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Gnostics: second death?
- Thread starter Moni_Gail
- Start date
Moni_Gail
ELIGE MAGISTRUM
Give me some time. I know there's several references to it, but I want to make my post as complete as possible. It will have to be tomorrow some time. My son is up and fussy (teething), so it looks like my hands are going to be full this evening.
ETA: There's quite a few Biblical verses regarding it, and a few in Gospel of Thomas (I think). Don't worry, you'll get direct quotes and verse numbers!
ETA: There's quite a few Biblical verses regarding it, and a few in Gospel of Thomas (I think). Don't worry, you'll get direct quotes and verse numbers!
Buttons*
Glass half Panda'd
it's all goodMoni_Gail said:Give me some time. I know there's several references to it, but I want to make my post as complete as possible. It will have to be tomorrow some time. My son is up and fussy (teething), so it looks like my hands are going to be full this evening.
ETA: There's quite a few Biblical verses regarding it, and a few in Gospel of Thomas (I think). Don't worry, you'll get direct quotes and verse numbers!
I'll look it up tonight too
Cynic
Well-Known Member
It's been a while since I read both canonical and gnostic bibles.Moni_Gail said:
Theoretically,
I would interpret Yaldabaoth as the the material, finite, amoral, objective and fake/illusive projection of God: the unguided and unconscious creative forces of nature and the physical universe. I interpret satan as the destructive aspect of the physical universe, suffering, and the imperfections within humanity: self gratificatoin, self deception, and especially human selfishness as a collective destructive force.
I would interpret the second death as some sort of end to physical manifestation itself, the elimination of satan, the perishing of the perishables. I would not interpret it as eternal condemnation of souls, despite the statement in revelations that those not written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.
But of course, I wouldn't really know, it's just my guess.
Godfather89
I am Who I am
Hell... Hell is different than what those fundamentalist promise you if you don't listen to them and what they say. Hell can be found in two places in my understanding as a Gnostic:
First of all it can be placed right in front of you, Hell is the belief and acceptance of the of the cleverly designed lie that there is separation between you and God. Hell is the state of being in a complete state of negativity (Eg: depression, ignorance, engagement in the seven deadly sins). That is hell its where the dead are according to Christ. To Christ the Dead are those who focus outside of themselves and are in negativity.
Secondly Hell as an afterlife state is IMO, is being ashamed of the unforgiven acts of negativity you inflicted upon yourself and others in life. You go to hell not for eternal damnation but rather as a place to grieve. Fire is symbolic as transformation, in hell you learn your lessons and realize the negativity you did while alive and grieve for your actions. When you are truly ready thats when God takes you to heaven... Of course, in Gnostic tradition if you know yourself your taken back to the Fullness, if you are still in ignorance than you are doomed to a cycle of rebirths in the world until you know yourself.
First of all it can be placed right in front of you, Hell is the belief and acceptance of the of the cleverly designed lie that there is separation between you and God. Hell is the state of being in a complete state of negativity (Eg: depression, ignorance, engagement in the seven deadly sins). That is hell its where the dead are according to Christ. To Christ the Dead are those who focus outside of themselves and are in negativity.
Secondly Hell as an afterlife state is IMO, is being ashamed of the unforgiven acts of negativity you inflicted upon yourself and others in life. You go to hell not for eternal damnation but rather as a place to grieve. Fire is symbolic as transformation, in hell you learn your lessons and realize the negativity you did while alive and grieve for your actions. When you are truly ready thats when God takes you to heaven... Of course, in Gnostic tradition if you know yourself your taken back to the Fullness, if you are still in ignorance than you are doomed to a cycle of rebirths in the world until you know yourself.
Gnosticvibes
New Member
I just watched an Amazingfacts.org TV episode and was, once again, blowing off what the guy said (if you know whom I'm talking about's "way of explaining the bible".. and yet I admire him in a certain way for trying to be compassionate), and I, through a search, came here to find brethren and sistren reasoning about this subject After thinking about it I truly feel the first death is "living in hell" but the second death is the "giving up on yourself".. the assuming this hell your feeling is "life".. is "it." I don't feel it has anything to do with the afterlife but rather is giving up on yourself here on earth. A mentality that you can "come out of" now or in your next life (or as soon as you learn.. or know better) I do appreciate your post though, Godfather89, despite my disagreeing, as it got me thinking..
Living and loving, loving and living..
After thinking about it I truly feel the first death is "living in hell" but the second death is the "giving up on yourself".. the assuming this hell your feeling is "life".. is "it." I don't feel it has anything to do with the afterlife but rather is giving up on yourself here on earth. A mentality that you can "come out of" now or in your next life (or as soon as you learn.. or know better) I do appreciate your post though, Godfather89, despite my disagreeing, as it got me thinking.. Living and loving, loving and living..
In Gnosticism, second death represents people going to Hell to get cleansed of the seven sins...in Hell, you get punished based on the way you act of each sins in this world (Earth)...say if you spend $ carelessly, you're faced before many shops and have your hands and knees on hot metal being burnt. After some times..probably years, hopefully you've learned your lesson. Then you'll be taken some place and Mother Nature will burn off that ego with fire(very painful!). You then will go off to another region and go through the punishment and cleansed off another ego again. At the end of the last cleansed, your Essence(Spark of Light or Soul) will be released and start the cycle of life again..someday reaching as Human once again.
However, as Human Beings, one has the ability or chance to cleanse themselves while on Earth. Those who do well will go to Heaven and not have to go through second death. If anyone is yearning to change, to get rid of their 7 sins(egos of greed, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, laziness, and pride). Pray everyday to God and you'll be guided to the right place to start your journey...as the Bible said "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you" Pray focusing on the heart sincerely.
However, as Human Beings, one has the ability or chance to cleanse themselves while on Earth. Those who do well will go to Heaven and not have to go through second death. If anyone is yearning to change, to get rid of their 7 sins(egos of greed, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, laziness, and pride). Pray everyday to God and you'll be guided to the right place to start your journey...as the Bible said "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you" Pray focusing on the heart sincerely.