes, again, prolly another misplaced theory, but there it is...

 

[gnostic]

Thank you, Halcyon.
The passage in regarding to the luminaries -

The four luminaries and the twelve eternal realms emanated from the annointed one (Christ) through the will of the father.

now make much more sense.

So the aeon is both a being (god) and realm. That would take a little more to get my head around it, :bonk: but I guess I can look at it another way, like Gaia in Greek mythology, can be both an earth goddess and the Earth, at the same time. So that's !

 

[Buttons*]

...told you Paul would help...

 

[gnostic]

I am less familiar with Valentinian model.

So Silence is the Father of all and the great invisible spirit. Is Depth supposed to be Barbelo?

And why Silence and Depth? they are strange names.

 

[Halcyon]

I am less familiar with Valentinian model.

So Silence is the Father of all and the great invisible spirit. Is Depth supposed to be Barbelo?

And why Silence and Depth? they are strange names.

Unfortunately i don't know a great deal about Valentinian texts either, they're pretty complex.
Silence is supposed to be sacred in most religions, i think, the ultimate peace - and ultimate truth i guess.

 

[gnostic]

The Gospel of the Egyptians give a different account to Creation/Cosmogony, than to tAoJ, which I find even more confusing.

So is Christ = Autogenes = Logos = Adamas?

In AoJ, (Pigera-)Adamas is not Autogenes.

And what is Doxomedon-aeon?

I'm sorry if I ask too many questions, but James Robinson's book doesn't have any footnotes, so sometimes, it is hard to understand what their texts are saying.

 

[Halcyon]

The Gospel of the Egyptians give a different account to Creation/Cosmogony, than to tAoJ, which I find even more confusing.

So is Christ = Autogenes = Logos = Adamas?

In AoJ, (Pigera-)Adamas is not Autogenes.

And what is Doxomedon-aeon?

I'm sorry if I ask too many questions, but James Robinson's book doesn't have any footnotes, so sometimes, it is hard to understand what their texts are saying.

To be honest i read the gospel of the egyptions once, but didn't really like it. I'll re-read it and get back to you soon gnostic, unless of course Ashley beats me to it.

 

[gnostic]

:biglaugh:

You 2 make it sound like a (friendly) race.

I didn't like Egyptian Gospel as well, but it is an interesting comparison to that ofthe Apocryphon of John, but it was also based on the Sethian model. The other texts show the feminine principles play a more vital role than tGotE.

 

[Buttons*]

:biglaugh:

You 2 make it sound like a (friendly) race.

haha, no actually, i'm hoping he'll answer this stuff first... that way he cant laugh at me for messing up information... Cause Paul's a jerk like that... (*mutters something having to do with the "superiority" of english badgers*)

I didn't like Egyptian Gospel as well, but it is an interesting comparison to that ofthe Apocryphon of John, but it was also based on the Sethian model. The other texts show the feminine principles play a more vital role than tGotE.

You know, the Egyptian Gospels are really hard to get into. I read them when I was on a spiritual high, so it made sense at the time... but I havent read them in a while... You know, i should prolly read it again before responding to any more of this thread... (good idea Ashley... i know, i thought of it all by myself! ... shh, people are listening to us) > my personalities... *sigh*

Anyway! Egyptian gospels are really confusing. Out of the Sethian literature, I've always loved "Thunder"... it's comprehensible to me. But you asked about the Egyptian gospels... so ... i'm lost... *smiles* I'll read up more before i post again.

 

[gnostic]

I'd agree that The Thunder: Perfect Mind is wonderful.

It reminds me of The Hymn of the Pearl (my favourite). Although, the Pearl is not Gnostic, the theme is. The Pearl is mythical, mystical, allegorical and poetic. I'd prefer to reading something like the Pearl and Thunder than the Book of Revelation.

 

[Buttons*]

So is Christ = Autogenes = Logos = Adamas?

How I saw it: Christ is a title. Christ means annointed as well as messiah. Everyone has the oppertunity to become a Christ. Or "Christian" if you will, (little christ). This would imply that one has reached gnosis/perfect love/silence/understanding/perfection... take your pick. (from my understanding anyway *shrugs*) The whole thing with that is Yeshua was meant to be an allegorical story for Seth. Reasons for this: Yeshua was the manifistation of Seth, who was the personification/son of the perfect human, Adamas. Adamas lives with Silence, Barbelo, Sophia, and the other Gods in heaven, or in Silence... it seems as though he lives within himself, he is everything and nothing... all that confusing fun stuff. Logos is the divine word for God. Logos is the same person as Yeshua, Seth...who is the son of Adamas, who came from silence. (We're just trying to get back to the silence from whence we came.)

And what is Doxomedon-aeon?

I'm sorry if I ask too many questions, but James Robinson's book doesn't have any footnotes, so sometimes, it is hard to understand what their texts are saying.

I dont think i've ever seen the word Doxomedon. It's not in my translation... where did you find that word? I dont mind you asking questions, it actually gets me to read my Gnostic Bible, and that's always a good feeling. *smiles*

 

[gnostic]

My copy of the The Gospel of the Egyptians, come from James M. Robinson's book, Nag Hammadi Library (HarperSanFrancisco, 3rd completely revised edition, 1990), however this text was translated by Alexander Bohlig and Frederik Wisse. This translation is the same one found at Gnosis Archive, click here.
Doxomedon seemed to be a place, probably where the Invisible Spirit created Barbelo and Autogenes. But I am not sure. You'll 1st find in the 3rd paragraph (p 209), and again later (in next page of the book, p 210).

 

[Buttons*]

My copy of the The Gospel of the Egyptians, come from James M. Robinson's book, Nag Hammadi Library (HarperSanFrancisco, 3rd completely revised edition, 1990), however this text was translated by Alexander Bohlig and Frederik Wisse. This translation is the same one found at Gnosis Archive, click here.
Doxomedon seemed to be a place, probably where the Invisible Spirit created Barbelo and Autogenes. But I am not sure. You'll 1st find in the 3rd paragraph (p 209), and again later (in next page of the book, p 210).

*is giddy with excitement* Okay, i found out what it is! Thank Gods for footnotes! *smiles* Meyer's edition is so much better.... anyways...

Domedon= (possibly) "lord of the house"
Doxomedon= "lord of glory"

 

[Godfather89]

If i could suggest a book read this one: The Secret Book of John Annotated and Explained by Skylight Illuminations. Great book describing the Gnostic Creation Myth.

 

[gnostic]

Thanks, Godfather89.